PDR, arm pain returning...

strike

Rookie
Well now that I have switched from the PD+ to the PDR, after initially being close to pain free, my arm pain is slowly returning. I had been working out in the gym doing light arm exercises with dumbells, and the pain was essentially gone, but after playing some more, it is returning.

While the pain is not what it was with the PD+, it is getting worse, and keeping me from playing...so now I am having to sit out another week in league play. So, even though I am trying to make it work, in the back of my mind I am slowly coming to the realization that the PDR might also be too much for my arm. It is strung with Xcel Premium 16g at 57lbs. Each time out I have to take ibuprofen and load it up with Icy Hot...something I have never done before.

While I like the nTour Two in my bag, and have leaded it up at 12 for a little more pop, I am not not sure it has the power level I am wanting. I doubt I will find an arm friendly racquet that has the power level of the PDR, but I'd like something in between.

What have all you other ex-PDR players settled in with?

I am considering trying the following:
Head Microgel Prestige Pro or Mid
Head Microgel Radical Mid+
Wilson kBlade 98
Wilson kFactor kTour
Babolat APDC - I almost bought this the first time around...is it an arm killer too?

any other suggestions? I play 4.0 level, an all court game, trying to get to net as quick as possible....a lot of kick serves, 75% slice backhands (but starting to come over it more), and normally heavy topspin forehands.
 

GPB

Professional
I hit with a friend's APDC last night and loved the way it felt (I usually play with a PD+team).

Food for thought.
 

strike

Rookie
I hit with a friend's APDC last night and loved the way it felt (I usually play with a PD+team).
Food for thought.
The only reason I didn't buy the APDC was that it was back-ordered at the time and was taking forever. While I was waiting, I had actually ordered it, I demo'd the PD+ and really liked it. Next time out, demo'd it again, and since I liked it again, payed very well, decided to cancel my order and buy the PD+.

Also, I normally play a lot of chip and charges of both sides. I don't get into very long rallies...I play aggressively and end points quick.
 

fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
One of my hitting pals uses the PDR - big strokes including a 1hbh - and he chased away some TE with rest, therapy, and a switch to nat'l gut. He's really lovin' that string.

I like to crash the net and I've always been more comfortable with a heavier racquet with a significantly headlight balance. Despite its stiffness, I never saw any issues flare up in my arm while playing with the Prostaff 6.1 Classic - used it for around a decade - but more flexible sticks like the Volkl C10 Pro fit me really well nowadays. The flex has made a big difference in my potential to rally well from the baseline and there's still plenty of heft and pop in those to volley with authority, too. This heavy, headlight, flexible formula certainly isn't a universal cure-all, but the combo of headlight balance and extra heft has always been good for me. More flex in your racquet might be helpful, too.
 

Nellie

Hall of Fame
That Xcel is a pretty soft string - I don't think that going to gut will help much. Why don't you try stringing at a lower tension like 52 lbs. The ball will fly but your elbow may feel a lot better.
 

strike

Rookie
Brings up a good question...

I've noticed a lot of people saying they are stringing their racquets in low 50s, some even in the 40's...for mid+ and OS frames.

When I was stringing back in the day, seemed 60 lbs for a 90 sq in frame was the norm...so for a PDR, I already feel like I am very low since it is 100 sq in and it is at 57.

I ordered a Pioneer DC Plus recently, so I will try a few string configs before I give up on it. At least this way won't cost me as much going to the pro shop to restring! :)
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
strike, i think there's something wrong in your form because the pdr has the same specs as the apdc and those rackets are fairly light. I say string your racket around mid 50, warm up properly, and correct your form. I do not hit just with arm. I hit with full upper torso and shoulder (when I remember anyway) and with enough power instead of all out.
 

strike

Rookie
strike, i think there's something wrong in your form because the pdr has the same specs as the apdc and those rackets are fairly light. I say string your racket around mid 50, warm up properly, and correct your form. I do not hit just with arm. I hit with full upper torso and shoulder (when I remember anyway) and with enough power instead of all out.
I've been meaning to take a lesson at the club to see what the pro thinks. In the past I always had good form, but that was in the past, so I am not ruling it out.

I had only demo'd the APDC a few times when I made my decision...I hadn't played extensively with it...so it could hurt my arm too if it has similar specs. Didn't mean to say it didn't hurt my arm. Though initially the PD+ felt great, it was only after a few months of playing with it that the pain started.

Will add the Volkl to the demo list.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
I brought up the apdc because its cousin the plus is the stick I have, and I have no arm pain with it.

I don't know what qualifies as an arm killer or not. Just from the specs of the racket, I even strung mine at 57 with a random string, this is no arm killer. That's my point.
 

strike

Rookie
I think they are similar, but the PDs are stiffer I believe. I don't know how much the figures really mean or how much a difference of 4 pts is, but the APDC has a stiffness of 67, whereas the PDs are 71 or so.

But you raise a good point...and as far as what I have read in these forums the APDC is not a tuning fork, but the PDs appear to be. There definitely are more posts concerning the PDs hurting peoples arm than the APDC.
 

Micky

Semi-Pro
I think they are similar, but the PDs are stiffer I believe. I don't know how much the figures really mean or how much a difference of 4 pts is, but the APDC has a stiffness of 67, whereas the PDs are 71 or so.

But you raise a good point...and as far as what I have read in these forums the APDC is not a tuning fork, but the PDs appear to be. There definitely are more posts concerning the PDs hurting peoples arm than the APDC.
Hola strike,

I am an expert in pain. I always get into trouble with my elbow when I start doing the kick serve. I got my first elbow drama testing a Pure Storm strung with syn gut in the mid 50's. The Pure Storm gave me amazing kick serves, but killed me.

Whenever I tried kick serving with my Pure Drive + Team and/or Cortex (strung with Hurricane Pro and Conquest) I felt pain in my elbow. Same thing with my AeroProDrive Cortex (strung with Conquest @ 57).

In other words I stay away from kick serves and so should you.
 

strike

Rookie
most of my pain is not in my elbow...which is why I haven't been referring to it as TE (which I have had before, many years ago, so I am familiar with it), rather just arm pain

the pain I am feeling is localized in the following locations:
- deltoid
- bicep
- a little in my rotator cuff
- and a little on my forearm

the more I continue to play, if it is a long match, I might start to feel some TE pain, including numbness down into my hand...but not always

so I wouldn't classify what I am feeling as just TE - I find I can pretty much play through it, TE I never could....but depending on how long I play, the severity of what I feel the next day is either less or more...if I have played a lot and it was strenuous, I might feel some sharp pulses of pain in my deltoid for a minute or two throughout the day

no kick serves?!? :( they are a corner stone of my serve game...I know, I need to develop my serve more, but they allow me to have a high 1st serve %, and I normally hold my serve, all in good time
 

Mad iX

Semi-Pro
Considered a Speedport Black or Aerogel 500? They'd be closer in terms of power, but easier on the arm.
 

strike

Rookie
Considered a Speedport Black or Aerogel 500? They'd be closer in terms of power, but easier on the arm.
I tried the Speedport Black when I was first trying racquests...first time out I liked it, second time not so much. The first time it had the grommets, second time it didn't but was much more tinny. I though w/o grommets it was supposed to be much more muted...but the 2nd time it just felt all wrong and I moved on.

Never tried Aeorogel...
 
Head Extreme Pro has specs almost identical to PDR but a little more flex and is much more comfortable. I like it alot and may switch to it. (PDR caused me elbow and wrist pain that I don't have with the Extreme). Hate the Head grip shape but a racquet technician I know is willing to replace the handle for a reasonable price. SW is a tad high but I improved matters by shaving a small bit of the headguard off with a Dremel tool.
 

strike

Rookie
Well I was supposed to sit out our league match last night, but when our team lost a few players due to conflicts, I decided to play. I took a few ibuprofen and played with the nTour, full out.

There was little pain at all while playing, just lingering stiffness. This morning I am virtually pain free, a little stiffness, and we'll see how it goes throughout the day...but overall I am very encouraged and think my days with the PDR are definitely numbered.

As I wrote, I like the nTour, but something tells me there is a better stick for my game out there. So now demo time begins again! :)
 

PED

Legend
strike, i think there's something wrong in your form because the pdr has the same specs as the apdc and those rackets are fairly light.
The APDC is a good bit lighter than the PDR at 11.3 strung vs 11.8. I own both and I prefer the PDR, but I don't get arm pain from it. I string a hybrid with poly mains at 55/57 and have no arm issues at all. In a perfect world, they would make a Nadal signature version of the APDC that weighed around 11.8 or 11.9. The drawback to me on the apdc is the lighter weight and I find I can hit a nastier ball with the PDR: they're both great sticks. You also might consider the pure storm tour: weight is 11.8 strung and it's much more arm friendly than the other 2 babs we are talking about. My son plays with it and loves it. The head is really flexible.

I find the APDC to be a good bit softer than the PDR. I believe the RA specs are 67 for the apdc vs 71 for the PDR, but to me it feels stiffer than that. I find that I have to be much choosier with my string setup in the PDR was stiffer strings can feel a little too stiff in it while the APDC plays well with a wide variety of setups.

The cortex does help, and you might consider trying lower mid 50's around 55 or 54 to help the elbow a bit. When I first made the switch last year to the non cortex aero in Feb 2007, I had some elbow pain, but it turned out it was my form and not the stick at fault.
Good luck in your search.
 

Nellie

Hall of Fame
That arm pain does not sound like a racquet based problem, but the extra weight of the PDR may lead you to feel it more.

I am not a doctor, just someone with a lot of injuries, but is sounds more like a rototar cuff/shoulder problem that is leading you to use weird form that leads to secondary issues down your arm

Regarding stringing at lower tensions, I just checked and saw that the recommended range is 55-65, so you are right in that range. I have talked to the babalot rep, and he claims that the woofer system really takes a lot of vibration out when you are within the range, but as mentioned above, it does not sound like an elbow/racquet problem.

I know my pro uses the n-pro because he likes a lighter racquet for his shoulder (but likes heavier for elbow problem)
 

strike

Rookie
That arm pain does not sound like a racquet based problem, but the extra weight of the PDR may lead you to feel it more.

I am not a doctor, just someone with a lot of injuries, but is sounds more like a rototar cuff/shoulder problem that is leading you to use weird form that leads to secondary issues down your arm

Regarding stringing at lower tensions, I just checked and saw that the recommended range is 55-65, so you are right in that range. I have talked to the babalot rep, and he claims that the woofer system really takes a lot of vibration out when you are within the range, but as mentioned above, it does not sound like an elbow/racquet problem.

I know my pro uses the n-pro because he likes a lighter racquet for his shoulder (but likes heavier for elbow problem)
Are you saying it sounds like I have an injured rotator cuff and/or shoulder?

I have full range of motion, and only stiffness in the deltoid, and a small part of the pec that attaches to the arm. I'm no doctor either, but to me it doesn't feel like an injury, more over use than anything.

As far as my form, I don't think that is the issue, but I have yet to take that lesson to have the pro check it out. The only form change I think I have made since my earlier playing days (when pros and coaches said I had good form) is on the serve. With the PDR (and generally with larger head rackets) for some reason I don't feel as comfortable serving and end up taking an abbreviated motion...instead of the typical full motion. Maybe that is part of it...but I also experience the pain on other shots with the PDR, fh/bh, etc.

Last night I made an effort to take my full service motion, and aside from lingering stiffness in those areas, no pain. When I play with the PDR, I have much more pain as described.

As of now, still no pain, just lingering stiffness in those areas of my deltoid and pec.
 
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kanjii

Semi-Pro
Head Extreme Pro has specs almost identical to PDR but a little more flex and is much more comfortable. I like it alot and may switch to it. (PDR caused me elbow and wrist pain that I don't have with the Extreme). Hate the Head grip shape but a racquet technician I know is willing to replace the handle for a reasonable price. SW is a tad high but I improved matters by shaving a small bit of the headguard off with a Dremel tool.
I agree with Mary, I played with all 3 racquets...and the Extreme Pro works very well in the arm and shoulder area...it falls between the PDR and APDC in power and spin, but flex wise, no pain at all...even on serves. The only problem is I also do not like the Head grip :(
 

bluegrasser

Hall of Fame
Well now that I have switched from the PD+ to the PDR, after initially being close to pain free, my arm pain is slowly returning. I had been working out in the gym doing light arm exercises with dumbells, and the pain was essentially gone, but after playing some more, it is returning.

While the pain is not what it was with the PD+, it is getting worse, and keeping me from playing...so now I am having to sit out another week in league play. So, even though I am trying to make it work, in the back of my mind I am slowly coming to the realization that the PDR might also be too much for my arm. It is strung with Xcel Premium 16g at 57lbs. Each time out I have to take ibuprofen and load it up with Icy Hot...something I have never done before.

While I like the nTour Two in my bag, and have leaded it up at 12 for a little more pop, I am not not sure it has the power level I am wanting. I doubt I will find an arm friendly racquet that has the power level of the PDR, but I'd like something in between.

What have all you other ex-PDR players settled in with?

I am considering trying the following:
Head Microgel Prestige Pro or Mid
Head Microgel Radical Mid+
Wilson kBlade 98
Wilson kFactor kTour
Babolat APDC - I almost bought this the first time around...is it an arm killer too?

any other suggestions? I play 4.0 level, an all court game, trying to get to net as quick as possible....a lot of kick serves, 75% slice backhands (but starting to come over it more), and normally heavy topspin forehands.
I'd say the K Blade, or the Rad mp - with the soft flex it will be easier on your arm - there is the closed patter issue for spin - just demo.
 

strike

Rookie
I'd say the K Blade, or the Rad mp - with the soft flex it will be easier on your arm - there is the closed patter issue for spin - just demo.
I am not very familiar with Head, though have been reading the reviews and feedback. Both the Prestige and Radical lines read like excellent racquets...

Is the primary difference the power level? The Radical line having a little more pop? I am playing tonight, and thinking of trying either the Radical or the Prestige (Mid+).
 

eric892

Rookie
I have no problem with my PDR+ and I must say that this is the best racquet I played with. No pain felt in my arm, hopefully not. I think it is about the technique, if you tend to miss-hit a lot of balls, vibrations will be created more than hitting the sweet spot. So I suggest you stick with our PDR and keep working out with the dumbells.
 

ledor

Professional
Yes, it does hurt because of improper technique. I was trying to hit bigger kick serves by using muscle instead of using a loose arm. That was a mistake. I was using a Luxilion BB original/Biphase x-1 combo at the time strung way too tight, 65 lbs.
 

strike

Rookie
Demo'd the MG Prestige Mid+ today...didn't like it one bit. It had absolutely no power, I knew it wasn't a powerful frame, but didn't think it had zero power at all. I had to swing really hard to get anything close to a heavy ball, and ultimately it was very tiring. To me, it felt like a wood board, zero feel. I didn't have a problem getting spin on the ball, but slices weren't that easy with it. Towards the end, serving was killing me.

I doubt the Prestige Mid or Pro is drastically different, so I won't bother trying them.

After picking up the PDR at the end when we were just hitting, my opponent commented my strokes were so much better with it. But I could still feel that if I kept at it with the PDR for long the pain would return. So, perhaps I will try the Extreme Pro next.

btw - one thing I don't understand is how someone who has never seen another's strokes can say that another is feeling pain due to technique or improper form. Like I wrote, I am not saying my pain isn't partly due to my technique, it may be, but there are so many other factors that could cause arm pain, I don't understand how anyone can just chalk it all up to form and technique. Please explain...seriously, I am not trying to be argumentative, I would like to hear someone's view on this.
 

pmerk34

Legend
My two cents

Demo'd the MG Prestige Mid+ today...didn't like it one bit. It had absolutely no power, I knew it wasn't a powerful frame, but didn't think it had zero power at all. I had to swing really hard to get anything close to a heavy ball, and ultimately it was very tiring. To me, it felt like a wood board, zero feel. I didn't have a problem getting spin on the ball, but slices weren't that easy with it. Towards the end, serving was killing me.

I doubt the Prestige Mid or Pro is drastically different, so I won't bother trying them.

After picking up the PDR at the end when we were just hitting, my opponent commented my strokes were so much better with it. But I could still feel that if I kept at it with the PDR for long the pain would return. So, perhaps I will try the Extreme Pro next.

btw - one thing I don't understand is how someone who has never seen another's strokes can say that another is feeling pain due to technique or improper form. Like I wrote, I am not saying my pain isn't partly due to my technique, it may be, but there are so many other factors that could cause arm pain, I don't understand how anyone can just chalk it all up to form and technique. Please explain...seriously, I am not trying to be argumentative, I would like to hear someone's view on this.

The MG Prestige Pro has an open string pattern, weighs more and is less headlight than the MP. I use the Pro because it had noticeably more power and easier access to spin for me. I do have one MG MP which I use for doubles due to it's manueverability, and ultra control. I too could not generate much power from the baseline with the MP and ultimately was too demanding to make my normal everyday frame. The Pro is my everday frame that's how much of a difference I felt - give it a shot.

As far as TE or arm pain if you have had the same technique forever and then all of a sudden you switch frames and you arm is killing you than it's the frame not you. The same thing happened to myself when I switched to a light ultra-stiff frame. If you look at the RDC stiffenss on the PDR it is a 71 which is very very stiff. I have hit with it and while I felt the spin and power were fairly enormous I knew after one session my arm wouldn't tolerate that stiff a frame for long especially as the swingweight felt awful light and it's not all that headlight at 5 points.

You also have to check to see what the PDR was strung with. I used to play with Prince Thunderbolts for about 6 years. I once switched to Prince Endurance Strings (kevlar in the mains) and after one match my arm was on fire and I was out a month. I switched right back to synthetic gut and never had another arm problem with that frame.
 

strike

Rookie
The PDR is strung with Babolat Xcel Premium 16g @57.

When my shoulder feels better, I may try playing with the PDR strung @55 with one of the Alpha multis that came with my new DC Pioneer. My shoulder (really my pec now, the area closest to my arm pit) is still hurting from the demo with the Prestige MP. This is a totally new area of pain for me. I seem to keep having new pains these days. :cry: I felt this on the serve, and after a few more tries, stopped altogether.

My next demo will be the Head MG Extreme (not pro version). I am thinking I need a lighter racquet until I can really build up the muscles in my arm/shoulder area. Since I am just getting back into playing after at least a 5 year lapse...playing on average twice a week, part of it may be just that my muscles are not used to this level of exertion.

However, with that said, I continue to play pain free with the nTour...when I am pain free to begin with that is.
 

strike

Rookie
I just made my first purchase of string for my alpha, and couldn't resist getting some natural gut. Never used it, and the price for the Tonic if I hybrid isn't too much.

So I am going to try a hybrid with the Tonic and possibly the Alpha Gut 2000 or OG Sheep Micro in the crosses.

Any thoughts on how much more arm friendly this would be compared to a full Xcel or Biphase job?
 

strike

Rookie
That arm pain does not sound like a racquet based problem, but the extra weight of the PDR may lead you to feel it more.

I am not a doctor, just someone with a lot of injuries, but is sounds more like a rototar cuff/shoulder problem that is leading you to use weird form that leads to secondary issues down your arm
I think you were on to something. I haven't played a lot recently, about a week ago was the last time trying out various racquets. I think I have narrowed down my list, but will get to that in a minute.

So, I had a sports massage, and afterward felt much better, but the masseuse asked a lot of questions and did some research, and thinks what I have is subscapularis tendinitis. After reading about it, this sounds a lot like what I am experiencing. I am laying off playing for a few weeks, icing it, and will start very light exercises in a week or so if the pain has subsided then. Essentially anytime I do something that uses that muscle (pec where it attaches to the shoulder) in a motion like the serve or pushup or weight machine for the chest, I feel the pain.

So like I said, I'm off tennis for at least 2 weeks. But when I return, the PDR is definitely getting replaced...whether it was the source of the injury or not, doesn't matter at this point, it is gone. I will be listing it here on the forums if anyone is interested in it. Still in very good condition, and has Babolat Tonic+ in the mains (60lbs) w/Prince Multi crosses (57 lbs), played on for only 1 quick painful set.

From the demos, I think I have my list down to:
- Volkl V1 Classic
- Becker V1 Mid+
- Volkl DNX8
- Becker Pro
- Head MG Rad Mid+

Has anyone had this injury? How long of a rehab was it?
 

Micky

Semi-Pro
I think you were on to something. I haven't played a lot recently, about a week ago was the last time trying out various racquets. I think I have narrowed down my list, but will get to that in a minute.

So, I had a sports massage, and afterward felt much better, but the masseuse asked a lot of questions and did some research, and thinks what I have is subscapularis tendinitis. After reading about it, this sounds a lot like what I am experiencing. I am laying off playing for a few weeks, icing it, and will start very light exercises in a week or so if the pain has subsided then. Essentially anytime I do something that uses that muscle (pec where it attaches to the shoulder) in a motion like the serve or pushup or weight machine for the chest, I feel the pain.

So like I said, I'm off tennis for at least 2 weeks. But when I return, the PDR is definitely getting replaced...whether it was the source of the injury or not, doesn't matter at this point, it is gone. I will be listing it here on the forums if anyone is interested in it. Still in very good condition, and has Babolat Tonic+ in the mains (60lbs) w/Prince Multi crosses (57 lbs), played on for only 1 quick painful set.

From the demos, I think I have my list down to:
- Volkl V1 Classic
- Becker V1 Mid+
- Volkl DNX8
- Becker Pro
- Head MG Rad Mid+

Has anyone had this injury? How long of a rehab was it?

Hola Strike,

I have the same injury. I killed my shoulder playing table tennis eight years ago. I just don't pay attention to that pain anymore. You will waist money in doctors, rehab, racquets and strings. Surgery is the answer.
 

strike

Rookie
Hola Strike,

I have the same injury. I killed my shoulder playing table tennis eight years ago. I just don't pay attention to that pain anymore. You will waist money in doctors, rehab, racquets and strings. Surgery is the answer.
surgery?!

Hold up just a minute! Everything I am reading and hearing says a little ice/heat, rest, therapy and rehab will eliminate this injury...in the course of a few weeks. Mine from the tests is also not very severe.
 

njjohan

Rookie
Strike, you sound as if you're in the same situation as me. Same game, just my racquet is the old PD+. The advice I've been given is to switch to something like a multifilament string, which supposedly has the comfort and arm-friendliness of nat gut without the prohibitive cost. Likewise, the heavier end of the TFlash line have been reviewed as more arm-friendly alternatives to the Pure Drive.
 

strike

Rookie
Strike, you sound as if you're in the same situation as me. Same game, just my racquet is the old PD+. The advice I've been given is to switch to something like a multifilament string, which supposedly has the comfort and arm-friendliness of nat gut without the prohibitive cost. Likewise, the heavier end of the TFlash line have been reviewed as more arm-friendly alternatives to the Pure Drive.
I went through many iterations with the PDC+ then to the PDRC. Using lead at various locations, multi filaments, even most recently the Tonic natural gut. Ultimately, none of it worked. I will say that I believe that some of my pain has been brought on by over exertion and not warming up properly, but I am convinced the PDC+/PDRC exacerbated it too.

If you are thinking of a new stick, and generally like the power the PD+ is giving you and don't want to lose it, I would suggest hitting with the Volkl/Beckers listed above. I felt I had just about the same power, but way more control than the PDR gave me. There is no comparison between them and the PDs in terms of comfort. The V1 has a different feel, but after a few hits I liked it. Overall I think they have everything the PDs have, but offer much more in terms of control and comfort.

EDIT - when I return to playing, it will most likely be with a Volkl/Becker
 
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njjohan

Rookie
OK I'll try and gives some Beckers a demo. The thing is, I love the feel of the PD+, and only experience arm problems with fresh string, but I'll still give it a go.
 

Micky

Semi-Pro
surgery?!

Hold up just a minute! Everything I am reading and hearing says a little ice/heat, rest, therapy and rehab will eliminate this injury...in the course of a few weeks. Mine from the tests is also not very severe.
Hola strike,

jejeje don't freak out. You may give your shoulder some rest. Hey... I gave my shoulder six months to heal when I had my knee surgery and then once started TABLE TENNIS again jejeje the pain in my shoulder came back. As I said before... it is not the equipment.
 

strike

Rookie
Hola strike,

jejeje don't freak out. You may give your shoulder some rest. Hey... I gave my shoulder six months to heal when I had my knee surgery and then once started TABLE TENNIS again jejeje the pain in my shoulder came back. As I said before... it is not the equipment.
Well after another trip to the masseuse, she is fairly convinced my scapularis is fine. After a thorough examination, which was definitely interesting feeling, she said it is one of the most pliable and loose that she has seen, felt no scar tissue, and it wasn't knotted or anything. So the culprit is the pec & deltoid (parts of which are very tight).

I'm going to give it another week before hitting the courts again (rehab, ice, & massage), at which time I will demo the Becker V1 and Pro if I can. Read a lot of good things about it. Tried the O3 White last time out, I liked it, but I felt I had more control with the V1 Classic, so hoping the Becker is even better!
 

strike

Rookie
Didn't like the Becker V1. I seem to be in the minority and think the V1 Classic Silver is better...though my playing partner agreed as well.

After continuing the dumbbell exercises, the shoulder and whole arm is feeling better...and last night I hit with the Becker Pro and KSix-One Team. Liked them both, and really I could probably live with either.

I also did some light serving (with the KSix), and didn't feel any pain, so it was very encouraging. I'm not playing again until Wed, and will try to hit the gym for another round of dumbbell work over the weekend.

Any thoughts on these two racquets? I felt the KSix had good power, but was more demanding. The Becker Pro I didn't have to try as hard to hit it deep in the court....my partner felt I hit best with the KSix.
 

Tennisman912

Semi-Pro
Strike,

First the bad news. You are now experiencing what happens when you are used to using a racquet so stiff you can get away with technique or positioning issues and still play well. How do I know this? Let me explain. Anyone who thinks a prestige has no feel (especially compared to the stiff babolats) is someone whose racquet opinions are suspect at a minimum. No offense intended but the prestige racquets are one of the premier feel/control racquets on the market. Granted, they are relatively flexible (especially compared to your usual babos) but they have pretty low swingweight and are very head light and maneuverable so the fact the racquet is making you tired is a warning sign about other issues you may have physically or more likely technique wise. But you must be able to hit the sweet spot consistently which I can only assume you are not doing if you think the frame has no feel. Once you get used to providing the pace and swinging out on your shots most like this aspect. Again, saying your serve is making you very tired says to me that you are used to counting on the stiffness of your babolat racquets and not technique to hit your best serves or you could produce plenty of pace using the prestige. Just my thoughts and basic inferences based on what you are saying.

Now as far as having arms problems I am sorry to hear about that but it happens to a lot of people using the babolats (not that I have anything against the babos). Now as far as some racquets that may help, the k95 team is a decent racquet but is a little light in heavy hitting conditions in my opinion. I might try some of the prince O series as they are pretty arm friendly. The head radical is also very flexible so you will probably not like it if you don’t like the prestige. You may want to the try a Head Instinct as it is middle of the road all the way around.

Switching racquets is a pain and we certainly feel your pain, especially having to switch due to a racquet causing arm problems. Good luck in your search and here is to hoping you get your arm squared away.

Good tennis

TM
 

strike

Rookie
Strike,

First the bad news. You are now experiencing what happens when you are used to using a racquet so stiff you can get away with technique or positioning issues and still play well. How do I know this? Let me explain. Anyone who thinks a prestige has no feel (especially compared to the stiff babolats) is someone whose racquet opinions are suspect at a minimum. No offense intended but the prestige racquets are one of the premier feel/control racquets on the market. Granted, they are relatively flexible (especially compared to your usual babos) but they have pretty low swingweight and are very head light and maneuverable so the fact the racquet is making you tired is a warning sign about other issues you may have physically or more likely technique wise. But you must be able to hit the sweet spot consistently which I can only assume you are not doing if you think the frame has no feel. Once you get used to providing the pace and swinging out on your shots most like this aspect. Again, saying your serve is making you very tired says to me that you are used to counting on the stiffness of your babolat racquets and not technique to hit your best serves or you could produce plenty of pace using the prestige. Just my thoughts and basic inferences based on what you are saying.

Now as far as having arms problems I am sorry to hear about that but it happens to a lot of people using the babolats (not that I have anything against the babos). Now as far as some racquets that may help, the k95 team is a decent racquet but is a little light in heavy hitting conditions in my opinion. I might try some of the prince O series as they are pretty arm friendly. The head radical is also very flexible so you will probably not like it if you don’t like the prestige. You may want to the try a Head Instinct as it is middle of the road all the way around.

Switching racquets is a pain and we certainly feel your pain, especially having to switch due to a racquet causing arm problems. Good luck in your search and here is to hoping you get your arm squared away.

Good tennis

TM
Actually I liked the Radical Mid+, and could probably live with it. Can't explain why I liked it, and not the Prestige. But alas... :???:

My previous racquet was a 200G per my sig, which I used as soon as I started up tennis again last year before going to the PDR...which is 90 sq inches, and the only reason I decided to change was the weight seemed too much for my 38 yr old arm now after 2 sets. But I was hitting the sweet spot of it well enough. I just wanted a little more power, guess I overshot what I really needed with the PDs a little. :)

But I agree, the Babolats can make you lazy in terms of swing mechanics. Which is why I am leaning towards the KSix Team...can always put some lead on it if necessary...vs the Becker Pro. I noticed this last night, and I really want to keep improving beyond just letting the racquet do everything.
 

Tennisman912

Semi-Pro
Strike,

I understand. It is always tough figuring out what is best for you. If you like the K95 team but want more weight, you can try the k95 in either version. I hesitate to mention it as it is pretty heavy and moderately stiff but they are great racquets if not too heavy for you (especially the swing weight). I have played with the 200G and it was my favorite dunlop but I haven't tried anything newer so can't provide much feedback there.

The radical is a good stick as well. Good luck whatever you decide.

TM
 

FuriousYellow

Professional
Try the PK Ki5. Very easy on the arm, decent but not overwhelming power, and open string pattern. Similar weight and balance to the PDR without the stiffness.
 

strike

Rookie
I have played with the 200G and it was my favorite dunlop but I haven't tried anything newer so can't provide much feedback there.
I haven't liked any Dunlops since. Tried the Aerogels, while not bad, just didn't have the same feel. The 300G/400G that followed back in the late '80s were just OK, but I felt they were trying to make them too powerful. At the time I hated the widebodies that were coming out (ie, the Profile - think it was a Donnay) The 200G is the racquet I have used for the longest stint. My current one is pretty old and worn out, at the top of the hoop its little warped...but still feels great for the most part.

In the back of my mind, I have this feeling that in 2 years I might be playing with it, or another one again. :)

Thanks for the suggestions! I think I am going to go with the KSix Team this time around. Can always lead it up if it starts to feel too light. But it feels good, and I think fits the bill as a racquet that I think I should be looking for...essentially one that is just a little lighter than the 200G, and a touch more powerful...but still in the "players" category. Enough of the rocket Babs...learned my lesson!
 

strike

Rookie
Update: well I now know what the issue was. After having the pain continue into the Fall, it got bad enough that I put tennis down for awhile. When the pain didn't quite go away, I relented and went to the orthopedist. Upon doing many many tests, the Dr. prescribed physical therapy.

Basically my whole shoulder had gotten very stiff and my flexibility was drastically less than my left shoulder. I could hardly get my right arm in the "sleeper stretch" beyond 45 degrees, whereas my left arm I could put it to the floor with no issues whatsoever.

Along with some strengthening, I did a batter of stretches to get my flexibility back - I can now get my right arm to the floor, but still some stiffness remains.

Ultimately I am back to playing pain free (no ibuprofen or icy-hot at all :)) and am considering moving on from the KTeam for something with a little more mass/power. But will continue the stretches and strengthening so I minimize any chance of having this issue again.
 

velkov

Rookie
Well now that I have switched from the PD+ to the PDR, after initially being close to pain free, my arm pain is slowly returning. I had been working out in the gym doing light arm exercises with dumbells, and the pain was essentially gone, but after playing some more, it is returning.

While the pain is not what it was with the PD+, it is getting worse, and keeping me from playing...so now I am having to sit out another week in league play. So, even though I am trying to make it work, in the back of my mind I am slowly coming to the realization that the PDR might also be too much for my arm. It is strung with Xcel Premium 16g at 57lbs. Each time out I have to take ibuprofen and load it up with Icy Hot...something I have never done before.

While I like the nTour Two in my bag, and have leaded it up at 12 for a little more pop, I am not not sure it has the power level I am wanting. I doubt I will find an arm friendly racquet that has the power level of the PDR, but I'd like something in between.

What have all you other ex-PDR players settled in with?

I am considering trying the following:
Head Microgel Prestige Pro or Mid
Head Microgel Radical Mid+
Wilson kBlade 98
Wilson kFactor kTour
Babolat APDC - I almost bought this the first time around...is it an arm killer too?

any other suggestions? I play 4.0 level, an all court game, trying to get to net as quick as possible....a lot of kick serves, 75% slice backhands (but starting to come over it more), and normally heavy topspin forehands.
Head Microgel Radical Mid+ is your stick i guess
 
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