Park Your Grievances Here!

silentkman

Hall of Fame
In comparing USTA notes with my wife, it seems like the grievance system is used a lot more by captains in women's leagues compared to men’s leagues where it is hardly ever used. An exception might be in the South where they seem to consider USTA leagues almost as important as the undue importance they give to college football. Where I live in laidback Southern California, USTA league is still considered social tennis and not anything more serious.

I played USTA leagues for about eight years and captained for about 4 years - never filed a grievance or heard of a grievance filed against any of the teams I played on. My experience is probably typical for the majority of men who enjoy USTA league play.

You may be right concerning the South. A USTA representative said that some sections are much worse than others. I played League Tennis for a good ten years or more and experienced more bad than good. ironically, its in the DMV. The bottom line is that some people will do anything to win.
 

Chalkdust

Professional
Every time I have agreed to an opponent’s spouse/relative sit on the bench to watch a social match, I have regretted it slightly. They invariably will make comments, talk, fiddle with their phone or move enough during points to be somewhat of a distraction. Also, I now have to think sympathetically about the wife/kid‘s emotions if I am trying to bagel or breadstick their husband/dad and that affects my focus to give my all on every point like I normally do.

I can’t see myself ever agreeing to it in a league match against strangers. The tennis court is too small a space for spectators to be on the bench without being a distraction. They can stand outside the fence and yell if they want, but at least it is not part of the playing area.
Counterpoint:
We do this for recreation.
I've had opponents bring their kids because they had no-one available to watch them. Would I rather they default and not play at all?
I've had opponents bring their wife/girlfriend because they had promised to spend the day together. Would I rather they default and not play at all?
I'd rather they watch from outside the court, but that's not always possible.
Tennis is fun and it's good that we take it seriously... just not *too* seriously.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Counterpoint:
We do this for recreation.
I've had opponents bring their kids because they had no-one available to watch them. Would I rather they default and not play at all?
I've had opponents bring their wife/girlfriend because they had promised to spend the day together. Would I rather they default and not play at all?
I'd rather they watch from outside the court, but that's not always possible.
Tennis is fun and it's good that we take it seriously... just not *too* seriously.

There is an issue you are overlooking. Kids can be injured on a tennis court. The chances are higher if they run around, but it can also happen when they are seated.

I am not a kid, but this happened to me. For some reason, several court entrances at my club were locked, so I had to go in through one particular court where a junior was training with a parent. Having a few minutes left before my reservation kicked in, I told them to continue and sat down at the bench and started pulling out my racket. The junior hit a hard shot which was supposed to be angled but instead it flew and hit me on the forehead just above my glasses. It hurt quite a bit, and I shudder to think what would have happened it had hit my glasses.

There are liability issues with people being present on a court when they are not supposed to be.

Every junior tournament we have at the club, there is always an issue with parents and siblings parking themselves in the space between 2 courts where there are actual seats. They are even allowed to be there, but the umpire will receive a complaint about the behavior of the people or the number of people who are standing after not being able to find seats. He goes there and asks the extra people to leave and cautions the ones remaining. Happens every year like clockwork.

Moreover, this is a league that OP is talking about, so it really does not fall into the category of pure recreation. When people argue about balls being 1 inch out, it is no use pretending that they are just having fun.
 

jviss

New User
The grievance will probably just end up being a warning for spectators interfering with the match. Lesson learned - never let anyone use a bench on the court while you are playing. It's a distraction by them just being there.
The other captains idea that it's the players fault for engaging with a spectator is such a joke.
 

Chalkdust

Professional
Moreover, this is a league that OP is talking about, so it really does not fall into the category of pure recreation. When people argue about balls being 1 inch out, it is no use pretending that they are just having fun.
If it's not recreation, then what exactly is it?
There's work, there are necessary chores, and then there are things we do for fun.
If you're not being paid to do it, it's not something that needs to be done, and you don't have fun doing it... then you really should be spending your time doing something else.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Counterpoint:
We do this for recreation.
I've had opponents bring their kids because they had no-one available to watch them. Would I rather they default and not play at all?
I've had opponents bring their wife/girlfriend because they had promised to spend the day together. Would I rather they default and not play at all?
I'd rather they watch from outside the court, but that's not always possible.
Tennis is fun and it's good that we take it seriously... just not *too* seriously.
^^ so true.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
If it's not recreation, then what exactly is it?

Different people have different ideas about recreation. There are 2 men who always play with each other and with no one else and they walk into the court the second their time starts regardless of who is on the court. Last week, a mother with 2 kids arrived on the dot and announced that time is up and they need the court. Most others would politely wait a minute and even allowing finishing a point, but many have been burnt again and again with players wanting to finish the game, not playing no-add but playing deuces and claiming that you gave them permission when you agreed, and juniors and their parents or coaches who start picking up balls when their time ends and not 5 minutes before. So it is recreation, but people are paying to pay leagues or at a club and it is their recreation, not someone else's. The correct thing to do is to follow the rules and not impose politeness demands on others when you are not following the rules.
 

jviss

New User
Counterpoint:
We do this for recreation.
I've had opponents bring their kids because they had no-one available to watch them. Would I rather they default and not play at all?
I've had opponents bring their wife/girlfriend because they had promised to spend the day together. Would I rather they default and not play at all?
I'd rather they watch from outside the court, but that's not always possible.
Tennis is fun and it's good that we take it seriously... just not *too* seriously.
Lets separate out what you are calling recreation from actual match play. There is a much different feeling you get when playing matches and there is a reason for that. Tennis leagues (which this post is about) are a form competition. Are the stakes high - absolutely not - but if you are respect your teammates/opponents you should treat it like a match. I think plopping a kid or family member on the court bench during a match is disrespectful. Even asking puts that person in a weird position. Especially if they are talking or trying to engage like the post mentioned.
 

Chalkdust

Professional
Lets separate out what you are calling recreation from actual match play. There is a much different feeling you get when playing matches and there is a reason for that. Tennis leagues (which this post is about) are a form competition. Are the stakes high - absolutely not - but if you are respect your teammates/opponents you should treat it like a match. I think plopping a kid or family member on the court bench during a match is disrespectful. Even asking puts that person in a weird position. Especially if they are talking or trying to engage like the post mentioned.
So match play is not recreation? Then why are any of us engaging in it? Strange perspective you have.

I do agree that you should respect your teammates and opponents. But I don't see how having a spectator on the bench is disrespectful to anyone, *as long* as that spectator is well behaved and not engaging with the players.

And back to the original post, it was never explained why the players did not want the spectators on the court. I think this is important context that was left out. If in fact the spectators were initially on the court and behaved badly, then yes this is acting in a disrespectful manner. But on the other hand if they were being respectful to that point and just wanted permission to watch from the bench, seeing as the post mentioned there was no viewing area, then I actually think the players were being disrespectful to say no without any real cause.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Lets separate out what you are calling recreation from actual match play. There is a much different feeling you get when playing matches and there is a reason for that. Tennis leagues (which this post is about) are a form competition. Are the stakes high - absolutely not - but if you are respect your teammates/opponents you should treat it like a match. I think plopping a kid or family member on the court bench during a match is disrespectful. Even asking puts that person in a weird position. Especially if they are talking or trying to engage like the post mentioned.
I am personally tolerant of someone bringing a spectator (or kid) to sit on the court. It doesn't bother me. In my own mind, it almost feels like I'm a pro in an important match, and instead of playing in an empty stadium, a few people cared enough to come.

But I can see why it bothers others, especially if it is a kid. Part of it kind of creates a presumption that the spectator can stay, so if the players withdraw the permission, they are the bad guys. They are implicitly accusing the spectator (especially a child) of not fulfilling their end of the bargain to not be a distraction. It's like when you go into a nice restaurant and the host takes you to a table next to the one with kids. Sure, everything might go great. But if it doesn't, you have a whole *situation* on your hands.

It's easiest just to say no from the jump.
 

am1899

Legend
So match play is not recreation? Then why are any of us engaging in it? Strange perspective you have.

I do agree that you should respect your teammates and opponents. But I don't see how having a spectator on the bench is disrespectful to anyone, *as long* as that spectator is well behaved and not engaging with the players.

And back to the original post, it was never explained why the players did not want the spectators on the court. I think this is important context that was left out. If in fact the spectators were initially on the court and behaved badly, then yes this is acting in a disrespectful manner. But on the other hand if they were being respectful to that point and just wanted permission to watch from the bench, seeing as the post mentioned there was no viewing area, then I actually think the players were being disrespectful to say no without any real cause.

Maybe there was bad blood to begin with. But, given the rule, it seems to me the players were within their rights to refuse to allow the spectators on the court - regardless of what reasons they may have had. Unless the players were overtly disrespectful to the spectators when they asked them not to be on the court, I don’t know that the spectators have a leg to stand on.

Now, having said that…I can absolutely see how players exercising this rule could ruffle feathers and potentially cause unwanted behavior from would be spectators.
 

DCNJ

Rookie
Maybe there was bad blood to begin with. But, given the rule, it seems to me the players were within their rights to refuse to allow the spectators on the court - regardless of what reasons they may have had. Unless the players were overtly disrespectful to the spectators when they asked them not to be on the court, I don’t know that the spectators have a leg to stand on.

Now, having said that…I can absolutely see how players exercising this rule could ruffle feathers and potentially cause unwanted behavior from would be spectators.

I know you weren't implying the opposite, but those ruffled feathers and unwanted behavior I would still put at the feet of those trying to watch from the benches--even if there was more words back and forth (well, as long as the players were at least somewhat reasonable upon first approaching the spectators and asking them to leave). That is, any escalation (within reason!) I would still fault the interlopers.

One thing that I'm a bit amazed at is USTA allowing spectators to be that close. College, for all it allows that the USTA at least frowns on and even would assign points (this will go down on your permanent record), doesn't allow any spectators (apart from the coaches or officials) to be within a half court of any play. If there is an open court adjacent to play, the other players can stand on it but they have to be at the centerline--and I think they also have to attempt to be on the side that their teammate is on. Note that spectators can be outside a fence, which would be a bit closer.
 
Top