Peak Federer is overrated

FedFosterWallace said:
Look. I’ve already identified myself as TTW’s Salt Chronicler™. It is one of many hats that I wear.

And rest assured just as soon as you bring some compelling content to the table, your posts will resonate with me.

Would that validate your cyber-existence?
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Ok fair enough I guess

I advise you to not waste your time though, as I said I am new and not an alt..
 
tennisaddict said:
Why the Djoker fans cannot be happy with how Djoker has won 2 majors and 2 masters in 4 months and going for another YE 1 and YEC, but keep wanting to focus attention on Fed and throw mud at him , is a mystery to me

Really really pathetic fan base

And it is one thing if they stick around during periods where things don’t go well .

Most vanished when things didn’t look good and come here to gloat when he is back

Such a shameless group
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5 clowns don't make up entire fanbases.
Learn to ignore them and stop stirring the pot yourself.
 
tennisaddict said:
It does . Let us talk after Djoker figures out his h2h over Roddick and get a set over Kyrgios

Fed has beat peak Djoker like 10 times
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Yes he beat 6 year younger Djokovic but useless in slams since 2014

Agassi is 11 years older and took peak Fed to 5 in USO 2004 and would have probably in 2005 if he wasn't tired

Federer couldn't even take Djoker to 5 once in 2015-16
 
Objective observer said:
Yes he beat 6 year younger Djokovic but useless in slams since 2014

Agassi is 11 years older and took peak Fed to 5 in USO 2004 and would have probably in 2005 if he wasn't tired

Federer couldn't even take Djoker to 5 once in 2015-16
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Like I said , we will have to wait for Djoker to first fix his records against Kyrgios and Roddick

Fed has done much much more against Djoker than what Djoker has accomplished against the lesser rivals
 
tennisaddict said:
Like I said , we will have to wait for Djoker to first fix his records against Kyrgios and Roddick

Fed has done much much more against Djoker than what Djoker has accomplished against the lesser rivals
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Kyrgios doesn't count man it's only 2 matches in 2017..

Roddick is a bigger sample size even then all matches before 2011. Roddick retired when Djokovic was just 25, he didn't get enough opportunities
 
Poor trolling effort, OP.

I remember the match well - Agassi was playing brilliantly for periods and would've made it tough for anyone. Federer of course raised his level even higher than Agassi could counter in the 3rd and 4th set, and emerged victorious.

Also, Agassi at 35 was still at a very high level, as you know - not much worse than his peak 10 years earlier. His age is irrelevant here.
 
Im(moral) Winner said:
Idk. Fed played 65 consecutive slams, which was the record (but let's not count Lopez surpassing it with bunch of 1R losses) and having the most slam matches won record and making at least one SF starting from 2003.
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Hope Djokodal surpass it so we can close this argument in the future.
 
tennisaddict said:
Like I said , we will have to wait for Djoker to first fix his records against Kyrgios and Roddick

Fed has done much much more against Djoker than what Djoker has accomplished against the lesser rivals
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What about Fed fixing his record against Thiem and other lesser players he has a llosing record against?

You are acting like Djoko can't have a losing record against someone. All of them have, but in the most important ones, Djokovic leads the h2h. Especially against his rivals.
 
No doubt Agassi was heavily disadvantaged by his age, the movement was a problem for him, but he's an incredible ball striker so when Federer's level dropped in the 2nd set so he was the worse player for a set and half. That happens to players at their peak, you know? What's important is that Federer was able to pick up his level and finished the match in style, although against much worse Agassi. Still, in the 1st set, Federer had plenty of BP's, Agassi had none so it wasn't the case of Roger barely handling Andre before he got tired.

It's so desperate to try and use a match to prove Federer's best is overrated. Peak Djokovic was matched and almost outplayed from baseline by Gilles Simon. Peak Nadal was struggling against Isner at the French. Everyone is overrated it appears when you scrutinize hard enough.
 
Objective observer said:
Kyrgios doesn't count man it's only 2 matches in 2017..

Roddick is a bigger sample size even then all matches before 2011. Roddick retired when Djokovic was just 25, he didn't get enough opportunities
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Oh, right .. Djoker has bird flu , anthrax and common cold ?

Pre 2011 doesn’t count , 2017 doesn’t count .. so what counts are just matches Djoker won ?? LMFAO. He is the moral victor in every match he plays ? I thought it was someone else on the tour who had that credit
 
RF-18 said:
What about Fed fixing his record against Thiem and other lesser players he has a llosing record against?

You are acting like Djoko can't have a losing record against someone. All of them have, but in the most important ones, Djokovic leads the h2h. Especially against his rivals.
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I never said Djoker is overrated . Every player will have a losing record against someone . So why target Fed ?

Let Djoker fix his h2h if someone wants to play that game

Let us talk of big rivals h2h once small opponent h2h is fixed
 
Phoenix1983 said:
Poor trolling effort, OP.

I remember the match well - Agassi was playing brilliantly for periods and would've made it tough for anyone. Federer of course raised his level even higher than Agassi could counter in the 3rd and 4th set, and emerged victorious.

Also, Agassi at 35 was still at a very high level, as you know - not much worse than his peak 10 years earlier. His age is irrelevant here.
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I was not trying to "troll" I was making a serious observation

Also Agassi became tired clearly in the 4th set.

Also funny how Agassi's age is irrelevant yet Federer in 2015 is a servebot with no baseline game and a shadow of his peak years LOL
 
Objective observer said:


This is peak federer vs 35 year old 11 year older agassi

Look at how much federer is struggling against grandpa agassi
He was down a break in the third set and barely edged it out before agassi became tired

Peak fed was struggling with agassi's ballstriking

This is despite agassi being 11 years older!!
We all know how much fed fanboys cry about federer just being 6 years older than Djokovic

Also agassi had an extremely weak draw and barely beat journeyman ginepri in the semi yet he gave peak federer quite a scare LOL

Semi-retired Sampras owned Agassi in 2002 USO but absolute peak Federer was struggling against grandpa agassi in 2004, 2005 USO LMAO

Just shows how overrated Federer's peak is being matched from the baseline from a grandpa who is 11 years older LOL
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OK I'll bite: It sounds like you're looking at paper trails and red herrings rather than the actual quality of the tennis. I don't care how old anyone was (other than to point out how good Agassi was for his age), what their draw was like, who struggled to deal with what, who owned who on different, specifically selected, unrelated occasions with different matchups, form and circumstances, this match was quality ball-striking and good quality from both sides of the net, DESPITE the fact that you've been obviously selective about which one of his god knows how many matches to scrape an empty barrel with. It goes without saying that the fact that Federer 'struggled' with some quality ball-striking for some of a match in 2005 has little bearing on Fed's general level throughout his peak years. And just to rustle your specific jimmies, at least Fed actually beat Agassi every time they met during this period, unlike Djoker with Fed during his own beast years. Fed also didn't have a year where Agassi was his only competition...

Nice ironic username, by the way.
 
tennisaddict said:
Oh, right .. Djoker has bird flu , anthrax and common cold ?

Pre 2011 doesn’t count , 2017 doesn’t count .. so what counts are just matches Djoker won ?? LMFAO. He is the moral victor in every match he plays ? I thought it was someone else on the tour who had that credit
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I am not making excuses mate.
I don't count Federer's losses to robredo stakhovsky etc as he was obviously nowhere near his best
 
tennisaddict said:
I never said Djoker is overrated . Every player will have a losing record against someone . So why target Fed ?

Let Djoker fix his h2h if someone wants to play that game

Let us talk of big rivals h2h once small opponent h2h is fixed
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''small opponent'' h2h has no correlation with big rivals h2h. I don't know what you're on about
 
TearTheRoofOff said:
OK I'll bite: It sounds like you're looking at paper trails and red herrings rather than the actual quality of the tennis. I don't care how old anyone was (other than to point out how good Agassi was for his age), what their draw was like, who struggled to deal with what, who owned who on different, specifically selected, unrelated occasions with different matchups, form and circumstances, this match was quality ball-striking and good quality from both sides of the net, DESPITE the fact that you've been obviously selective about which one of his god knows how many matches to scrape an empty barrel with. It goes without saying that the fact that Federer 'struggled' with some quality ball-striking for some of a match in 2005 has little bearing on Fed's general level throughout his peak years. And just to rustle your specific jimmies, at least Fed actually beat Agassi every time they met during this period, unlike Djoker with Fed during his own beast years. Fed also didn't have a year where Agassi was his only competition...

Nice ironic username, by the way.
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Pretty aggressive mate

Anyway I am not talking about competition here
So age is irrelevant then why is any victory over Federer after 2012 considered grandpa even though it is possible he was playing at a very high level in those matches
 
Objective observer said:
I am not making excuses mate.
I don't count Federer's losses to robredo stakhovsky etc as he was obviously nowhere near his best
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Of course you did . You said pre 2011 doesn’t count t , you said 2017 doesn’t count. You said only 2 matches , hence doesn’t count

How many more excuses you need ?
 
CYGS said:
Hope Djokodal surpass it so we can close this argument in the future.
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Neither one of Djokodal can surpass Fed in consecutive slams played or his SF streak. Fed has currently won 339 GS matches while Djokovic 258 and RAFA 247. So good luck surpassing it especially for RAFA.
 
tennisaddict said:
It is simple . Before we talk of h2h with big rivals , first close the gap that you have with small opponents
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tennisaddict said:
Of course you did . You said pre 2011 doesn’t count t , you said 2017 doesn’t count. You said only 2 matches , hence doesn’t count

How many more excuses you need ?
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I never said pre 2011 doesn't count, just that Djokovic would have remedied it if he got more matches after it.

Also 2017 clearly doesn't count. Are you going to count Nadal losses to berdych,verdasco in AO 2015,16?
Or federer robredo in 2013.

It was a clear anomaly
 
Objective observer said:
I never said pre 2011 doesn't count, just that Djokovic would have remedied it if he got more matches after it.

Also 2017 clearly doesn't count. Are you going to count Nadal losses to berdych,verdasco in AO 2015,16?
Or federer robredo in 2013.

It was a clear anomaly
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Would have , could have , should have .. does not cut it

We talk here of how Djoker 2.0 is probably the best player of all time and it is an irony he has let the old man defeat him so many times . How do we say with a straight face Fed is overrated ?
 
tennisaddict said:
Would have , could have , should have .. does not cut it

We talk here of how Djoker 2.0 is probably the best player of all time and it is an irony he has let the old man defeat him so many times . How do we say with a straight face Fed is overrated ?
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I never said Djoker is better than Fed.

What I am saying is the fact that Federer is struggling with 11 year older Agassi means age may not be as big a disadavntage as you think.
Also I gave the example of Sampras owning Agassi while Peak Federer struggling
 
On topic, Agassi often underperformed in the biggest matches at the USO in his younger years - he had a higher threshold than 2004-2005 but rarely reached it, on the flip side in 2004-2005 despite being physically worse mentally he was able to summon everything he had. In 2004 the last two sets were in ridiculous winds as well. Federer in 2015 was overall clearly better than older Agassi but he played within himself in big matches.
 
Objective observer said:
I never said Djoker is better than Fed.

What I am saying is the fact that Federer is struggling with 11 year older Agassi means age may not be as big a disadavntage as you think.
Also I gave the example of Sampras owning Agassi while Peak Federer struggling
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The fact is Agassi was 0-8 after 2002. Agassi barely won 5 sets against 20 for Fed.

In contrast , Fed has won close to 10 matches during this time frane

What part of this you are not getting ??
 
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Objective observer said:
Pretty aggressive mate

Anyway I am not talking about competition here
So age is irrelevant then why is any victory over Federer after 2012 considered grandpa even though it is possible he was playing at a very high level in those matches
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Because he's pretty old now. It's not hard. If Agassi had beaten Federer it would have been considered an upset, and rightfully so.
 
NatF said:
On topic, Agassi often underperformed in the biggest matches at the USO in his younger years - he had a higher threshold than 2004-2005 but rarely reached it, on the flip side in 2004-2005 despite being physically worse mentally he was able to summon everything he had. In 2004 the last two sets were in ridiculous winds as well. Federer in 2015 was overall clearly better than older Agassi but he played within himself in big matches.
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I mostly agree.
Still we hear Federer fans talk about much physical disadvantage being 6 years older is, being 11 years older should be a death sentence
 
Objective observer said:
Especially since I didn't even say anything controversial , I literally just stated an observation based on fact...
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I'm not bothered with his peak level, it's something that cannot be put to weight just like that. Fed having weak opponents in his Slam quest is a fact, well known fact. He is perfect example of good player vulturing on weak field and being pushed to something he didn't deserve to full extent.
 
TearTheRoofOff said:
Because he's pretty old now. It's not hard. If Agassi had beaten Federer it would have been considered an upset, and rightfully so.
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I agree but credit should still be given

Djokovic gets no credit for beating 6 years older Fed in slams
My point is it's not as easy as it's made out to be as even Federer himself had trouble with 11 year older Agassi
 
Objective observer said:


This is peak federer vs 35 year old 11 year older agassi

Look at how much federer is struggling against grandpa agassi
He was down a break in the third set and barely edged it out before agassi became tired

Peak fed was struggling with agassi's ballstriking

This is despite agassi being 11 years older!!
We all know how much fed fanboys cry about federer just being 6 years older than Djokovic

Also agassi had an extremely weak draw and barely beat journeyman ginepri in the semi yet he gave peak federer quite a scare LOL

Semi-retired Sampras owned Agassi in 2002 USO but absolute peak Federer was struggling against grandpa agassi in 2004, 2005 USO LMAO

Just shows how overrated Federer's peak is being matched from the baseline from a grandpa who is 11 years older LOL
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As Agassis ghost I can confirm this.
 
Objective observer said:
Care to discuss the points I raised? Try to attack the argument and not the person
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No.

Why? Because we've seen this stodgy, uncreative routine performed an endless amount of time within this forum, nearly every single week: Some new (or usually 'new') poster with some edgy username comes in, and their first act is to create a shrine of transparent, artless agitation following the template of "Player XYZ is overrated / won in a weak era / not goat / blah blah blah." Naturally, Federer is the most popular object of this sort of agitation, but fret not, the other players have received plenty of this 'love' as well. So you see, you are not presenting anything that hasn't been blathered to death a limitless amount of times already, in the same tired form that it has always been presented in.
 
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