Pat Cash calls Fed out. LMAO @ Fed "Wawrinka took an MTO, so I took one"

-NN- said:
You seem thrilled about Fed bagging #18.



Really? lol
Click to expand...

Yep. I saw it on twitter. The tweet said, "that's a bit presumptuous." They also included a screenshot of the wiki page.

Grand slam results:

Australian open: 2009, 2017.

I would like to ask them how that worked out for them. LOL.
 
octobrina10 said:
:rolleyes:

2001:
C3bOSRJWEAAFfpP.jpg
Click to expand...
Lol, this guy is actually abusing the MTO rule since fu**ing 2001...:eek: WTF:confused:
 
metsman said:
2014 AO was fine..Nadal was actually pretty hurt(would probably have lost anyways because he was fine in the 1st set and still got wrecked) His serve and movement looked like crap.

2010 Wimby, 2011 RG, 2008 Hamburg/MC are the questionable ones. Most of the other ones are fine imo.
Click to expand...

Rafa injured his back at the beginning of the AO 2014 final. He was suffering from that back injury (facet syndrome) all year round.
RAFA in Nov.2014. "The facet joint located between my L1 and L2 vertebrae is slightly painful. [Journalist explains: It's a facet syndrome - inflammation of the joint located between two adjacent vertebrae]. In Australia, because of a bad movement, I pulled my back muscle and hurt the joint between vertebrae." ¤¤


Rafa had a medical treatment before is serve at the 2011 RG (the trainer put a bit of talc on his foot) and the 2008 Hamburg Masters. I wonder what's questionable about them.
 
Last edited:
Starting from the 3rd set I think Federer struggled a little bit when he had to stretch wide on the FH side, even McEnroe pointed that out. I'm sure he wasn't in serious pain but he certainly did feel some discomfort. Roger most likely didn't take MTO after the 3rd set because he wanted to maintain the momentum and capitalize on it in the 4th. Obviously after losing the 4th Federer wanted to receive treatment so that his adductor wouldn't bother him in the 5th set. He also might've used this time-out to calm himself a bit because he was very nervous I'd think. One thing I'm sure of is that it wasn't an attempt to get into Rafa's head or anything like that.
 
Pagoo said:
Understandably,some of the Nadal fans are reeling. They really thought they had this one. They were so sure (arrogant) they updated Nadal's wiki page before the match was over. The Beebs called them out for being so presumptuous.

Personally, this is my sweetest Federer victory ever.
Click to expand...
LOL, had no idea sewretchs was so quick on Wikipedia. I am impress.
 
I like gamesmanship and I commend Federer for using it. I believe that everything legal should be used/abused. This adds to drama and excitement.
 
-NN- said:
You seem thrilled about Fed bagging #18.



Really? lol
Click to expand...

I'm very happy fed got his 18th finally after so many attempts. He deserves it after all his hard work.

Point is about this MTO thing, is that everyone uses it and it is within the rules so it is not cheating to use it. I don't hold the MTO thing against Fed, my point is you can't hold nadals and djoks MTOs against them while Feds was totally okey in the eyes of ttw posters just cause he uses it less often.

I have no problem players using MTOs. They have the right to use it and if that bothers the opponent then they are at fault. Pretty simple.
 
RF-18 said:
I'm very happy fed got his 18th finally after so many attempts. He deserves it after all his hard work.

Point is about this MTO thing, is that everyone uses it and it is within the rules so it is not cheating to use it. I don't hold the MTO thing against Fed, my point is you can't hold nadals and djoks MTOs against them while Feds was totally okey in the eyes of ttw posters just cause he uses it less often.

I have no problem players using MTOs. They have the right to use it and if that bothers the opponent then they are at fault. Pretty simple.
Click to expand...

I'm not bothered about the MTOs, I was just mentioning it as an aside.

Time for #19. Whaddaya say?
 
-NN- said:
I'm not bothered about the MTOs, I was just mentioning it as an aside.

Time for #19. Whaddaya say?
Click to expand...

It's not like he will disappear after this performance. I expect Murray and Djokovic to have their say aswell, along with Nadal and a few outsiders. Will be an interesting tennis season.
 
RF-18 said:
It's not like he will disappear after this performance. I expect Murray and Djokovic to have their say aswell, along with Nadal and a few outsiders. Will be an interesting tennis season.
Click to expand...

Yep. The next "predict the next 8 major winners" thread will be a blast for sure, no?
 
RF-18 said:
I'm very happy fed got his 18th finally after so many attempts. He deserves it after all his hard work.

Point is about this MTO thing, is that everyone uses it and it is within the rules so it is not cheating to use it. I don't hold the MTO thing against Fed, my point is you can't hold nadals and djoks MTOs against them while Feds was totally okey in the eyes of ttw posters just cause he uses it less often.

I have no problem players using MTOs. They have the right to use it and if that bothers the opponent then they are at fault. Pretty simple.
Click to expand...

MTO , as the name implies , is for medical reasons only and to be taken at specified juncture

It is Not to disrupt opponent momentum by abusing it and taking when nothing bothers you or it was a toenail clip or when your opponent is going to serve

And taking MTO only 10 times over a whole career clearly implies you eespect rules and do not want to take MTO for every niggle.

What some of the other players do so often is clearly not the same
 
tennisaddict said:
MTO , as the name implies , is for medical reasons only and to be taken at specified juncture

It is Not to disrupt opponent momentum by abusing it and taking when nothing bothers you or it was a toenail clip or when your opponent is going to serve

And taking MTO only 10 times over a whole career clearly implies you eespect rules and do not want to take MTO for every niggle.

What some of the other players do so often is clearly not the same
Click to expand...

But federer said himself his MTO against Wawrinka wasn't due to medical reasons only, but cause Wawrinka took it. Also was sarcastic about the doctor doing magic.

So clearly fed did use it as tactical aswell.

You can't call out others and then defend someone doing the same thing just cause he has used it less often.
 
How about we treat the two MTO's as wholly separate incidents, m'kay? I was a little conflicted regarding the MTO during the final, but ultimately, once it's broken down, I don't think it was all that bad...even if Federer's actions are interpreted through the most uncharitable lens possible.

Let's ask and answer a series of questions. Was the MTO necessary? Perhaps not. Could he have gone without it? Well, he probably wasn't gonna keel over or retire from the match, but that doesn't mean he wasn't injured. Was there a teensy-weensy bit of gamesmanship? Ok, ok. Let's say there was; has Nadal made a habit of taking MTO's under somewhat dubious circumstances? Yes. Would he have done the same in Federer's shoes, if he thought it would have impacted the scoreline? Probably. Does Nadal circumvent the rules in other ways, i.e taking more than the allotted time to serve, and occasionally not playing to the servers pace? Yes. Did Federer's certain knowledge of these three factors partially influence his decision to take the MTO? Maybe, and if it did you can hardly blame him, given his opponents tendency to raise eyebrows by resorting to (superficially, at least) similar tactics. Keep in mind, again, I'm not denying that Federer was injured...but for the sake of playing devils advocate, I won't dismiss the gamesmanship claims outright.


Now, concerning the MTO in the penultimate match: OP and others are just pedantically parsing through Federer's words here. It's a waste of time to even address this. That said, I've been told I possess a preternatural talent for wasting my own time so here goes: Federer said nothing about the state of his injury. His statement seemed to indicate that Wawrinkas choice made him not have the same reservations he would normally have about getting an existing injury tended to during a match...unless you seriously think that Federer would admit to not being injured at all. Come on. He's arrogant, not stupid ;). And really, operating under the assumption that an injured Federer was following Wawrinka's lead, it's fair game; why let your opponent seek treatment for real-but-not-debilitating injuries while failing to do so yourself? Even somebody as bull-headed and gung-ho about that stuff as Federer (who almost never calls for the trainer) is putting himself at an insane competitive disadvantage by letting that happen.

The thing I will concede here is that the timing was conspicuous, in both cases. Fine, you win. A player with a few somewhat sketchy MTO's over the course of a 20 year career can definitely be likened to somebody who's had about a dozen comparable ones over a shorter span of time (all of which may have been legitimate, for all I know). Yes, Federer fans are flaming hypocrites for not condemning that cow-owning, Lindt-eating, neutral-country-inhabiting cretin.
 
Last edited:
Oh, and little Patty Cashew can shove it. He had some unsavoury things to say about Federer's future wife in the early 2000's, and I'm guessing Roger never gave him much time of day after that. Good on him if my assumption is true. That's not something a lot of people just let go.
 
Last edited:
Fellas, fellas. You have to remember that feder is a lot like Batman. He's fundamentally the good guy of the story, but when faced with the unrestrained and destructive nihilism of Rafa al Ghul and the Joker we accept that the rules have to be stretched a bit sometimes, and in fact we find him more complex and appealing because of it.

think about it. thenk u.
 
RF-18 said:
But federer said himself his MTO against Wawrinka wasn't due to medical reasons only, but cause Wawrinka took it. Also was sarcastic about the doctor doing magic.
Click to expand...
Aren't you twisting his words.
He said that Wawrinka should not mind since he took one as well.
Also, do you think he would say so openly if he had taken it for tactical reasons ?
You are taking something said lightly and using it against him.

Like he had joked about his toilet break in 2010, that he sat in the toilet waiting for the sun to go down before he came out. IN fact, he came out in the normal time allotted for a changeover after serve. But this was taken up by people here even two years later in 2012 after WO, and god knows how many more times, as though he actually took ten minutes inside.
 
Russeljones said:
Every advocate for Federer saying "but Nadal also has done it" is only lending weight to the insinuation that Federer exploited the rule.

Personally, I choose to believe his words about the pain getting worse since early in the tournament. Three 5-setters at 35 makes it all the more plausible.
Click to expand...

Agreed on both counts, but remember that this thread was started by a guy whose purpose was to call out supposedly hypocritical Federer fans. I think a bit of leeway can be afforded to FedFans for comparing Fedals MTO histories. ;)
 
Order in the courtroom!

If the jury would be so kind as to examine the following evidence:

Is it not true that my defendant mr feder goat, if his explicit wish was not injury treatment but merely to stall time and get a break between sets, could more conveniently have done a quote unquote "Nishikori" instead? That is to say, a fifteen minute crapper, also suspected to include a shower and spa.

Is it also not the case that, if his intention was to fake injury in order to rattle his opponent, he would have been wiser to take an on-court pedicure in plain view while writhing in pain, only to run around like a Rabbit on mephedrone afterwards, popularly called a "Djokovic"?

Your honor, jurors, does it not appear that the parsimonious explanation is that mister feder goat was simply in genuine need of a pair of competent hands on his groin?

I rest my case,

Case dismissed.
 
octobrina10 said:
Who is this player?
Click to expand...

I think you meant to quote yours truly, not the inimitable Senti.

To answer you, that player is none other than 18 time Grand Slam champion Roger Federer. I think he won one of those 18 titles this week, but I could be mistaken. Would you mind checking for me? While you're at it, if this is confirmed, could you tell me who he beat in the final?
 
Last edited:
TheFifthSet said:
....A player with a few somewhat sketchy MTO's over the course of a 20 year career...
Click to expand...
octobrina10 said:
Who is this player?
Click to expand...
TheFifthSet said:
...
To answer you, that player is none other than 18 time Grand Slam champion Roger Federer. I think he won one of those 18 titles this week, but I could be mistaken. Would you mind checking for me? While you're at it, if this is confirmed, could you tell me who he beat in the final?
Click to expand...

Fed turned pro in 1998 (i.e. less than 20 years ago) and I have found on the Internet more than 'a few' his MTOs.
 
Last edited:
octobrina10 said:
Fed turned pro in 1998 (i.e. less than 20 years ago) and I have found on the Internet more than 'a few' his MTOs.
Click to expand...

Oh, sorry. Should have been more specific. I meant junior and pro career. So, that's 19 years and 8 months. I rounded up. ;)

Nah just josh'n, you got me, I added about a year to his career on purpose. 20 is just such a nice, even number. Kind of like 18. Or 14, which is nice too, but significantly smaller than 18, so not quite as nice.

Anyways, please, do share those (I guess many?) sketchy MTO's. I'm afraid you will have to explain, in rich detail, why each one was questionable.

PS still waiting on the answer to the question I asked. I'm a big Federer fan and I dono if he added to his tally of majors this week.
 
In all fairness to Patrick Cash, he's also said:

1) Coaching during the a match is illegal i.e a coach telling you where to serve on match point in a GS

2) Shoulder bumping a player as you're about to lose a in a GS

3) Taking too long to serve

4) Consistently delaying the other player while receiving serve

5) Taking your own sweet time to get your *** to the court after the umpire calls "Time"

6) Always take an MTO when your opponent is about to clobber you
 
I thought it was bad form by Cash to try and pour cold water on Fed's victory. MTOs are legal and as such should not be questioned when they are used, too subjective to "wonder" if someone is really hurt or not or if the MTO is strategic. If you want to stop the potential abuse of MTOs or bathroom breaks, then give the players a fixed timeouts during the match just like in other sports. They can take the timeout for any reason, no need to justify. To me the MTO is essentially a timeout.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Omega_7000
Nadal And The MTO, Illegal Coaching, Time Wasting
6 7 8
Replies
361
Views
54K
junior74
junior74
skip1969
It's time to kill the Match Time Out (MTO) . . . or to overhaul it completely.
2 3
Replies
122
Views
8K
vive le beau jeu !
vive le beau jeu !
B
Did Cash cost Lendl Four Majors from 1984-1988?
2
Replies
95
Views
4K
jrepac
J
kishnabe
Funny and Interesting Article
Replies
3
Views
1K
813wilson
8
D
Federers backhand - a professional coach answers on quora..
2
Replies
57
Views
10K
KINGROGER
K
Back
Top