Tennis Congress has some good videos. One of the things that Jorge Capestany says in one of those is precisely to moonball as one of the tactics to throw your opponent off their game if you are losing. So not buying LeeD's argument at all that moonballs will never bother him or players at his level. Of course, if anything is done too much players will adjust....but that goes for conventional strokes too. BTW...on TTPS's video, I didn't find him just staying and hitting moonballs from the baseline. I saw him come up to the net on a few short balls and finish it off. Again, I think he's on the right track.
Paradigm breakthrough on groundstrokes (Aim 6 ft. above the net)
- Thread starter TimeToPlaySets
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Dude - slicers and dicers don't give you anything to moonball in the first place. It's not that they are incredible at dealing with them. In tennis it takes two to tango. You can't moonball low slices effectively.. You know what you can moonball back - moonballs!
Let's imagine LeeD is serving - his serve is fast enough to prevent a moonball return - and its harder to hit a moonball return up close. Lee will get a normal return then slice and dice it..
Now lets imagine Lee D is returning. A TTPS low speed serve will get slice and diced back - again no moonball opportunity.
So no moonballs aren't a great solution for old timer slice and dicers..
Jorge Capestany's coached many more talented juniors than you or I have seen...players who play at a much higher level. If moonballers are throwing them off, LeeD would be no exception. As for Lee not giving him the chance to hit any, moonballs are effective because it's a defensive shot that can be played against any type. Hard hitting players might not get the pace to hit hard shots against someone who slices a lot. However, moonballs require no pace or bounce to execute. Also, winning at every level depends upon a combination of things. A hard serving, fit 4.5 who also mixes in moonballs, will not lose to other 4.5s just because he hits moonballs. Even as a pro, that's why Nadal doesn't lose just because he hits that shot, and he's faced S&V guys far better than any of us will ever see.
Here's the priceless irony for me in Lee mocking TTPS....Lee himself on many occasions has boasted about how he handles young hard hitting whippersnappers by not giving them pace. Does he feel that he is 'hitting like a girl' when he does that or does he feel that he's playing a smart junkball style that is throwing others off? So why mock TTPS for 'hitting like a girl'...and btw...what does that even mean? Lots of girls around who can crush LeeD.
No one is saying that moonballs are the be-all /end-all. Coach Capestany even includes slices/volleys in the same toolbox as things you do to throw your opponent off the game....things that Lee is okay with and proud of to use.
If a year from now TTPS is doing the same thing, has not increased his pace at all, maybe he's not progressed. However, from where he was a few months ago, I see a lot of improvement. Plus I don't just see him standing there and trading 100 defensive lobs. He's coming to the net on the short ball and finishing it off. Maybe many here feel they are better than him. It's relative though. There will be players who are higher ranked than you who feel that you hit too soft. It's not like 4.5 tennis is some sort of coveted holy grail that a 4.5 (or even a low 4.0 as Lee claims he is) needs to mock a 3.5 and feel superior about. TTPS has deserved criticism when he has come across and attacked others, but on this occasion, he's just posting a video of his progress, where he's trying to build his game from scratch, and his progression looks just fine.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Moonballs are used when I am pushed back by a high shot.
No more, no less. Great shot in the arsenal.
Moonballs are a setup shot.
The return of the moonball will likely be short.
Then I will move in and angle it away.
Few people know how to play them correctly, since players are embarrassed to hit them.
When they finally encounter moonballs, they try kill them, and can't hit them back,
so they cry about being beat by a pusher (instead of taking lessons and learning to play tennis)
No more, no less. Great shot in the arsenal.
Moonballs are a setup shot.
The return of the moonball will likely be short.
Then I will move in and angle it away.
Few people know how to play them correctly, since players are embarrassed to hit them.
When they finally encounter moonballs, they try kill them, and can't hit them back,
so they cry about being beat by a pusher (instead of taking lessons and learning to play tennis)
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Watch the video from :31 to :53
I do not consider those moonballs.
They are easy strokes that widely clear the net and land deep.
Nice reliable shots that keep me in the point.
Biggest problem for 3.5 is UE
If he hits a winner from the baseline, I will clap my racket.
The entire point of the rally is to draw the opponent deep & wide,
and set up for the kill shot, which will be a shallow weak return.
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TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Hitting moonballs when given a high deep ball is a great counterpunch.
Let's discuss the moonball in context, and how it sets up a winning shot.
Watch the point from 1:05 to 1:13
See how I return a moonball with the same?
First, I am in the point, which the most important.
Typical 3.5 will spazz out and try to overhead it or launch it into the fence.
You don't put away a ball that is over your shoulders, unless you've watched too much TV.
Next, notice his return of my moonball.
It is a slice. Why slice? B/c humans are all lazy on our feet.
It takes energy to move back. Most people don't, and they slice it back.
Saving energy is the brains #1 mission in tennis.
Later in the match, the more tired opponent is, the higher odds of a slice return.
Moonball counter will be a slice ....and will be shallow.
Then you move in and angle it away (at 1:10)
Let's discuss the moonball in context, and how it sets up a winning shot.
Watch the point from 1:05 to 1:13
See how I return a moonball with the same?
First, I am in the point, which the most important.
Typical 3.5 will spazz out and try to overhead it or launch it into the fence.
You don't put away a ball that is over your shoulders, unless you've watched too much TV.
Next, notice his return of my moonball.
It is a slice. Why slice? B/c humans are all lazy on our feet.
It takes energy to move back. Most people don't, and they slice it back.
Saving energy is the brains #1 mission in tennis.
Later in the match, the more tired opponent is, the higher odds of a slice return.
Moonball counter will be a slice ....and will be shallow.
Then you move in and angle it away (at 1:10)
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TimeToPlaySets
Legend
To flip the tables, watch the point at 2:05
This time, I am the one getting moonballed.
Notice how I am having a hard time returning it deep?
He keeps pushing me back.
Eventually, I hit back a short ball, and he easily puts it away at 2:33
I am handcuffed by these deep high balls, and he barely does any work.
For all the guys who think moonballs are for girls,
please tell us how you would return the balls during the 2:05 to 2:33 point.
This time, I am the one getting moonballed.
Notice how I am having a hard time returning it deep?
He keeps pushing me back.
Eventually, I hit back a short ball, and he easily puts it away at 2:33
I am handcuffed by these deep high balls, and he barely does any work.
For all the guys who think moonballs are for girls,
please tell us how you would return the balls during the 2:05 to 2:33 point.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
In summary, when I beat someone with my moonball returns,
and he posts here crying about losing to a moonballing pusher,
I will suggest he save up some money and take tennis lessons.
and he posts here crying about losing to a moonballing pusher,
I will suggest he save up some money and take tennis lessons.
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Mark Asher
Rookie
I dunno -- I'm not going to keep retreating due to a moonball. I'd probably lose the point but I'd lose it by either hitting the ball on the rise closer to the baseline with my 2-hander, running around to hit a forehand, or even moving up and hitting a volley.
I can't play too far behind the baseline because I'm 58 and I don't move like I did at 28. If I get too far back even a bad dropshot will beat me. I really have no desire to play tennis by trading moonballs, either. I will shorten the points one way or another.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
moonballing is not the same as pushing (ie. bunty strokes no topspin).. you're actually stroking the ball... and establishing a foundation for hitting out on the ball later. well done.
and you'll eventually need to learn to hit out (ie. drive through the ball more) because at 4.0 folks know how to punish you by hitting that ball on the rise (when you eventually hit it short).
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
I would again encourage you to play league matches to get more experience so you can understand your assumptions, or look beyond the pool of players you are in to what is really out there levels wise.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
FWIW, I have an excellent offensive high balls. Tons of speed and topspin. Mostly a doubles play, but in singles I throw them in when rallies get too low and fast. Like the off-speed pitch. Many are neutral balls, but it can certainly offensive for winners.
The shots in the video I would consider defensive or neutral for the most parts. More for setup to get a short ball or something I can move in and take early on the rise.
Good stuff though for rally balls in consistency.
The shots in the video I would consider defensive or neutral for the most parts. More for setup to get a short ball or something I can move in and take early on the rise.
Good stuff though for rally balls in consistency.
Do you actually play tennis? It sure doesn't sound like it. Anyone who has played tennis will tell you the easiest shots to moonball are topspin shots. Its because they bounce high and sit up enough to make it easier to moonball. LeeD doesn't play tennis like that - so you can't go moonballing him like that.
When you see juniors - pro women etc - moonballing - both of these players hit with straightforward topspin or flatish shots. You won't see people moonballing Taylor Dent or John McEnroe because it doesn't work on their game. Its a complete defense of that style..
OP doesn't have to take my word for it - he will figure it out if he plays more opponents. When you hit around with guys who are also taking lessons - they are all using the same 'structure' for their hitting as taught by the coach..
But guys you meet out in the wild - in league play - they don't play by those 'rules'. They have all kinds of quirky stuff. And big group of guys you meet are the old timers that slice and diced their way to the top..
LeeD is one of those guys.. They are hard to beat - if you are 3.0 - 3.5 and you can't use the topspin grinding you have been taught.
I suggest you go out and play more tennis. You will learn where and when to use moonballing and who it works on. Like I said - I love it. I moonball. But its not a tactic for LeeD type.
Remember tactics/strategy come into play when you are AROUND the same level. Sure perhaps Serena could beat LeeD moonballing. But she wouldn't bother - she would just blow him off the court with strong serves and winners off his serves.
But when you are AROUND the level of your opponent - you don't get to pick and choose and win any tactic. You have to meet them halfway -and go with what works against their game. And moonball is a **** tactic for guys who keep the ball low low and lower like a LeeD.
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TimeToPlaySets
Legend
well, moonballs are for girls,... who play on the wta, and can crush me
Amazing point! What everyone here will ignore is that when the ball came short, they attacked hard.
The 3.5 spazz would have hit the camera one the first moonball he tries to overhead winner from the baseline! LOL.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Did I ever say moonball is a tactic for every situation?
I will repeat it for a third time
When I get pushed deep with a high deep lob type of shot, then I will return that shot with my own high deep moonball. THAT'S IT.
Does this sound like I am going to moonball a drop shot, or slice, or a hard driving FH?
Look at the video and see what sort of shot I am RESPONDING to with my moonball.
Yeah 3.0 bro..wasn't talking to you. Just the other dude who was saying that Jeorge Capenstany or whatever preached moonballing and LeeD wouldn't be able to handle it..
Hope that's clear now.
Funny ding....
I was watching Dan Le in the finals of Berkeley City Open 4.0's. I think he posts under another name, and has hit with Shroud at the Fremont tennis courts.
Anyways, both guys were lobbing back and forth, and after the point ended, Dan looked over at me and shook his head in determination. Determination not to allow that to happen again.
He can volley, overhead, half volley, and play the net game, as he's at the top of 4.0.....or the bottom of 4.5.
I was watching Dan Le in the finals of Berkeley City Open 4.0's. I think he posts under another name, and has hit with Shroud at the Fremont tennis courts.
Anyways, both guys were lobbing back and forth, and after the point ended, Dan looked over at me and shook his head in determination. Determination not to allow that to happen again.
He can volley, overhead, half volley, and play the net game, as he's at the top of 4.0.....or the bottom of 4.5.
I can volley it to within 3' of the sidelines, usually deeper than mid NML, but I cannot run one step.....so getting to them all would be a challenge, and retrieving the ensuing deep lob a bigger challenge.
Don't be so blind to think I'm 4.0. I've played Matt, Yaz, Volynets, VitaminL, DanLe, RobFL, all better than 4.0, up to 5.0, and none would dispute I play at the 4.0 levels. You know nothing about my game except for one short bad video playing against a almost 5.0 level player with his DAD walking around behind coughing, turning on and off his video camera, and otherwise distracting me.
That's fine. But you just seemed really fast to criticize the guys moon ball game like it's easy to counter. It's not.
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It is easy to counter, if the moonballs have little spin or consistent spin.
It's hard to counter if the moonballs are coming with heavy topspin one time, heavy slice the next, some sidespin another ball, and backed up by a 4.5 level player who can run like the wind and consistently hit the sidelines as well as the deep corner's.
In this case, we're talking about a 3.5 level player who doesn't hit all those spins, who wants to advance to 4.0 using moonballs as a weapon.
It's hard to counter if the moonballs are coming with heavy topspin one time, heavy slice the next, some sidespin another ball, and backed up by a 4.5 level player who can run like the wind and consistently hit the sidelines as well as the deep corner's.
In this case, we're talking about a 3.5 level player who doesn't hit all those spins, who wants to advance to 4.0 using moonballs as a weapon.
Yeah but he is playing a guy like you. Can't run. Not that easy to counter if you cannot move. Low 4.0. That's close enough to 3.5.
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Oh, and don't say I haven't face those 10' high moonballs.
Just getting to B, or 4.5, I've faced a handful of player's who mini lobbed as their main tactic. But you know what? You play like you practice. Those frequent moonball shots also become moonballs when the player is attempting a passing shot, or worse, that moonballer LOSES his passing shots because he hit's sooo many moonballs during the previous points.
I've also recently faced a 5.0 level player who heavy topspin Moonballs his forehands, and he hit's forehands off both sides. Talking about a 5.0 who play's No.1 for his USTA League 4.5 team, and I"m a low 4.0. I can win close to half the points if I step into NML, take his heavy topspin loopy high groundies as a regular volley to a open corner, then pressure him to hit a great passing shot against an old fart who USED to play at his level.
If I stayed back like a 3.5 would, I'd win fewer than 2 out of 10 points against him.
Just getting to B, or 4.5, I've faced a handful of player's who mini lobbed as their main tactic. But you know what? You play like you practice. Those frequent moonball shots also become moonballs when the player is attempting a passing shot, or worse, that moonballer LOSES his passing shots because he hit's sooo many moonballs during the previous points.
I've also recently faced a 5.0 level player who heavy topspin Moonballs his forehands, and he hit's forehands off both sides. Talking about a 5.0 who play's No.1 for his USTA League 4.5 team, and I"m a low 4.0. I can win close to half the points if I step into NML, take his heavy topspin loopy high groundies as a regular volley to a open corner, then pressure him to hit a great passing shot against an old fart who USED to play at his level.
If I stayed back like a 3.5 would, I'd win fewer than 2 out of 10 points against him.
And yes, you are correct JJ. A 5.0 will beat a low 4.0 every day of the week.
But you're wrong about a low 4.0 being very close to a 3.5.
I've played well over 20 3.5's in the past 5 years, and while one did take a set off me while I was goofing around wearing levis and sandals (and my record against him is about 10-1 in sets, most sets him getting 2 or less games), most of them are bagels or worse. Worse, as in them not averaging ONE point per game against me.
You see, I used to play at the Open level, so while my body has gone downhill, I still know how to beat a lower level player. Some of the player's I play regularly against are former A/Opens, which means 5.5+ level player, who still are smart, still have the shots, but movement is slipping away. No way they, or me, can lose to a 3.5 level player.
But you're wrong about a low 4.0 being very close to a 3.5.
I've played well over 20 3.5's in the past 5 years, and while one did take a set off me while I was goofing around wearing levis and sandals (and my record against him is about 10-1 in sets, most sets him getting 2 or less games), most of them are bagels or worse. Worse, as in them not averaging ONE point per game against me.
You see, I used to play at the Open level, so while my body has gone downhill, I still know how to beat a lower level player. Some of the player's I play regularly against are former A/Opens, which means 5.5+ level player, who still are smart, still have the shots, but movement is slipping away. No way they, or me, can lose to a 3.5 level player.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
I'm being told by a successful 5.0+ D1 player that I should counter high deep balls (defensive shot as he calls it, b/c it damn well is not an offensive point) with a "high to high" high arc deep ball.
This flips a defensive position into an offensive one, if opponent's return of moonball is shallow.
The key is to hit the moonball and recover to center to take advantage of a short return.
I am no longer going to debate this with the interwebz.
I am sharing what works for me.
Other 3.5's and under can take it or leave it.
Do what you like.
This flips a defensive position into an offensive one, if opponent's return of moonball is shallow.
The key is to hit the moonball and recover to center to take advantage of a short return.
I am no longer going to debate this with the interwebz.
I am sharing what works for me.
Other 3.5's and under can take it or leave it.
Do what you like.
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Sometimes, it takes a long explanation to a particularly obstanent fellow to explain why things aren't always as they seem. One cannot always assume that a 4.0 is a newbie tennis player with 4 years total tennis experience. A handful of guys I play with, or against, weekly, were former A/Open level player's. Those guys played pro tour events, even winning a few, but have gotten old enough they can't run for 3 sets against tough opponent's. That's why they're 4.0 now.
You might ask, why does a player lose his ability? From age.
Consider this. My SECOND year of tennis, 1976, I was asked to join in on some weekly doubles at Golden Gate Park. The guy who asked me was Art Larsen, who won some pro tennis event back in the '50's, maybe USOpen? Look him up. One of the guys in the doubles group was George Ponticoff, who won a SF City Open event around that time. The 3rd was John Murio, who won the SF City tournament, OPEN class, a dozen year's previous. That's pretty high level company, but I didn't know them at the time, so I agreed.
Art would flummox me with lefty twist serves, and consistent low dippers. George had few weapons, but could slice wide to my weak backhand pretty consistently. Art was 55, George a bit younger, and I, right now, can run circles around them, hit 25 mph faster serves with good placement, cover more than twice the court, and get to twice or 3 times as many balls. I cannot run now!
John basically could not move at all, so after 3 months playing with them, it was always me and John vs Art and George, always, to even out the sets.
You say, of course .... NO WAY, just a lie and a tall tale. How can that be, LeeD has played tennis for only 2 full year's then.
Consider this. LeeD played 3 year's of football for his high school in the fall, and 3 year's of basketball for the school in the spring. I graduated at 16 year's of age, at 5.6" and 117 lbs. That's one year of JV football, and 2 year's of varsity football for a school with 3,300 students and 700 in my class alone. In 11th grade, I started both ways in the AAA Championship game for Abraham Lincoln High in San Francisco.
There is no way, me at 68 years of age, and what I consider "can't run at all", would I ever lose to a real 3.5 level player.
My normal singles opponent's range in age from 15 thru 52. The younger two opponent's are No.s ONE, and 3 for their high school in tennis.
I am low 4.0, but can play dead even with them any day of the week.
You might ask, why does a player lose his ability? From age.
Consider this. My SECOND year of tennis, 1976, I was asked to join in on some weekly doubles at Golden Gate Park. The guy who asked me was Art Larsen, who won some pro tennis event back in the '50's, maybe USOpen? Look him up. One of the guys in the doubles group was George Ponticoff, who won a SF City Open event around that time. The 3rd was John Murio, who won the SF City tournament, OPEN class, a dozen year's previous. That's pretty high level company, but I didn't know them at the time, so I agreed.
Art would flummox me with lefty twist serves, and consistent low dippers. George had few weapons, but could slice wide to my weak backhand pretty consistently. Art was 55, George a bit younger, and I, right now, can run circles around them, hit 25 mph faster serves with good placement, cover more than twice the court, and get to twice or 3 times as many balls. I cannot run now!
John basically could not move at all, so after 3 months playing with them, it was always me and John vs Art and George, always, to even out the sets.
You say, of course .... NO WAY, just a lie and a tall tale. How can that be, LeeD has played tennis for only 2 full year's then.
Consider this. LeeD played 3 year's of football for his high school in the fall, and 3 year's of basketball for the school in the spring. I graduated at 16 year's of age, at 5.6" and 117 lbs. That's one year of JV football, and 2 year's of varsity football for a school with 3,300 students and 700 in my class alone. In 11th grade, I started both ways in the AAA Championship game for Abraham Lincoln High in San Francisco.
There is no way, me at 68 years of age, and what I consider "can't run at all", would I ever lose to a real 3.5 level player.
My normal singles opponent's range in age from 15 thru 52. The younger two opponent's are No.s ONE, and 3 for their high school in tennis.
I am low 4.0, but can play dead even with them any day of the week.
Then those high school kids are terrible. Sorry. But its probably not a tennis hot spot so understandable they are low level.
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You're probably correct.
One is No.3 for Berkeley High. He's a sophmore, and only juniors and seniors are allowed in the top two slots. He's 6'8" and 185 lbs, was the alternate first baseman on the US National Junior Baseball team that was sent to play Cuba back in Feb. I guess he's just a clutz, certainly no athlete.
I was wrong about the other No. 1. I admit it!
SHE is actually No.2 for her high school, her younger sister is the No.1. I"ve played both, and the younger probably would beat me every time. We've played twice, her father pulling her out after 4-4 both times in the first set. She was NorCal ranked #4 Junior Girls 12's 2 year's ago, and is currently NorCal ranked Junior Gir's 16's No.12. Yes, California is not a great tennis junior state.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
I'm not sure why LeeD is spending so much time listing his tennis resume here.
With 44,000 posts, I assume you've posted video of a match.
Well, post the link, and save all the typing.
With 44,000 posts, I assume you've posted video of a match.
Well, post the link, and save all the typing.
I'll take a coach who has coached juniors who have actually won something, and has seen that strategy work, over your opinion. As for even higher level players, Nadal hits a ton of moonballs. S&V style should have been easy to beat him...correct? No one argued that moonballs are easier to hit on topspin shots. It doesn't mean one can't hit them off slices, and yes, I've played plenty to know that rec level players don't make crisp volleys consistently like pros or slice like Rosewall/Steffi all the time.
To me it goes back to the fact that TTPS is building something from scratch and there is a marked improvement in his game. Plus as he pointed out it's not as if most of his shots were moonballs. Lacking pace? Yes. Something he has to work on. His video clearly mentioned that the moonball was a defensive shot that he's learned. I don't see anything wrong with that. He never claimed that was his bread and butter strategy from now on and his video clip clearly showed him come up to the net and put away the short balls. Don't let your previous biases about him, affect what he just posted. There was no need to mock his game. If LeeD can beat him easily...that's fine. I saw Matt drubbing LeeD too. Should Matt gloat and say LeeD can't cut it and should give up his S&V style?
First of all. Norcal is not southern California. That is where all the players are. And 2nd . It's a 14 year old girl. The 14 year old girls with national ranking here on the east coast are beating up on 4.0 adults. I'm not sure of the level of a sectional ranking for 14 year old girls in norcal but I hope they can beat 65 year old men. If not they need more players over there. I'm sure the top norcal girls 14 and 16 national level players are awesome. Maybe the leeD opponent. But they should be able to beat a 65 year old man.
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She beats my doubles crowd, all younger 4.0's, about ONE's and TWO's. Sometimes bagels. Those guys are 24-50 year olds.
But I"m not a starry eyed over awed 4.0. I'm 4.0, true, but I had as weekly practice partner's, two the Louie sisters, the youngest and the oldest. Both winning in women's pro events. I used to date one of their peers, an Open level girl from Oakland, and I hit with her dozens of times back in the late '70's.
There IS a game which can work against top women, but it's NOT staying back with medium speed rightie spin serves., nor is it hitting topspin groundies over and over to their forehands.
Ok well then you are way better than the video of you in here. Those scores against typical 4.0 for a top 14 year old girl is what I would expect. I see it every week.
Those junior girls hit the hell out of the ball and are fast. They also hardly miss. Not sure how you are keeping up with your limited movement. But ok. You must have a lot of skill.
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S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Since I don't have a big serve or big GSs or heavy TS, the only way I can hang is:
- keeping the ball high, hope they can't take it on the rise, and hope for a short ball [there's a lot of hoping going on]
- keeping the ball low, short, and angled with slice and try to draw them in to the net and/or make them at least come forward to hit
- attack the net for all I'm worth and hope my net game is up to the task [there's that word again]
This is reasonably successful against Div III women; not so much vs Div I.
V
VexlanderPrime
Guest
Doesn't work anywhere cept maybe 3.0 2nd singles lol
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V
VexlanderPrime
Guest
lol assuming you aren't trolling you're about to waste a year on this garbage before you realize any decent 4.0 will tee off a winner on your pusher moonballs. Then youll relearn how to hit a FH
Srsly any mildly competent player who spends 1 practice session learning to hit shoulder height balls will destroy you.
fundrazer
G.O.A.T.
He's gonna change his mind next week and give us all another "golden nugget" tip on how to win at 3.5 tennis.
V
VexlanderPrime
Guest
Hitting 6 feet above the net is not developing any kinda of stroke lol
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Disagree. First of all, he's getting it in rather than swinging for the fences. That's a major improvement.
Second, it's a small step from hitting 6' above the net to something lower with less TS and more drive. At least now he's in the ballpark [or the tennis court, as it were].
V
VexlanderPrime
Guest
Haven't seen his vid for context I guess. I get your point but my philosophy is always don't spend time learning the wrong swing, practice the right one. If he needs to hit 6 feet (Feet!) above the net to keep the ball in the court he should be doing nothing tennis wise but drilling his groundstrokes imo
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
that i agree with.
to the OP's credit, that is what he is doing (just drilling the proper groundstrokes with topspin)
he's just taking baby steps, and sharing his progress along the way.
every junior starts out hitting topspin moonballs.
just yesterday i was watching a 5.0 #1s match featuring a hard court basher vs. a claycourter (on clay)... and even the basher was hitting high (5-6ft!) HEAVY topspin neutral balls, before getting a shoulder height short ball that he could drive.
5263
G.O.A.T.
Yes, it is a useful shot. Don't let other guys perspective on how the game should be played overly concern you. There are guys all around the country and even on tour, who are big time winners at this game where the avg player just can't see how they win with their style.
The moonball has a place in this game and serves excellent purposes in phases of your development tactically and technically. This shot is very under utilized by the avg player too, due to the attitudes against it. With experience, you will learn when it works for you and when it doesn't. I'd also suggest you work on a bit lower version that has a more biting topsin as well.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Well, that pretty much rules out 99% of people who play tennis.
Most people have literally never done a drilling session in their lives,
let alone a "1 practice session learning to hit shoulder height balls"
They just hit "naturally",
watch TV matches and assume pros are only pros b/c of genetics and reflexes,
they have no clue that pros actually "practice" and drill,
so they keep buying new rackets and strings,
and play at the same skill for decades.
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