PB serve

[RSJfan]

Here is my tip for pickleball instructors. Please stop teaching beginners the bowling ball serve. I know it gets people with no racket sports background up and going with getting the serve over the net and into the court relatively quickly but it also makes it difficult to ever develop a serve with power and control. Teach it like you’re hitting a FH groundstroke from a stationary position because that is what you’re doing.

And teach people to rotate their hips instead of arming the ball. Because arming the ball is not effective compared to a mechanically proper swing, because it puts undue stress on the body and because it’s grotesque to watch while waiting your turn at open play.

Thank you.

 

[puppybutts]

how dare you

 

[tennis3]

because it’s grotesque to watch

Thank you.

It's pickleball

 

[RSJfan]

It's pickleball

 

[vokazu]

They should use tennis racquets and tennis balls. More power and more deadly.

 

[SteveI]

Here is my tip for pickleball instructors. Please stop teaching beginners the bowling ball serve. I know it gets people with no racket sports background up and going with getting the serve over the net and into the court relatively quickly but it also makes it difficult to ever develop a serve with power and control. Teach it like you’re hitting a FH groundstroke from a stationary position because that is what you’re doing.

And teach people to rotate their hips instead of arming the ball. Because arming the ball is not effective compared to a mechanically proper swing, because it puts undue stress on the body and because it’s grotesque to watch while waiting your turn at open play.

Thank you.

Seems like you just hit the ball as hard as you can and land the ball as deep as you can? No? I just used a topspin FH drop feed as I might use to feed balls to a tennis student with decent skills. Played 3 games the other day and never missed the box. One ball was called out that was an ace..on the line. It is PB.. no?

 

[bobleenov1963]

Here is my tip for pickleball instructors. Please stop teaching beginners the bowling ball serve. I know it gets people with no racket sports background up and going with getting the serve over the net and into the court relatively quickly but it also makes it difficult to ever develop a serve with power and control. Teach it like you’re hitting a FH groundstroke from a stationary position because that is what you’re doing.

And teach people to rotate their hips instead of arming the ball. Because arming the ball is not effective compared to a mechanically proper swing, because it puts undue stress on the body and because it’s grotesque to watch while waiting your turn at open play.

Thank you.

Why do you have to watch them?

It takes YEARS of learning to hit an effective topspin FH groud stroke whereas it takes about two weeks for a complete beginner to know how to hit a PB serve. Most people who play PB start late in life without tennis background so it is extremely difficult to teach them how to hit a PB serve like hitting a topspin FH tennis.

That's why I always say that if you're an >=11.5 UTR tennis player, it takes you about three weeks to become a PB 5.5 DUPR singles. In other words, you can become a PB pro.

 

[treo]

 

[bobleenov1963]

Jack Sock is currently #10 in PB singles. Bouchard is currently #19. That's pretty good to me.

 

[I Dink Too Much]

Incremental steps.

The "bowling" serve is easy and quick to "master" for new players. There's nothing wrong with that. Also, I know some solid 4.0 players who still serve that way.

If their contact point is far enough toward their target, they can impart decent topspin with the bowling serve.

- Dink

 

[I Dink Too Much]

That's why I always say that if you're an >=11.5 UTR tennis player, it takes you about three weeks to become a PB 5.5 DUPR singles. In other words, you can become a PB pro.

Nope.

Simply not the case. Not in just 3 weeks. I'd like have someone point out any three pickleball pros who did this in 3 weeks.

11.5 UTR is roughly the equivalent of a 5.5 NTRP. If one applied themself, maybe they could reach the pro level of pickleball in 3 months.

- Dink

 

[bobleenov1963]

Nope.

Simply not the case. Not in just 3 weeks. I'd like have someone point out any three pickleball pros who did this in 3 weeks.

11.5 UTR is roughly the equivalent of a 5.5 NTRP. If one applied themself, maybe they could reach the pro level of pickleball in 3 months.

- Dink

I know a 22 years old locally in Northern Virginia. He was a 12 UTR tennis player who started PB for three weeks, and entered a local open tournament. He won the tournament, and beat a 5.0, a 5.1, and a 5.4 player along the way. You need to remember that this is SINGLES PB, not doubles.

 

[I Dink Too Much]

I know a 22 years old locally in Northern Virginia. He was a 12 UTR tennis player who started PB for three weeks, and entered a local open tournament. He won the tournament, and beat a 5.0, a 5.1, and a 5.4 player along the way.

Generalizing from a specific player? Not a good move.

And I asked for "any three" who did this....

You need to remember that this is SINGLES PB, not doubles.

How was I supposed to "remember" that? You only just revealed it.

- Dink

 

[bobleenov1963]

Generalizing from a specific player? Not a good move.

And I asked for "any three" who did this....


How was I supposed to "remember" that? You only just revealed it.

- Dink

You did not read what I said. This is what I said post #7: "That's why I always say that if you're an >=11.5 UTR tennis player, it takes you about three weeks to become a PB 5.5 DUPR singles. In other words, you can become a PB pro."

I can give you three specific players: Jack Sock, Donald Young, and the local player that I already mentioned. Sock has a 6.68 DUPR which means he started out at 5.5 after three weeks of PB training. Donald Young has a 6.3 DUPR which means he also started out as 5.5 after three weeks of PB trainig.

 

[treo]

Sock and Querrey have been playing pickleball for years before joining the pro tour. The men's field is very strong which is why Sock can't dominate while the women's field is much weaker which is why unknown ex tennis pros, Salome Devidze and Tyra Black, have beaten ALW in singles shortly after switching to pickleball. Donald Young was pickleball training for many months with Taylor Townsend before going pro pickleball. Tennis snobs who say that top tennis pros would dominate pickleball have been proven wrong with 3 time slam winner Sock and Wimbledon finalist Bouchard currently with a ranking below their best pro tennis ranking.

 

[I Dink Too Much]

I can give you three specific players: Jack Sock, Donald Young, and the local player that I already mentioned. Sock has a 6.68 DUPR which means he started out at 5.5 after three weeks of PB training. Donald Young has a 6.3 DUPR which means he also started out as 5.5 after three weeks of PB trainig.

You clearly have no idea how long Sock and Young were training in pickleball before they improved enough to try entering tournaments. The answer is ... MONTHS, not weeks.

(And I did miss your first post which stated Singles....)

- Dink

 

[I Dink Too Much]

A friend and instructor -- who competed in the Pro level, and won the Triple Crown in two pro tourneys in-a-row -- told me three years ago the tennis pros who move over to pickleball (almost all) spend nearly six months simply drilling. According to him, they don't want to experience the ignominy of flashing over to pickleball ... and bombing.

(Full disclosure: The two pro tourneys my friend entered were lower tier regional events. None of the "name" Pros played in them.)

- Dink

 

[bobleenov1963]

You clearly have no idea how long Sock and Young were training in pickleball before they improved enough to try entering tournaments. The answer is ... MONTHS, not weeks.

(And I did miss your first post which stated Singles....)

- Dink

I did ask Jack Sock at both PPA tour event in Bristol, TN, and again at the Virginia Beach how long it took him to to get to 6.68 singles DUPR. Sock did say that he beat a 5.5 DUPR singles player after two weeks of training PB. It definitely A LOT takes longer for Sock and Young to be good in doubles but for single PB, they easily beat a 5.5 UTR after two weeks of training.

 

[I Dink Too Much]

Sock did say that he beat a 5.5 DUPR singles player after two weeks of training PB.

Many times Sam Querrey has stated he and Sock played a lot of pickleball together long before either decided to pursue the pro circuit. Sock *may* have answered your question the way you report. If he did, he discounted many many visits to the courts with Sam.

The second player is your mysterious "friend"....

I have no idea how you magically moved Young into this discussion. His entry into pickleball (Singles) was rough ... almost laughable. I'll admit he impressed me with his tenacity and improvement.

- Dink

 

[bobleenov1963]

Many times Sam Querrey has stated he and Sock played a lot of pickleball together long before either decided to pursue the pro circuit. Sock *may* have answered your question the way you report. If he did, he discounted many many visits to the courts with Sam.

The second player is your mysterious "friend"....

I have no idea how you magically moved Young into this discussion. His entry into pickleball (Singles) was rough ... almost laughable. I'll admit he impressed me with his tenacity and improvement.

- Dink

Because Donald Young currently has 6.305 in DUPR singles rating. It took him a couple of weeks of training to beat a 5.5 DUPR player. As I've said before, it doesn't take much for a former ATP player to beat a 5.5 DUPR player in Singles.

 

[sureshs]

Do you guys bounce the ball before the serve? I don't.

 

[SteveI]

Do you guys bounce the ball before the serve? I don't.

nope...tbf.. I just hit a topspin FH as hard as I can as deep as I can. Dead ball feed in tennis..

 

[bobleenov1963]

Do you guys bounce the ball before the serve? I don't.

The PPA tour does NOT allow the drop (bounce) serve.

 

[sureshs]

The PPA tour does NOT allow the drop (bounce) serve.

Then I am all set for the tour!

 

[vex]

That's why I always say that if you're an >=11.5 UTR tennis player, it takes you about three weeks to become a PB 5.5 DUPR singles. In other words, you can become a PB pro.

This is hilariously wrong

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Have never observed this despite playing and observing hundreds of recreation level pickel games.
Bowlers take several steps before releasing. What in the world is a bowling ball pickle serve?
Video please.

 

[RSJfan]

What in the world is a bowling ball pickle serve?
Video please.

Interesting you can make your way to TTW but can’t type a search phrase into a web browser.

Visualize the motion of bowling. Replace the bowling ball with a PB racket. These people often but not always like to use the drop serve. Drop the ball and complete the bowling ball motion. Or without using drop serve:

Death of the Bowling Serve

 

[RSJfan]

Have never observed this despite playing and observing hundreds of recreation level pickel games.
Bowlers take several steps before releasing. What in the world is a bowling ball pickle serve?
Video please.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Interesting you can make your way to TTW but can’t type a search phrase into a web browser.

Visualize the motion of bowling. Replace the bowling ball with a PB racket. These people often but not always like to use the drop serve. Drop the ball and complete the bowling ball motion. Or without using drop serve:

Perhaps it is a testament to the pickel teaching community and to basic common sense that we have never observed a weak vertical bowling ball style serve.
Have never seen this type of weak bowling ball serve from anyone with the least bit of experience (3+ months)... Assume we are talking adults here and not kindergarteners.
That there are a million pickel 3.0 level matches on youtube and yet you fail to find a single bowling ball serve speaks for itself.
Even your link from 2020 suggests that this type of serve died in 2020.

Death of the Bowling Serve

There is no reason that a rank beginner adult needs to incorporate a weak vertical bowling ball style.
Swing more horizontally while taking care to make contact at waist level. That can easily be done on Day 1.
Even this rank beginner does not exhibit a vertical bowling ball style serve.

 

[RSJfan]

Perhaps it is a testament to the pickel teaching community and to basic common sense that we have never observed a weak vertical bowling ball style serve.
Have never seen this type of weak bowling ball serve from anyone with the least bit of experience (3+ months)... Assume we are talking adults here and not kindergarteners.
That there are a million pickel 3.0 level matches on youtube and yet you fail to find a single bowling ball serve speaks for itself.
Even your link from 2020 suggests that this type of serve died in 2020.

Death of the Bowling Serve

There is no reason that a rank beginner adult needs to incorporate a weak vertical bowling ball style.
Swing more horizontally while taking care to make contact at waist level. That can easily be done on Day 1.
Even this rank beginner does not exhibit a vertical bowling ball style serve.

I’ll wait a year or so before replying to be sure you’re done editing your post so I only have to reply once.

 

[I Dink Too Much]

Have never observed this despite playing and observing hundreds of recreation level pickel games.
Bowlers take several steps before releasing. What in the world is a bowling ball pickle serve?
Video please.

I have two friends (3.5+, each) who employ the "bowling" serve.

Friend A believes his serve is dominating -- which it is not. It's very easy to return deep and forcefully. The rest of us get a kick out of his over-blown confidence.

Friend B is always working to improve his bowling serve; he thinks it can be much better. Ironically, B's serve is very tough to return. He gets 4-5 "free points" from his serve each game. (If only the rest of his game was as good....)

- Dink