Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Sean Dugan, Dec 13, 2004.

  1. Sean Dugan

    Sean Dugan Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
    I'll attempt to answer a question posed in my post in the References section. I thought this forum was more appropriate and I invite everyone to share their experiences, especially the less than stellar ones, so that we can all learn something. Thanks!

    Hi Sean, What do you mean by "chargeback"? Seems as if I heard this happen to someone on this board before. I ask because I am selling a $600 bike on ****, and listed Paypal as acceptable form of payment. Sorry to get off your original post.
    Thanks, Steve

    Paypal allows buyers to use of credit cards to pay sellers. So, for example, you do a deal, and the buyer pays you via Paypal with a credit card. Downstream the buyer decides to dispute the charge with his credit card company. The credit card company generally will stand by its customer, the card holder. They credit the card holder's account, and debit Paypal. Paypal responds by debiting your account. You then have to prove you shipped, etc. Paypal supposedly backs the seller if certain conditions are met. If you ship to a confirmed billing address (meaning the buyer's credit card billing address is consistent with his shipping address.) In some cases, due to the policies of the buyer's credit card issuer, an address may not be confirmable. And there's the rub. If you ship to an unconfirmed address, Paypal may not back you if the buyer disputes the charge. So, you may eat the money. There is a downside risk to using Paypal and accepting credit card payments. There seems to be less risk if source of the payment is a bank account because as in the case of a cashed check, a charge back is much more difficult to effect. Paypal does take anti-fraud measures, such as confirming email addresses (albeit anonymous email addresses like yahoo and hotmail) confirming bank accounts, credit cards, etc.

    I will say that in my case, I have used Paypal as both a buyer and a seller, and thus far have had no bad experiences. I would be interested in hearing the tales of those who had bad outcomes because I imagine I'm ignorant of Paypal's flaws. I'd love to hear some charge back stories.

    Many companies that have a very dominant market postion become difficult to deal with (ie, Microsoft, ****, AOL, etc.) I have had bad experiences with all three of those outfits because they have a "take it or leave it attitude", and it feels like you are dealing with the federal goverment when you do business with them. Paypal is giving me that vibe of late. No real surprise given that **** owns them.
  2. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

    Feb 24, 2004

    Paypal definately has a "take it or leave it" attitude. If someone pays you with a credit card thru paypal and decide to do a chargeback you are pretty much at their mercy. Seller protection is pretty much a myth. If the credit card company charges back paypal then they will get their money from you no matter what steps you took to comply with their shipping conditions. If you inquire for info, you get canned email responses and just try calling customer service and getting resolution from the person on the other end of the phone.

    If you go to the paypal topic on the e b a y chat board you can read some horror stories for yourself. Mind you most are complaining about fees, or shipping to an unconfirmed address is Asia/Europe (NEVER DO THIS). But read it. Interesting in the issues people have and the lack of interest from paypal.

    Don't get me wrong - paypal is extremely convenient. I use it to buy things. However, I am very hesitant to take it as a form of payment for large transactions. I take it from people on this board because 99% are genuine and you can easily leave a bad reference here.

    MVCHUN New User

    Mar 28, 2004
    I got ripped off trying to buy an XBOX with topspin and it took 6 months to refund my money
  4. Cruzer

    Cruzer Professional

    Feb 26, 2004
    Leafs Nation
    Credit card chargebacks are a fact of life for retailers particularly when it involves shipping a product to someone. Since individuals accepting payment via credit card do not have the same credit card verification capabilities as say Tennis Warehouse or Lands End and you are using an intermediary such as paypal to effect the credit card transaction then yes you are at the mercy of paypal to a certain degree. However paypal is not doing anything different than any other credit card processor would do to any retailer with a disputed credit card transaction. It is important to understand that credit card transactions are not guaranteed and if the card holder disputes the charge then unfortunately the seller has work to do to prove the charge is legitimate.
    The solution to avoiding credit card chargebacks is very simple, don't accept credit card payments when you sell stuff on ****. Otherwise if you are willing to accept payment via credit card then recognize that you have some risk.
  5. steebo

    steebo Rookie

    Feb 19, 2004
    Dalton, Ga. USA
    Thanks, I didn't know about that.
    Don't you wish there was an easy way of speaking to someone at **** and paypal? I would love to change my account from the premiere back to the basic that does not accept credit cards, but I can't figure out how.
    I have had only one bad deal, which was over a $15 racquet not sent to me, not **** or paypal's fault, but they were not helpful by any means.
    Sean, Thanks for the info, Steve
  6. sm-2004

    sm-2004 New User

    Nov 25, 2004

    I am from Canada and I always use my PayPal account on **** for transactions with US ebayers. I do consider my credit card as a protection. So a lot of sellers already lost me as a customer, because they did not want to accept my PayPal payment.
    I always check the feedback, though - **** is built on them. Besides, PayPal gave a huge boost to **** mostly because it gave regular people an opportunity to get payments from credit cards, which is fast and convenient.
    There is a risk to get ripped off for both sides.
  7. mlee2

    mlee2 Rookie

    Feb 22, 2004
    Until there's a better and more mainstream alternative, you guys have to take it up the @ss.
  8. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Feb 11, 2004
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    I'm sure that's pretty much what the executives at PayPal/e-bay are saying these days, as they high-five each other on the way to the bank. It's nice to be part of a monopoly.
  9. #9

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