Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

[tennissportsrog]

his style of play boring?

There’s an argument that this generation of men’s tennis is boring and I think it’s a valid one.

It’s not boring to see two great players like Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic compete in a final.


What is getting mundane is watching the same tactic in every single match of every single grand slam for the last five or six years.


Nowadays they all settle down and say “OK, this is going to be two hours of baseline rallies.” The guy who outlasts the other one wins. It’s taken a lot of the skill out of tennis.


They are not better all-round players than the likes of Boris Becker or Pete Sampras. Boris and Pete were baseline players, they were attacking players and they could do it against baseliners like Mats Wilander or Andre Agassi.


Now that was entertainment. You never knew which way it was going to go.


Nadal and Djokovic are exceptional athletes, there’s no doubt about it, but to say they are better athletes than past greats like Bjorn Borg and Stefan Edberg is just nonsense.


This is some crap drummed up by somebody and I think it’s an insult to past players. Modern players don’t dive around the net, they don’t deliver backhand smashes, they don’t have to twist and turn like past generations.


Could modern players do that? We don’t know. What we do know is that they are incredibly good at retrieving shots from the back of the court.


Are they better, quicker, more agile around the net? The answer to that would be no.


What today’s players do around the baseline is undeniably phenomenal. They have become specialists in that, but to say they are better athletes is disrespectful. I don’t buy it at all, not for one second.


The ITF and the ATP are doing a great job of marketing the game, but they need to look at what is actually happening on the court.


Is this entertainment? Is this good enough?



Roger Federer is my favorite player to watch, but there is no denying the battles between Nadal and Novak Djokovic have been incredible. This is a rivalry that could run and run.



For more from CNN Open Court’s Pat Cash, visit his official website.

worldsport.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/11/are-rafael-nadal-and-novak-djokovic-boring

 

[Chico]

Pat Cash is boring.

 

[FedererWinsWimbledon2014]

It is quite boring, Tsonga, Stan and Federer are exciting players.

 

[tennissportsrog]

Serena: "Hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing"


Q. Nadal is undefeated on hard courts this year and you're undefeated on clay. Patrick said this year balance was really important with your clay game. I wondered about transitioning from clay to hard courts, what the challenges have been?



SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, actually, it's a lot easier, the transition, because the hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing.

They were a lot faster. And now it's just so many more balls come back, and it's just almost basically playing on a fast clay court. I think the transition is a lot easier than it used to be.

------------------

 

[Rozroz]

now that's my kind if thread!
like fresh air !!!! ahhhh!!!

 

[tennissportsrog]

ROGER FEDERER. (was the 1st place)
2012


Q. Both McEnroe and Agassi said in the World Team Tennis match this July that tennis right now at the top, men’s tennis is the toughest ever. Do you think you four guys are the toughest maybe in history in terms of competing against each other and winning events?



ROGER FEDERER: I’d say no, but I don’t know. Just because you look back maybe 15 years, then you have Sampras, Edberg, Becker, and Agassi, I don’t know who else. Those guys weren’t good or what? Do you know what I mean?


You look back, further back, 20 years, and you have the Connors and the Lendls. Those weren’t good either? I mean, I don’t know. So for me I think that’s respectful.


It’s just different times and definitely more athletic, there’s no doubt about that. But then again we don’t play doubles. We don’t play mixed. Maybe we play less matches today because it’s more taxing, but we do play less best‑of‑five set tennis than they used to play. You can’t compare really.


but we have somewhat of a golden era right now. I feel that truly. It’s nice to see Andy making his move at the Olympics, nice to see Novak having an absolutely ridiculous year last year, and then Rafa and myself still being around. It’s definitely good times. Past that you still have great champions as well. It’s very interesting at the top right now, and the depth I think has never been greater than right now. There’s no doubt about that.

But then best ever? The four of us? That’s a really difficult call.




ttp://richtweets.com/2sloc

 

[tennissportsrog]

Nadal believes previous tennis eras cannot match the excitement generated by the current stars of the sport.



"Sampras versus Ivanisevic match, or one between those kind of players, is not enjoyable, It's not really tennis, it is a few swings of the racquet.


It was less eye-catching than what we do now. Everyone enjoys the tennis we play much more. I am not saying we are playing better tennis, just more enjoyable tennis. For me, in the past it was just serve, serve, serve."



atpworldtour.com/News/Ten...-Day-Five

 

[easywin]

I agree with variety missing, i think most people agree with it ...
I guess its the ATP trying to build up new superheroes winning everything on every surface.

But what always bothers me in these discussions is that people that prefer allcourt tennis with more net play, including pat cash as it seems, say :

The guy who outlasts the other one wins. It’s taken a lot of the skill out of tennis.

That sounds like todays players are one dimensional and not as allround skilled as past players ... okay, i can live with that, but then they say :

Nadal and Djokovic are exceptional athletes, there’s no doubt about it, but to say they are better athletes than past greats like Bjorn Borg and Stefan Edberg is just nonsense.

So in the end it comes down to :"modern players are less skilled and equally athletic than past players" which i think is insulting modern players in the same way, but i guess its okay if you turn the sword around instead of trying to find a realistic answer what players now are better/worse at than past players

 

[tennissportsrog]

Dull is the worst thing to happen in tennis.

But they're only the surface of the problem.

The real problem is the slowing down of surfaces brought to the world by arrogant stupid Toni.

 

[easywin]

The real problem is the slowing down of surfaces brought to the world by arrogant stupid Toni.

haha :roll: okay i wont come back to this thread

 

[Backspin1183]

Nadal is a very exciting tennis player unlike any other player. That's why people even those that don't follow tennis much like to watch him play.

 

[fatichar]

Are some of the old players jealous of the consistency of the top 4?

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

the nadal is the boringest player ever... he killed tennis.

 

[Rozroz]

the nadal is the boringest player ever... he killed tennis.

you gotta understand that people like you and me enjoy tennis in a different way than those who like Nadal's game. although i agree with you.
(it's not Nadal's fault btw- it's the slow courts!!! )

 

[6-1 6-3 6-0]

Dull is the worst thing to happen in tennis.

But they're only the surface of the problem.

The real problem is the slowing down of surfaces brought to the world by arrogant stupid Toni.

Careful, troll. Don't step out of character. The user you're pretending to be is supposed to have far more incoherent English than the kind you've posted here.

 

[Backspin1183]

you gotta understand that people like you and me enjoy tennis in a different way than those who like Nadal's game. although i agree with you.
(it's not Nadal's fault btw- it's the slow courts!!! )

LOL the courts are not that slow. Nadal would make 90s courts look slow with his style. He's just a kind not seen before in tennis.

 

[HRB]

To these points:

"Could modern players do that? We don’t know. What we do know is that they are incredibly good at retrieving shots from the back of the court."

"Are they better, quicker, more agile around the net? The answer to that would be no".

The answer is the same I've said elsewhere...."YOU PLAY THE GAME THAT PRESENTS ITSELF TO YOU"

These guys are the fittest and fastest...that is just fact, and any former player who can check there ego will concede that (J-Mac always does, love the honesty). That being said, given the proper training and nutrition these guys grew up with, the likes of Mac, Connors, Borg, etc...would be just as fit if not more.

So what I mean is simply that the current best players are in an era of slow, homogenous, extremely similar surfaces...which causes baseline endurance style play...hell...the ball checks up so high that if you did rush the net, by the time you get there the opponent has plenty of time to calculate a lob or pass.

Bring these guys, in their current state of fitness back in the proverbial time machine and you'll see plenty of twist, spins, and fast reactions at the net..trust me!

This being said, yeah it IS GETTING BORING. If you want more flatter, more aggressive, going for winners type of ball look no further than the top WTA players...it is exciting, risky, and depending on your "orientation" the "scenery" can be a welcomed added bonus!

 

[SLD76]

Serena: "Hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing"


Q. Nadal is undefeated on hard courts this year and you're undefeated on clay. Patrick said this year balance was really important with your clay game. I wondered about transitioning from clay to hard courts, what the challenges have been?



SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, actually, it's a lot easier, the transition, because the hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing.

They were a lot faster. And now it's just so many more balls come back, and it's just almost basically playing on a fast clay court. I think the transition is a lot easier than it used to be.

------------------

Welp, that halfway explains Nadal's utter dominance on his historically worst surface this year.

 

[Praetorian]

Nadal believes previous tennis eras cannot match the excitement generated by the current stars of the sport.



"Sampras versus Ivanisevic match, or one between those kind of players, is not enjoyable, It's not really tennis, it is a few swings of the racquet.


It was less eye-catching than what we do now. Everyone enjoys the tennis we play much more. I am not saying we are playing better tennis, just more enjoyable tennis. For me, in the past it was just serve, serve, serve."



atpworldtour.com/News/Ten...-Day-Five

Only a select few had serve serve serve serve. Is that how you categorize rios, agassi, courier, chang, etc? Certainly todays game is much more homogenized to baselines rallies, then the serving game ever was in the past. Getting past the server serve serve, their games were more entertaining because they also were more agressive overall. They played to win, not to not lose. Unfortunately, the strategy to not lose is the winning combination nowadays. For me the only points worth watching in the USO final, was when both nadal and novak tried to bash the balls for winners.

 

[Praetorian]

LOL the courts are not that slow. Nadal would make 90s courts look slow with his style. He's just a kind not seen before in tennis.

Public courts, nope, you are right. Please regale us with your tales of playing on these championship courts through the decades, and prove this board wrong.

 

[RFRF]

Totally correct by cashy nadal joker and murry have ruined our sport

 

[Fiji]

We need more players like Federer.

 

[Mustard]

If you find Nadal boring, you are not a tennis fan. Even Nadal haters don't find him boring, and they are kidding themselves if they say so. This rhetoric mostly comes from some past players or the bitter anti-Nadal brigade who can't stand what Nadal has managed to achieve.

 

[Russeljones]

Pat is an idiot. But he is telling the truth this time.

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

The real problem is the slowing down of surfaces brought to the world by arrogant stupid Toni.

It's Toni Nadal who decided to slow down every court in the world after year 2002 ? didn't know that :lol:

 

[fundrazer]

If you find Nadal boring, you are not a tennis fan. Even Nadal haters don't find him boring, and they are kidding themselves if they say so. This rhetoric mostly comes from some past players or the bitter anti-Nadal brigade who can't stand what Nadal has managed to achieve.

Okay, I guess I'm not a fan of tennis. We'll just completely ignore the fact that I play tennis on and off and watch/support/respect players now and from the past. There's more to it than just the tennis also, Nadal is just not interesting. He blabs about Goran being a boring player, but I'll take his personality and craziness over Nadal any day.

 

[tkoziol]

Serena: "Hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing"


Q. Nadal is undefeated on hard courts this year and you're undefeated on clay. Patrick said this year balance was really important with your clay game. I wondered about transitioning from clay to hard courts, what the challenges have been?



SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, actually, it's a lot easier, the transition, because the hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing.

They were a lot faster. And now it's just so many more balls come back, and it's just almost basically playing on a fast clay court. I think the transition is a lot easier than it used to be.

------------------

Courts are not getting slower. Stop saying this unless you have a source to back it up. What some Pro says is not a source. Educate yourself: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=476868

I believe that Andre Agassi is the GOAT time because he beat the Chupacabra in straight sets down in Mexico. I have no sources to prove this. No evidence whatsoever. I have more evidence proving that this never happened. Regardless, I'm going to continue to post in other threads about how Agassi is the GOAT because he beat the Chupacabra.

 

[Mustard]

Okay, I guess I'm not a fan of tennis. We'll just completely ignore the fact that I play tennis on and off and watch/support/respect players now and from the past. There's more to it than just the tennis also, Nadal is just not interesting. He blabs about Goran being a boring player, but I'll take his personality and craziness over Nadal any day.

Nadal's words regarding Sampras and Ivanisevic were taken completely out of context. And to call Nadal "not interesting" is ludicrous. No tennis player is loved and hated so much.

 

[10is]

Serena: "Hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing"


Q. Nadal is undefeated on hard courts this year and you're undefeated on clay. Patrick said this year balance was really important with your clay game. I wondered about transitioning from clay to hard courts, what the challenges have been?


SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, actually, it's a lot easier, the transition, because the hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing.

They were a lot faster. And now it's just so many more balls come back, and it's just almost basically playing on a fast clay court. I think the transition is a lot easier than it used to be.

------------------

Wow! RESPECT to Serena for not self-aggrandizing and telling it how it is!

 

[Fedinkum]

80s had exciting and boring players, too. I like Cash's game but blanket statement like his is just rubbish. A good tennis match is about close contest. Style of play is less important to me.

 

[crazyups]

Are the 2 best players in the world boring? Only in an idiot's world.

 

[Bdarb]

Are the 2 best players in the world boring? Only in an idiot's world.

I could not have been less excited about the final match up in this years USO. It's getting boring seeing the same three or four players with he same style of play every final for six years.

Would have preferred a wawrinka gasquet final a hundred percent.

 

[BreakPoint]

Are the 2 best players in the world boring? Only in an idiot's world.

By "best", don't you mean the "winningest"? Not exactly the same thing. And "best" and "boring" are not mutually exclusive. Don't you find the two best players in curling pretty boring to watch?

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

You have to admit Nadal/Djokovic finals always give great matches!
US open 2011, FO 2013, US open 2013...

Djokovic/Murray matches are much more boring in my opinion...

 

[crazyups]

By "best", don't you mean the "winningest"? Not exactly the same thing. And "best" and "boring" are not mutually exclusive. Don't you find the two best players in curling pretty boring to watch?

The best players in curling are boring because curling is boring. And the winningest current players are usually the best current players.

 

[fatichar]

The style where every point has huge advantage to one of the players is interesting, and the one where both are relatively on a level ground is boring?

 

[victorcruz]

whats more exciting? 50 aces or 50 winners?

 

[BreakPoint]

The best players in curling are boring because curling is boring. And the winningest current players are usually the best current players.

Depends on what you mean by "best". Best at winning does not mean best at everything.

Boring players can make any sport look boring.

 

[BreakPoint]

whats more exciting? 50 aces or 50 winners?

Aces ARE winners.

 

[Wilander Fan]

The rating in the US for a US Championship was less than 1. 0.6 without a 3 million viewers. Federer usually 2-2.5 but that is still not up there with the 80s where ratings could go over 5.

But TV ratings is not important as sponsorship. Ask the WTA that question.

No I did not watch. First GS final in about 10 years. There slow hard courts are killing the sport by favoring endurance over skill.

 

[RF20Lennon]

If you find Nadal boring, you are not a tennis fan. Even Nadal haters don't find him boring, and they are kidding themselves if they say so. This rhetoric mostly comes from some past players or the bitter anti-Nadal brigade who can't stand what Nadal has managed to achieve.

It's not that he's boring, he's very energetic but its just that he rarely hits winners and most points end in an unforced error from the other person. Its not not as pleasing to watch for me personally.

 

[easywin]

Why is everybody generalizing everything ?
Yes, there are certain matchups that are less pleasuring to most peoples eyes than others but how can you say that nadal is boring ?

The intensity he brings on court is second to none, he's defending amazingly well and hits jaw-dropping passing shots - its just that all courts play similar so defensive players have advantages.

Everyone saying nadal is boring clearly does not want to see fast carpet-like courts where a rally above 2 shots is a rarity throughout the whole season, neither someone wants to see winner/unforced-error ratios that are closer to 0 than to 1 throughout the whole season.

Please stop this black/white argumentation, its ridiculous :-?

 

[Backspin1183]

Nadal boring? Maybe if you don't prefer his playing style. But do remember he's a great crowd puller and is adored by millions worldwide. Fans travel across countries to watch him play.

 

[counterloop]

Nadal boring? Maybe if you don't prefer his playing style. But do remember he's a great crowd puller and is adored by millions worldwide. Fans travel across countries to watch him play.

Those must be some easily entertained people.......according to our tennis experts on this board.

 

[Bud]

It seems when Federer isn't winning his minions claim tennis is boring :lol:

 

[Mick]

It seems when Federer isn't winning his minions claim tennis is boring :lol:

maybe pretty soon they will stop watching tennis all together because it's too boring

 

[BreakPoint]

It seems when Federer isn't winning his minions claim tennis is boring :lol:

That's because tennis IS boring without Federer. There are many on this board who have already vowed to stop watching tennis once Federer retires, just like some have stopped watching women's tennis after Henin retired.

 

[BeGreat]

i used to despise baseline tennis. i loved the go-in-for-the-kill, aggressive tennis. high risk, high reward.

nadal completely changed my opinion of it. he is a monster. i can watch that guy all day.

 

[Bdarb]

It seems when Federer isn't winning his minions claim tennis is boring :lol:

I don't claim to be a Federer minion, but seeing every grandslam in the last five years and knowing there is realistically only four players who have any chance of winning it, or in most cases even making the final IMO is getting pretty boring. I guess that's the nature of things, they're the four best for a reason, but I wish the style of play up there varied a bit.

Nadal seems like a perfectly nice guy, but his style of tennis isn't that exciting after half a set to me. The points go on forever and are usually pretty anticlimatic. Same with Djokovic and Murray.

 

[glovesaves35]

All this Fed fan vs Nadal fan is just crap. Both are great, both are legends, both would be champions in any era. All folks want is some variety in the game but it always comes to people claiming butthurt. Focus please. Variety, thats all the tennis fan wants. Not variety of champions, just variety of play. If Wimby was old school grass I believe all of the big four would still find a way to win it. What would be different would be how they went about it. Too many of the top 50 play the same way but it isnt their fault, you do what works.