Parting thoughts from Stefanos Tsitsipas as he leaves the US Open:

mwym

Semi-Pro
If this boy is to get well in his mind, to improve on his weaknesses and to play any role in tennis in years to come - he needs some competent help to make him understand why he needs to WANT to get away from his father. He does not seem able to do it on his own.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
I didn't see his press conference, but I'm fine with how he answered the question.
Yes, as discussed on many threads, rules need to be tightened re: MTOs, breaks, coaching, etc, but I just don't think he deserves the all-out feeding frenzy against him. Note: I'm thrilled that Alcaraz won, and Stef seemed gracious toward him at the end...ready to move on.
 

tudwell

Legend
I didn't see his press conference, but I'm fine with how he answered the question.
Yes, as discussed on many threads, rules need to be tightened re: MTOs, breaks, coaching, etc, but I just don't think he deserves the all-out feeding frenzy against him. Note: I'm thrilled that Alcaraz won, and Stef seemed gracious toward him at the end...ready to move on.
Yeah, I’m coming around to this. His whole taking an 8-minute break every match (sometimes two of them!) is ridiculous, but at what point does the criticism outweigh the offense?

I still don’t really like his whole on-court personality, but I also don’t like internet feeding frenzies. Then again, it’s hard to resist the call of a well-timed bathroom joke…
 

skip1969

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, I’m coming around to this. His whole taking an 8-minute break every match (sometimes two of them!) is ridiculous, but at what point does the criticism outweigh the offense?

I still don’t really like his whole on-court personality, but I also don’t like internet feeding frenzies. Then again, it’s hard to resist the call of a well-timed bathroom joke…
I'm with you. I mean, I couldn't care less if Tpass wins or loses. But he was sucking all the air out of the event this week with the the toilet break hysteria. At some point, the distraction threatens to overshadow the event itself. So now maybe he and his team can step back and re-evaluate how to navigate the tour without causing so much disruption. Today his father was warned for coaching during the match. I mean, they should try to fly a bit more under the radar.

In the end, he's not the problem. The problem is a bunch of vague rules and no real enforcement, and a bunch of players who are happy to push those rules as far as they can.
 

JustMy2Cents

Professional
Doubling down on your offence serves no purpose.
Tpass is being nicknamed sh!tsip!ss.

he can just say, I sweat a lot and it's tough to takeoff wet clothes clinging to you. I'll try and speed it up.

he'll get little sympathy/support if he doubles down and takes potshots at Andy for time between 2 serves as he's doing now.
 

vex

Hall of Fame
Stef learning a lesson everyone does at some point: Just because you CAN do a thing doesn’t mean you SHOULD. The rule has a loophole to abuse but somehow Stef was the only dummy on tour who decided to abuse it. What a moronic thing to draw everyone’s ire over. He could have jogged off to the bathroom, swapped his shorts in 2-3 minutes, changed his shirt on court, boom, same result only no problems
 

LETitBE

Hall of Fame
I'm with you. I mean, I couldn't care less if Tpass wins or loses. But he was sucking all the air out of the event this week with the the toilet break hysteria. At some point, the distraction threatens to overshadow the event itself. So now maybe he and his team can step back and re-evaluate how to navigate the tour without causing so much disruption. Today his father was warned for coaching during the match. I mean, they should try to fly a bit more under the radar.

In the end, he's not the problem. The problem is a bunch of vague rules and no real enforcement, and a bunch of players who are happy to push those rules as far as they can.
narcissists dont have a great deal in the way of social awareness
 

Omega_7000

Legend
I hate players that bend the rules....Nadal and Djokovic are one of those who have abused the time rule for ages.

I don't like the fact that Tsitsipas takes that long of a toilet break in almost every match but he is being treated like a murder criminal here compared to the treatment given to Nadal and Djokovic
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
When a player, his father and his coach are all known to be cheaters, this is what you get. No sympathy.
 

bnjkn

Semi-Pro
Stef learning a lesson everyone does at some point: Just because you CAN do a thing doesn’t mean you SHOULD. The rule has a loophole to abuse but somehow Stef was the only dummy on tour who decided to abuse it. What a moronic thing to draw everyone’s ire over. He could have jogged off to the bathroom, swapped his shorts in 2-3 minutes, changed his shirt on court, boom, same result only no problems
Exactly. Great post, thank you.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
Stef learning a lesson everyone does at some point: Just because you CAN do a thing doesn’t mean you SHOULD. The rule has a loophole to abuse but somehow Stef was the only dummy on tour who decided to abuse it. What a moronic thing to draw everyone’s ire over. He could have jogged off to the bathroom, swapped his shorts in 2-3 minutes, changed his shirt on court, boom, same result only no problems
It's the same deal with the serve clock. Rules have been lightly enforced over the years because there was no need for strict limits. The umpires could read the room and grant extra time or breaks when necessary. But then you've got people abusing the system on a daily basis and it forces their hand into strictly regulating it for everybody.
 

Hidious

Professional
Tsitsipas is trying to be classy, but the duration of his bowel movements is ruining everything for him. He clapped with the crowd when Murray left the court, recognizing his achievements, despite Andy's antics towards him, he waited and properly congratulated Alcaraz at the handshake despite the kid's bad manners in taking wayyy too long to get to the net, just laying on the court longer than what's acceptable... I don't get the amount of hate.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
I don't get the amount of hate.
How many minutes does Rafa waste during the course of a five set match with his micro delays on every point? Has anybody timed this? It must easily be 15 minutes.

But people are going to crucify ST for going 3 minutes overtime on a toilet break? Pure hypocricy.
 

Rozroz

G.O.A.T.
Tsitsipas is trying to be classy, but the duration of his bowel movements is ruining everything for him. He clapped with the crowd when Murray left the court, recognizing his achievements, despite Andy's antics towards him, he waited and properly congratulated Alcaraz at the handshake despite the kid's bad manners in taking wayyy too long to get to the net, just laying on the court longer than what's acceptable... I don't get the amount of hate.
for Alcaraz biggest career win it was understandable to have a bit of emotions for 5 seconds.. and yes Tsitsi was ok at this match. no complaints.
 

canta_Brian

Professional
How many minutes does Rafa waste during the course of a five set match with his micro delays on every point? Has anybody timed this? It must easily be 15 minutes.

But people are going to crucify ST for going 3 minutes overtime on a toilet break? Pure hypocricy.
You always help me see the sensible side of any tennis debate.

Just wait for your post and adopt the opposite position.
 

Spencer Gore

Hall of Fame
Tsitsipas gamesmanship has become increasingly obnoxious. I'm delighted he has been humbled by a youngster. It did make great theatre though -all the booing and hissing was like being at a pantomime.

The authorities really should have clamped down on the whole bathroom break abuse when Federer admitted using it to cheat at a slam over a decade ago. If they had made an example of him -instead of bowing and scraping to his every demand -we wouldn't have ended up with so many other players copying him.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
How many minutes does Rafa waste during the course of a five set match with his micro delays on every point? Has anybody timed this? It must easily be 15 minutes.

But people are going to crucify ST for going 3 minutes overtime on a toilet break? Pure hypocricy.
Care to elaborate? There is a timer on court so you are making this up.

Rafa keeps within a 3 minute time limit even when he goes off court at the end of a set to change his clothes. In Rio, he was rushing so much that he put his shorts on back to front. He realised this when he tried to put the ball in his pocket when serving in the first game after the break. At the end of the game, he asked Bernardes if he could go and turn his shorts the right way round, to which Bernardes replied, "I will have to give you a time violation warning". Rafa then had to change his shorts on court in full view of the cameras wrapped in his towel. This is why Bernardes was banned from calling his match for 10 months.


The commentators, yet again didn't know what happened.

 
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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Care to elaborate?
Rafa is well known for abusing the serve clock rule. No doubt Rafa is one of the players ST is referring to.

"When no one discusses other things such as players taking more time than they're allowed to take, that has been an issue for me in the past playing against these players, getting cold, not feeling my game, having to wait for more than 30, 35 seconds in between serves that I had — in one of my matches here I had to wait a very long time between first and second serve."
 

Swingmaster

Hall of Fame
Tsitsipas is trying to be classy, but the duration of his bowel movements is ruining everything for him. He clapped with the crowd when Murray left the court, recognizing his achievements, despite Andy's antics towards him, he waited and properly congratulated Alcaraz at the handshake despite the kid's bad manners in taking wayyy too long to get to the net, just laying on the court longer than what's acceptable... I don't get the amount of hate.
I don't think the fans hate him. They might boo a little to make him realize that it's not cool to pull those tricks. Then they mostly go back to cheering for him. Some players though, seem to really hate him. I think he's just one of those dudes in the locker room who isn't good at shooting the schit.
 

Backspin1183

G.O.A.T.
Rafa is well known for abusing the serve clock rule. No doubt Rafa is one of the players ST is referring to.

"When no one discusses other things such as players taking more time than they're allowed to take, that has been an issue for me in the past playing against these players, getting cold, not feeling my game, having to wait for more than 30, 35 seconds in between serves that I had — in one of my matches here I had to wait a very long time between first and second serve."
Who could it be?
 

tex123

Professional
Care to elaborate? There is a timer on court so you are making this up.

Rafa keeps within a 3 minute time limit even when he goes off court at the end of a set to change his clothes. In Rio, he was rushing so much that he put his shorts on back to front. He realised this when he tried to put the ball in his pocket when serving in the first game after the break. At the end of the game, he asked Bernardes if he could go and turn his shorts the right way round, to which Bernardes replied, "I will have to give you a time violation warning". Rafa then had to change his shorts on court in full view of the cameras wrapped in his towel. This is why Bernardes was banned from calling his match for 10 months.


The commentators, yet again didn't know what happened.

Come on. I'm a Nadal fan. Nadal has been abusing time between serves for years. Accept it.
 

tex123

Professional
Tsitsipas is trying to be classy, but the duration of his bowel movements is ruining everything for him. He clapped with the crowd when Murray left the court, recognizing his achievements, despite Andy's antics towards him, he waited and properly congratulated Alcaraz at the handshake despite the kid's bad manners in taking wayyy too long to get to the net, just laying on the court longer than what's acceptable... I don't get the amount of hate.
Well said.
 

ibbi

Legend
He makes decent points, and I like what he says about the fans being irrelevant when you're out there, but... Isn't he one of the players that takes too long between points? :-D Also, why did the time of his toilet break literally get cut in HALF last night? If it's not a big deal, and no rule is being broken? Surely he's not so dense as to not be aware that these kinds of extended breaks were a problem prior to the past month?
 

Terenigma

G.O.A.T.
Throwing shade at other players who take a long time between points, he's right about some players *Cough* Nadal *Cough* but its such an obvious deflect that i can't take it seriously. He doesn't like that you have to wait 30-35 seconds between serves? Well maybe players don't like to wait 7-8mins between sets either. Pretty sure a player will get colder at the change of ends if he's waiting that long as apposed to waiting an extra 10seconds between serves. Also it's not just the bathroom break with him, he's clearly getting coached during the match too and even got a warning for it against Alcaraz and how about that fake "MTO" he took vs Murray?
 

feetofclay

Semi-Pro
How many minutes does Rafa waste during the course of a five set match with his micro delays on every point? Has anybody timed this? It must easily be 15 minutes.
You think Rafa is the only one? Yes he was targeted but he was not alone in going over the time allowed.

An example of the way this rule was/is unfairly implemented. There are many other examples.

In a Rafa vs Sock match "Courier noted that Sock had failed to serve before the mandatory 20-second deadline between points 67 percent of the time, but had not been docked."
On the other side,
"Rafael Nadal was once again hit with two time violations, this time by French umpire Damien Dumusois, during his round of 16 victory over Jack Sock in Paris, one of which cost him a first serve and ended up leading to a crucial break of serve."


Tsitsipas's gamesmanship just changes overtime. Remember the racquet tapping when his opponent was servin. I think it was Shapovalov who called him out on that one. Then there were the shoes. Then he went through a phase when he questioned every call, even when it was obvious that the call was good. Gamesmanship is just an habitual part of his game.
 

SonnyT

Hall of Fame
Obviously your toilet breaks against Alcaraz were not long and leisurely enough, Stefanos.

PS: a guy shouldn't be known for, toilet breaks!
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
You think Rafa is the only one? Yes he was targeted but he was not alone in going over the time allowed.

An example of the way this rule was/is unfairly implemented. There are many other examples.

In a Rafa vs Sock match "Courier noted that Sock had failed to serve before the mandatory 20-second deadline between points 67 percent of the time, but had not been docked."
On the other side,
"Rafael Nadal was once again hit with two time violations, this time by French umpire Damien Dumusois, during his round of 16 victory over Jack Sock in Paris, one of which cost him a first serve and ended up leading to a crucial break of serve."


Tsitsipas's gamesmanship just changes overtime. Remember the racquet tapping when his opponent was servin. I think it was Shapovalov who called him out on that one. Then there were the shoes. Then he went through a phase when he questioned every call, even when it was obvious that the call was good. Gamesmanship is just an habitual part of his game.
Players like to show Rafa up over timing. At RG 2021, Norrie was rushing to serve within a few seconds of the last point then complaining to the umpire that Rafa wasn't ready to receive his serve but the umpire put him right saying that he should wait for a reasonable time before serving. Kyrgios also tries to get Rafa penalised for not sticking to the time between points when receiving by rushing him so it was hypocritical of Kyrgios to berate the umpire for not giving him enough time to use the towel in his match against RBA at the USO 2021. Nishikori took 11 minutes break in the Rio BronzeMedal match against Rafa and not one word was said about it.

Many times, Rafa has to put his hand up because the server tries to rush him.
 
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thrust

Hall of Fame
If this boy is to get well in his mind, to improve on his weaknesses and to play any role in tennis in years to come - he needs some competent help to make him understand why he needs to WANT to get away from his father. He does not seem able to do it on his own.
I agree that Stefanos needs a new coach. His father means well and perhaps was right for him before he rose to the near top. Unfortunately, the father spoiled his son and seems unable to control his negative habits.
 

mwym

Semi-Pro
Tsitsipas's gamesmanship just changes overtime. Remember the racquet tapping when his opponent was servin. I think it was Shapovalov who called him out on that one. Then there were the shoes. Then he went through a phase when he questioned every call, even when it was obvious that the call was good. Gamesmanship is just an habitual part of his game.
It confirms it's presence in various shapes and forms, but it is a contant - low level of general cognitive ability that cements mental underdevelopment - both cognitive and emotional. But it is always triggered and made devastating for a child by simultaneous abuse and neglect performed by narcissistic idiots as incompetent parents.

ST might not be a person with high IQ, but it was his upbringing that demands from him what he is not capable of that causes his immoral and stupid self damaging behavior.

This is a rather simple and pretty common case. Ask any licenced expert in psychology / psychiatry you trust.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
Invoking the insane 25 second rule as a way to deflect the fact that he has to leave the court every time he loses a set is the height of comedy. Give this man a Netflix deal.
The time wasted by Nadal and Djokovic by crossing the 25 second mark through the course of their match will be equal or probably greater in some instances than the toilet break Tsitsipas takes. If you're going to criticize Tsitsipas, then you need to criticize Nadal and Djokovic as well.
 

TennisD

Professional
The time wasted by Nadal and Djokovic by crossing the 25 second mark through the course of their match will be equal or probably greater in some instances than the toilet break Tsitsipas takes. If you're going to criticize Tsitsipas, then you need to criticize Nadal and Djokovic as well.
Sure, whatever, you can criticize them as well but my point was that it's a completely different scenario; we don't have to debate whether or not the 25 second clock is stupid (it is, playing fast or slow is part of the game), but Tsitsipas using it to deflect from his issue is insane because what we're talking about is not stealing a few seconds here or there between points but literally leaving the court match after match and intentionally stretching the amount of time he has allotted between sets with the clear intent of icing his opponents. These two things are not even in the same league and everyone, him included, knows that.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
And he has absolutely no business doing that. The rules of the ATP have been since 1933, "The receiver shall play at the pace of the server."

Period.
In 1933 there was no stipulated time between points. It came in in the 70s and it was 30 seconds to begin with. On the one hand, they have a timer ticking up to 25 seconds then on the other hand they say the server should set the pace. You can't have two rules for the same thing. The umpire told Norrie that Rafa was well within his rights to put his hand up if he wasn't ready.

Norrie was playing gamesmanship. He kept catching the ball toss several times before actually serving so Rafa didn't know when he was actually going to serve. Maybe if the server catches the toss that should be counted as a fault.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
I'm with you. I mean, I couldn't care less if Tpass wins or loses. But he was sucking all the air out of the event this week with the the toilet break hysteria. At some point, the distraction threatens to overshadow the event itself. So now maybe he and his team can step back and re-evaluate how to navigate the tour without causing so much disruption. Today his father was warned for coaching during the match. I mean, they should try to fly a bit more under the radar.

In the end, he's not the problem. The problem is a bunch of vague rules and no real enforcement, and a bunch of players who are happy to push those rules as far as they can.
Oh please! You're blaming the hysterical reaction over nothing on Tpas himself???

Let's hope you are never on any jury ever!
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Doubling down on your offence serves no purpose.
Tpass is being nicknamed sh!tsip!ss.

he can just say, I sweat a lot and it's tough to takeoff wet clothes clinging to you. I'll try and speed it up.

he'll get little sympathy/support if he doubles down and takes potshots at Andy for time between 2 serves as he's doing now.
He has every right to fight back and call out foolishness!
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
In 1933 there was no stipulated time between points.
Too many beers last night watching Carlos, of course you're correct here. (y)

Getting back to Tsitsipas, this illustrates his total narcissism:

"But if there is a rule that says there’s a specific amount of time that you are allowed to take, then I would probably try and follow that.”

He "probably" would try to follow the rule? What a tool.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Stef learning a lesson everyone does at some point: Just because you CAN do a thing doesn’t mean you SHOULD. The rule has a loophole to abuse but somehow Stef was the only dummy on tour who decided to abuse it. What a moronic thing to draw everyone’s ire over. He could have jogged off to the bathroom, swapped his shorts in 2-3 minutes, changed his shirt on court, boom, same result only no problems
Riiiiight, and her skirt was too short too...
 
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