Patrick Mouratoglou discussed impact of Serena Williams : "SHE CHANGED TENNIS"

[Sunny014]

I mean it is simple, there is no hypocrisy from me.....

For me a very strong 3 slam year is still ahead of a NCYGS scored in a weak phase.

But since you are bringing in golden slams and such things I am also showing Serena's 2NCYGS that are 12 years apart.,

If you want to talk of winning many slams at a stretch to show peak then Navratilova's peak in the presence of a GOAT candidate (from her same age group) is my answer.

 

[dtl_lover]

I think in terms of impact Serena, Navratilova and Jean King are supreme.

Others come after them.

In terms of impact on women's tennis, I doubt anyone comes close to BJK. In terms of impact on play style, I think Clijsters has lowkey had a huge impact among players in 25 years. I have seen so many current players mention Kim as a reference to their HC play style

 

[ibbi]

French Srdjan.

 

[Sunny014]

Most Dominant player (s) of the decade :

1950 : Connolly - 9 Slams
1960s : Court - 16 Slams
1970s : Evert 9 Slams, Court 8 Slams and Jean King 7 Slams
1980s : Navratilova : 15 Slams
1990s : Graf 14* Slams and Seles 9 Slams.
2000s : Serena 10 Slams & Venus/Henin (7 each).
2010s : Serena 12 Slams

Serena was dominant in 2 full decades.

 

[moonpie]

Evonne Goolagong

Althea Gibson She was a classy player and person.

 

[Sunny014]

In terms of impact on women's tennis, I doubt anyone comes close to BJK. In terms of impact on play style, I think Clijsters has lowkey had a huge impact among players in 25 years. I have seen so many current players mention Kim as a reference to their HC play style

Good post.
True, Clijsters has many fans among girls....

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

The same style of tennis was played by Venus before Serena.

 

[MichaelNadal]

The same style of tennis was played by Venus before Serena.

Queenus

 

[roysid]

You just have to look at overweight Serena of today and pictures/videos of Steffi Graf at 39/40 (or even Navratilova at 39/40). Then you know who the athlete was/is.

Serena intimidated opponents because they never could be sure that a Serena in her rage would not shove a ***** ball down their ***** throats:
"I'm going to get you in the locker room for that. You don't know me." "(to the umpire) She better not come to the net again." "I'm from Compton, you know." (Serena Williams to Maria Jose Martinez Sanchez after she cheated in 2009 French Open 3R)
"You'll pay for that." (Serena Williams when Maria Sharapova hit her with an overhead smash in the 2007 Australian Open final)
Steffi Graf, however, had a true presence - an effective killing machine who could turn important matches around (won 4 slam finals when her opponent had serve for the match!).

Steffi Graf was regularly among the top 50 most-earning sports persons, as the only woman. Did Serena manage to do this?


Hopefully Morontoglou will be gone very soon as well.

I agree. Serenas behaviour and attitude is attrocius. You should also mention the 2009 Wimbledon semi against dementieva. Her antics and screaming was too bad

 

[Sunny014]

You just have to look at overweight Serena of today and pictures/videos of Steffi Graf at 39/40 (or even Navratilova at 39/40). Then you know who the athlete was/is.

Serena intimidated opponents because they never could be sure that a Serena in her rage would not shove a ***** ball down their ***** throats:
"I'm going to get you in the locker room for that. You don't know me." "(to the umpire) She better not come to the net again." "I'm from Compton, you know." (Serena Williams to Maria Jose Martinez Sanchez after she cheated in 2009 French Open 3R)
"You'll pay for that." (Serena Williams when Maria Sharapova hit her with an overhead smash in the 2007 Australian Open final)
Steffi Graf, however, had a true presence - an effective killing machine who could turn important matches around (won 4 slam finals when her opponent had serve for the match!).

Steffi Graf was regularly among the top 50 most-earning sports persons, as the only woman. Did Serena manage to do this?


Hopefully Morontoglou will be gone very soon as well.

Hingis never was popular.
Just watch the FO 99 final you you can see what people thought of this *****le.

Hingis never popular ???? LOL


Globally Highest Paid Female Sportspersons every year since 1990

1990 Steffi Graf
1991 Monica Seles (only year ever when a female tennis year was higher than any male tennis player that year)
1992 Monica Seles
1993 Stefi Graf
1994 Steffi Graf
1995 Steffi Graf
1996 Steffi Graf
1997 Martina Hingis
1998 Martina Hingis
1999 Martina Hingis
2000 Martina Hingis
2001 Martina Hingis
2002 Venus Williams
2003 Venus Williams
2004 Serena Williams
2005 Maria Sugarpova
2006 Maria Sugarpova
2007 Maria Sugarpova
2008 Maria Sugarpova
2009 Maria Sugarpova
2010 Maria Sugarpova
2011 Maria Sugarpova
2012 Maria Sugarpova
2013 Maria Sugarpova
2014 Maria Sugarpova
2015 Maria Sugarpova
2016 Serena Williams
2017 Serena Williams
2018 Serena Williams
2019 Serena Williams
2020 Naomi Osaka

Nothing exceptional about Steffi Graf

 

[wangs78]

Serena Williams and her persona turned me off from women’s tennis for 15 years. When her matches were on TV I purposely did not watch. So, yes, she had a big impact on women’s tennis for me.

I did enjoy watching her sister play though.

 

[R. Schweikart]

... But Graf's 93-96 dominance would not have come if Sales was not stabbed, so Graf is only dominant for 88-90 period as per me .... after that her superior arrived....

Why would Steffi's dominance not have come if Selas was not stabbed?
Any evidence for that?

 

[R. Schweikart]

If you want to talk of dominance at peak for ladies, then this is what you call dominance

Dominating singles and doubles all simultaneously for years and years, this is real power....She did this in the presence of a GOAT candidate Evert who was of same age group.

Exceptional hand eye co coordination from Navratilova

Steffi Graf won 20 singles slams from January 1988 to September 1996.
That is 20 slams within 8 years and 8 months. 20 slams in 104 months.
One slam every 5 months and one week. For almost 9 years.
This is the mother of all dominations.

I don't care for a competition where Shriver has 21, Zvereva 18 and G. Fernandez 17 titles.
Nice for Martina that she dominated this hit-and-giggle events no one watches for a few years. Could make some more dollars there.

 

[Sunny014]

Why would Steffi's dominance not have come if Selas was not stabbed?
Any evidence for that?

3-1 thrashing in slams that she got at the hands of a teenager in 90-93 period and that teenager was still 19.25 years old at the time of the stabbing, so once that teenager entered her 20s and Steffi would cross 24 at that time (Steffi was 4.5 years older to Seles) then Steffi would suffer more losses.

Hence her dominance would not have existed in 90s if Seles was not stabbed.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Most Dominant player (s) of the decade :

1950 : Connolly - 9 Slams
1960s : Court - 16 Slams
1970s : Evert 9 Slams, Court 8 Slams and Jean King 7 Slams
1980s : Navratilova : 15 Slams
1990s : Graf 14* Slams and Seles 9 Slams.
2000s : Serena 10 Slams & Venus/Henin (7 each).
2010s : Serena 12 Slams

Serena was dominant in 2 full decades.

Winning 20 slams in 8 years and 8 months.
Winning your 21st slam at age 27.
That is domination.

 

[Sunny014]

Winning 20 slams in 8 years and 8 months.
Winning your 21st slam at age 27.
That is domination.

A weakling who won 2 slams in 3 years in the presence of Seles who won 8 slams in that period has no rights to talk of the remaining slams she won from 93 after Seles was tragically removed from the picture.

Steffi's dominance has been declared invalid and fake..... Sorry.

 

[R. Schweikart]

I mean it is simple, there is no hypocrisy from me.....

For me a very strong 3 slam year is still ahead of a NCYGS scored in a weak phase.
...

The great Steffi won 3+ slams in 1988, 1989, 1993, 1995, 1996. Which is five years.
Navratilova won 3+ slams in 1983, 1984. Which is two years.
Seles won 3+ slams in 1991, 1992. Which is also two years.
Serena won 3+ slams in 2002, 2015. Which is again two years.

So Steffi with 5.
And the rest with 2.

This is actually the most interesting thing - the deeper you dig in the stats books the greater Steffi Graf becomes.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Most Dominant player (s) of the decade :

1950 : Connolly - 9 Slams
1960s : Court - 16 Slams
1970s : Evert 9 Slams, Court 8 Slams and Jean King 7 Slams
1980s : Navratilova : 15 Slams
1990s : Graf 14* Slams and Seles 9 Slams.
2000s : Serena 10 Slams & Venus/Henin (7 each).
2010s : Serena 12 Slams

Serena was dominant in 2 full decades.

I don't see any dominance in the 2000s.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Hingis never popular ???? LOL


Globally Highest Paid Female Sportspersons every year since 1990

1990 Steffi Graf
1991 Monica Seles (only year ever when a female tennis year was higher than any male tennis player that year)
1992 Monica Seles
1993 Stefi Graf
1994 Steffi Graf
1995 Steffi Graf
1996 Steffi Graf
1997 Martina Hingis
1998 Martina Hingis
1999 Martina Hingis
2000 Martina Hingis
2001 Martina Hingis
2002 Venus Williams
2003 Venus Williams
2004 Serena Williams
2005 Maria Sugarpova
2006 Maria Sugarpova
2007 Maria Sugarpova
2008 Maria Sugarpova
2009 Maria Sugarpova
2010 Maria Sugarpova
2011 Maria Sugarpova
2012 Maria Sugarpova
2013 Maria Sugarpova
2014 Maria Sugarpova
2015 Maria Sugarpova
2016 Serena Williams
2017 Serena Williams
2018 Serena Williams
2019 Serena Williams
2020 Naomi Osaka
Nothing exceptional about Steffi Graf

It was about popularity, not who won the most money, you clown.

BTW, to think that Hingis made more money in 1999 than Steffi is ridiculous.
Steffi was always a very private person and you can be sure that she never told anyone how much money she made (in the late 80s and early 90s she didn't even tell it to the taxman!).

 

[Sunny014]

This pic clearly shows how Steffi's dominance was finished by Seles who was 4.5 years younger and GUNTER PARCHE had to intervene to "gift" Graf some cheap Slams....

Vulturing at its finest by Miss Graf.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Serena Williams and her persona turned me off from women’s tennis for 15 years. When her matches were on TV I purposely did not watch. So, yes, she had a big impact on women’s tennis for me.

I did enjoy watching her sister play though.

I only videotaped her matches from about 2009 on.
And watched them only when Serena had lost.
The USO 2015 semi final video is still in my closet!

 

[Sunny014]

I will never accept Steffi Graf as a GOAT contender because of Gunter, if her slams were legit I might have accepted her but there is enough evidence to suggest that her 22 would have been 15 with Seles on 18+ at the end of the 90s. This is how natural course of history should have been but it was altered by an event which shamed Tennis.

So sorry Steffi fans, Serena and Navratilova are far ahead !!!

 

[boredone3456]

This is facts.

can't name any black women's tennis players before the Williams sisters, at all. Zina Garrison, maybe?

but it wasn't about their race, peak Serena is the most dominant athlete in comparison to the field ever. men's or womens. She was scary in a way no one else could be.


This is not facts.

Weren't Hingis and Kournikova rockstars in the late 90s before the Williams' really broke out? I mean having a GOAT level player be American certainly helped there but Anna K + Hingis deserve as much credit as the Williams do.

Re: Black Players: Althea Gibson in the 1950's. won 5 majors in singles and 11 overall, the first African American to win a major title.

I'm glad you mentioned Kournikova. Certainly Serena and Venus were heavily marketable, but when I think of a tennis player who really became a marketable asset, Kournikova was the first one that jumped into my mind. Certainly Serena has built massively on that. The woman has an empire. She's in how many different commericals and product endorsements? But I wouldn't say she was the first. Kournikova really was a driving force in that. Serena did arguably take it up several levels over the years though.

 

[R. Schweikart]

3-1 thrashing in slams that she got at the hands of a teenager in 90-93 period and that teenager was still 19.25 years old at the time of the stabbing, so once that teenager entered her 20s and Steffi would cross 24 at that time (Steffi was 4.5 years older to Seles) then Steffi would suffer more losses.
....

Steffi was 23 when Seles was stabbed, almost a pensioner.

What "3-1 thrashing in slams" in 1990-93 are you fantasizing about?
Steffi even won more points than Seles if you add the points won from all those four finals.

Anyway, conveniently you forgot
a) all 1989 matches (Seles too young)
b) all 1991 matches (Seles didn't care for non-slams)
c) all 1995-99 matches (Seles too stabbed)

 

[R. Schweikart]

A weakling who won 2 slams in 3 years in the presence of Seles who won 8 slams in that period has no rights to talk of the remaining slams she won from 93 after Seles was tragically removed from the picture.

Steffi's dominance has been declared invalid and fake..... Sorry.

Steffi won 21 slams in 1988-99, during Seles's career.

 

[R. Schweikart]

This pic clearly shows how Steffi's dominance was finished by Seles who was 4.5 years younger and GUNTER PARCHE had to intervene to "gift" Graf some cheap Slams....

Vulturing at its finest by Miss Graf.

8-6 slams in Seles favor, not bad.
But it is not about four years, sonny.
It is about a career.

 

[R. Schweikart]

... but there is enough evidence to suggest that her 22 would have been 15 with Seles on 18+ at the end of the 90s. ....

And where is the evidence?
That winning 7 of 9 slams within 2.5 years doesn't mean anything for the next 2 or 3 years has been proven already.
Do you want me to repeat it?

 

[Sunny014]

8-6 slams in Seles favor, not bad.
But it is not about four years, sonny.
It is about a career.

The great Steffi won 3+ slams in 1988, 1989, 1993, 1995, 1996. Which is five years.
Navratilova won 3+ slams in 1983, 1984. Which is two years.
Seles won 3+ slams in 1991, 1992. Which is also two years.
Serena won 3+ slams in 2002, 2015. Which is again two years.

So Steffi with 5.
And the rest with 2.

This is actually the most interesting thing - the deeper you dig in the stats books the greater Steffi Graf becomes.

93. 95 and 96 are not countable.

So they all have 2 each

Plus if we think logically, if Graf was good enough to get 5 while others were 2 each then why does Graf's slam count sit at lower than Serena's and just 4 slams above Navratilova? If if she so damn good then her overall count should be 30+

This shows us that her slam count is inflated...

 

[Sunny014]

Anyway, Serena is greater in numbers and as per forbes Graf was never that special ..... wonder why we are discussing Graf in Serena thread....

Serena rules ....

Case closed.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Re: Black Players: Althea Gibson in the 1950's. won 5 majors in singles and 11 overall, the first African American to win a major title.

I'm glad you mentioned Kournikova. Certainly Serena and Venus were heavily marketable, but when I think of a tennis player who really became a marketable asset, Kournikova was the first one that jumped into my mind. Certainly Serena has built massively on that. The woman has an empire. She's in how many different commericals and product endorsements? But I wouldn't say she was the first. Kournikova really was a driving force in that. Serena did arguably take it up several levels over the years though.

I can't remember to have ever seen Serena in a commercial or an ad.
Steffi, however, can be seen again and again in commercials even today.

 

[Kralingen]

I can't remember to have ever seen Serena in a commercial or an ad.
Steffi, however, can be seen again and again in commercials even today.

lmfao

your best troll effort so far, Schewikart.

 

[R. Schweikart]

93. 95 and 96 are not countable.
....

....
Plus if we think logically, if Graf was good enough to get 5 while others were 2 each then why does Graf's slam count sit at lower than Serena's and just 4 slams above Navratilova? If if she so damn good then her overall count should be 30+
....

Sadly Steffi had to undergo a reconstructive knee surgery at age 27 in 1997 (when she had won 21 slams).
Extrapolating (what you always like to do!) this until age 40 (Serena's current age) Steffi would have won 46 slams. That may seem a bit exaggerated but 35plus slams would have been very feasible - considering which clowns were able to win slams in the 2000s.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Anyway, Serena is greater in numbers and as per forbes Graf was never that special ..... wonder why we are discussing Graf in Serena thread....

Serena rules ....

Case closed.

You really think Steffi would have told this Forbes guy how much money she made....?
Seriously?

 

[boredone3456]

I can't remember to have ever seen Serena in a commercial or an ad.
Steffi, however, can be seen again and again in commercials even today.

at least in the USA, I have seen Serena in ads for the following
Gatorade
Oreo Cookies (her and Venus had a few ads alongside the Manning Brother of American Football)
Direct TV cable company (where they have her dressed as wonder woman)
some deodorant company...Suave? not sure
a migraine medication

Several others over the years. Maybe I'm being to USA centered, but at least in the USA she has been in a LOT of ads and has been a fairly high marketable asset to products.

Conversely...I don't recall ever seeing Steffi in a TV ad. Not saying she wasn't/isn't in them, just that I don't recall seeing any.

The only other player Other than her and Venus I remember seeing in ads are Osaka, Sharapova, and Kournikova.

 

[R. Schweikart]

lmfao

your best troll effort so far, Schewikart.

Maybe on regional markets? USA, Canada?
No one would recognize Serena in a commercial over here. So it would be moot to broadcast them.
Steffi however was quite marketable even in the USA.

 

[R. Schweikart]

at least in the USA, I have seen Serena in ads for the following
Gatorade
Oreo Cookies (her and Venus had a few ads alongside the Manning Brother of American Football)
Direct TV cable company (where they have her dressed as wonder woman)
some deodorant company...Suave? not sure
a migraine medication

Several others over the years. Maybe I'm being to USA centered, but at least in the USA she has been in a LOT of ads and has been a fairly high marketable asset to products.

Conversely...I don't recall ever seeing Steffi in a TV ad. Not saying she wasn't/isn't in them, just that I don't recall seeing any.

The only other player Other than her and Venus I remember seeing in ads are Osaka, Sharapova, and Kournikova.

Maybe you are "too USA centered"?
Wow, that would be something new for a poster from the USA ....

In Europe I remember Graf, Sabatini, Sharapova, Kournikova, Becker, Agassi, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic. Agassi being the only US player. But he indeed was a global star (same as his wife).
Serena seems to have had a more regional appeal.

 

[Sunny014]

Sadly Steffi had to undergo a reconstructive knee surgery at age 27 in 1997 (when she had won 21 slams).
Extrapolating (what you always like to do!) this until age 40 (Serena's current age) Steffi would have won 46 slams. That may seem a bit exaggerated but 35plus slams would have been very feasible - considering which clowns were able to win slams in the 2000s.

Extrapolating she would have won 0 and she won 0.

Courts were slowing down and Poly racquets were getting popular, she wouldnt have won anything just like Sampras got his buttocks kicked.

 

[boredone3456]

Maybe you are "too USA centered"?
Wow, that would be something new for a poster from the USA ....

In Europe I remember Graf, Sabatini, Sharapova, Kournikova, Becker, Agassi, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic. Agassi being the only US player. But he indeed was a global star (same as his wife).
Serena seems to have had a more regional appeal.

Least I am open to admit my view is a little more narrow than others...you don't need to be snarky about it....especially since you are one of the first to demand others be respectful? K? Thanks

 

[R. Schweikart]

Extrapolating she would have won 0 and she won 0.

Courts were slowing down and Poly racquets were getting popular, she wouldnt have won anything just like Sampras got his buttocks kicked.

Cheap excuses.
If Steffi had decided to soldier on Serena would have less than 20 slams for sure.
Or do you really think Serena would have won the "Navratilova Slam" in 2002/03 with Steffi still competing??

 

[coolcamden]

If you make the Time cover, that actually means something and is kind of a big deal.

Like Greta Thumberg?

 

[R. Schweikart]

Least I am open to admit my view is a little more narrow than others...you don't need to be snarky about it....especially since you are one of the first to demand others be respectful? K? Thanks

Me being "one of the first to demand others be respectful"?
What?
Any links??

 

[R. Schweikart]

Like Greta Thumberg?

Good old Thumy!

 

[Sunny014]

Cheap excuses.
If Steffi had decided to soldier on Serena would have less than 20 slams for sure.
Or do you really think Serena would have won the "Navratilova Slam" in 2002/03 with Steffi still competing??

Of course Serena would have won that regardless....

What makes you think Steffi can even beat an ATG who is 12 years younger ?

Are you for real ???

 

[Sunny014]

I wish Steffi had not retired and continued into 2000s, she would have been beaten so many times that today you would not be arguing with me on this.

People like Steffi, Borg, Sampras all left because they were horribly sorted out, not because they chose to walk away

Every champion retires when he/she is sure that there is no more wins possible, that is reality, there is nothing like too much success, ask Federer or Serena, both of them want more and thats why they are not retired, there is nothing like walking away when you can win more.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Of course Serena would have won that regardless....

What makes you think Steffi can even beat an ATG who is 12 years younger ?

Are you for real ???

Billie Jean King beat Navratilova (who is 12 years younger) several times.
Navratilova beat Steffi (who is 12 years younger) several times.
Navratilova beat Seles (who is 17 years young) several times.

Serena lost to Schnyder and Rubin in 2002/03. Needed 3 sets at the FO 02 & the AO 03 against Zvonareva and Loit.
Yes, I think a 32/33-year-old Steffi could have beaten Serena.

 

[R. Schweikart]

I wish Steffi had not retired and continued into 2000s, she would have been beaten so many times that today you would not be arguing with me on this.

People like Steffi, Borg, Sampras all left because they were horribly sorted out, not because they chose to walk away

Every champion retires when he/she is sure that there is no more wins possible, that is reality, there is nothing like too much success, ask Federer or Serena, both of them want more and thats why they are not retired, there is nothing like walking away when you can win more.

Again - what makes you think Serena could win 10 slams after her 30th birthday and Steffi zero?
That is insane to the max!
You should seek professional help. Maybe ask Osaka for her therapist's phone number.

Steffi was "horribly sorted out"???
In the last 12 months of her career Steffi was 11-8 win/loss against Serena, Venus, Davenport, Hingis, Capriati, Seles. The six dominant players of the next four years.
You are sick, there is no other word. Sad!

 

[Sunny014]

Billie Jean King beat Navratilova (who is 12 years younger) several times.
Navratilova beat Steffi (who is 12 years younger) several times.
Navratilova beat Seles (who is 17 years young) several times.

Serena lost to Schnyder and Rubin in 2002/03. Needed 3 sets at the FO 02 & the AO 03 against Zvonareva and Loit.
Yes, I think a 32/33-year-old Steffi could have beaten Serena.

33 yr old Graf would be bageled

1999	Indian Wells Masters	F	Hard	Serena Williams	Steffi Graf	6-3 3-6 7-5
1999	Sydney	R16	Hard	Steffi Graf	Serena Williams	6-2 3-6 7-5

Serena had only started in 99 and this was the result, you think in 02-03 when she was in her 20s she would give Graf any chance ??

Serena would have bludgeoned Graf

Graf is not as good as you think her to be .... she is quite overrated.

Be happy that Gunter gifted her many slams, or else she would have been on 15 today .... That is her level !!!

 

[R. Schweikart]

33 yr old Graf would be bageled

1999	Indian Wells Masters	F	Hard	Serena Williams	Steffi Graf	6-3 3-6 7-5
1999	Sydney	R16	Hard	Steffi Graf	Serena Williams	6-2 3-6 7-5

Serena had only started in 99 and this was the result, you think in 02-03 when she was in her 20s she would give Graf any chance ??
...

16-year-old Steffi beat Navratilova 6-2 6-3 in Berlin 86 and 17-year-old Steffi beat Navratilova 6-3 6-2 in Key Biscayne 87.
But in Tokyo 93 Martina beat 23-year-old Steffi in three sets.

15-year-old Hingis beat Steffi in Rome 96. But at the FO 99 Steffi beat Hingis.

And so on....

BTW, when Steffi retired in August 1999 Serena was just #11 in the WTA rankings. Steffi was #3.

 

[goldengate14]

He seems to be on a self-serving mission to pump up Serena’s legacy.

The guy is an idiot. And clueless about tennis and a woeful coach.

 

[Sunny014]

16-year-old Steffi beat Navratilova 6-2 6-3 in Berlin 86 and 17-year-old Steffi beat Navratilova 6-3 6-2 in Key Biscayne 87.
But in Tokyo 93 Martina beat 23-year-old Steffi in three sets.

15-year-old Hingis beat Steffi in Rome 96. But at the FO 99 Steffi beat Hingis.

And so on....

BTW, when Steffi retired in August 1999 Serena was just #11 in the WTA rankings. Steffi was #3.

Serena is a level higher in power then hingis/navratilova.
Graf in old age would have had no chance, it would have been a bloodbath.