Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
As far as peak level goes, Djokovic takes the AO with some resistance by Fed, Ned sweeps RG, and Fed and Sampras trade off at W/USO. PETE has a better chance than people think.
Peak Federer vs Peak Djokovic vs Peak Sampras vs Peak Nadal ..... Who will end up as year end 1 ?
- Thread starter Sunny014
- Start date
Sunny014
Legend
Bringing in Slams won at 34 to prove that compensate for Novak's inability to win YEC after age 28 ???
Federer has won 2 times after 28 while Novak 0, so this suggests that Fed is better as he has 6 YECs overall to Novak's 5, accepting facts instead of talking nonsense about slams won after 34.
That having said Fed himself won 3 slams at 35+ ... now that is a feat worth mentioning when we discuss slams, for now stick to YEC
You said YEC does not depend on age and I showed you stats and you diverting topic to nonsense ??? Is this your best argument??? even Nadal wins slams at 34 he has never won YEC in his life, do you understand how tough it is to win YEC after 27-28 ??? IT IS NOT A YOUNG MAN'S TOURNAMENT....
It really depends on the courts…
1990s/early 2000s I’ll give it to Fed but PETE could also do it if he was motivated year round (which he simply was not in real life, outside of a couple years)
2010s courts I actually have no idea. Probably between Djokovic and Federer coming down to neutral tourneys like IW and who makes the final at RG. The draws are a big factor in this, literally, in terms of how close it would be. Either way it would be ridiculous year round tennis.
1990s/early 2000s I’ll give it to Fed but PETE could also do it if he was motivated year round (which he simply was not in real life, outside of a couple years)
2010s courts I actually have no idea. Probably between Djokovic and Federer coming down to neutral tourneys like IW and who makes the final at RG. The draws are a big factor in this, literally, in terms of how close it would be. Either way it would be ridiculous year round tennis.
Sunny014
Legend
What if Peak Stanimal or Peak Safin beat Novak at the AO before he reaches Federer ?
Nothing is truly certain even for Novak.
Sunny014
Legend
For Pete 2 slams gone.
Apart from Roland Garros, he isn't going past Federer and Novak at the AO either, his game was not good enough to even beat Agassi who is at least close to these fellows at peak for peak.
Wimbledon and USO are the only hope for Pete and there Federer won't allow Pete to win most of the time, Pete's serve would be neutralized by Federer and Federer is a better baseliner + has a second to none record in tie breakers ....
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
The very best versions of Djokovic are a match for both of those players. They’d give him a heck of a fight, maybe soften him up for someone like Fed to take advantage, but I think peak Djokovic triumphs much more often than not against those guys.
Sunny014
Legend
Yeah, given the inconsistency of these fellows Novak might lose once or twice vs them but will get few more wins as well on other occasions because he is super consistent every year...
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1993 Pete was actually pretty good on clay actually. And he is the YEC king, I think he would be favored win Paris Masters, YEC, and Shanghai in all honesty. He was that dominant. He would have to bring it year round but if he did so he could 100% do it.
Don’t sleep on PETE. On faster courts his aces would bounce over Roger and Rafa’s heads into the stands at 130mph.
Don’t sleep on PETE. On faster courts his aces would bounce over Roger and Rafa’s heads into the stands at 130mph.
Sunny014
Legend
Federer is the King of tiebreaks .... Air Sampras is not as invincible as he looks on paper, definetly not vs Federer
On Wimbledon Grass (min 50 tbs played)
On HC Slams (min 50 played)
On Wimbledon Grass (min 50 tbs played)
| Rank | Country | Name | Tie-Breaks | Won | Lost | Played |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | SUI | Roger Federer | 71.25% | 57 | 23 | 80 |
| 2 | SRB | Novak Djokovic | 66.67% | 38 | 19 | 57 |
| 3 | USA | Andy Roddick | 63.64% | 35 | 20 | 55 |
| 4 | CRO | Goran Ivanisevic | 63.08% | 41 | 24 | 65 |
| 5 | USA | Pete Sampras | 61.54% | 32 | 20 | 52 |
| 6 | USA | Ivan Lendl | 60.87% | 42 | 27 | 69 |
| 7 | USA | Kevin Curren | 59.62% | 31 | 21 | 52 |
| 8 | GER | Boris Becker | 59.38% | 38 | 26 | 64 |
On HC Slams (min 50 played)
| Rank | Country | Name | Tie-Breaks | Won | Lost | Played |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | CAN | Milos Raonic | 70.77% | 46 | 19 | 65 |
| 2 | RUS | Marat Safin | 66.67% | 34 | 17 | 51 |
| 3 | SUI | Roger Federer | 64.00% | 64 | 36 | 100 |
| 3 | LUX | Gilles Muller | 64.00% | 32 | 18 | 50 |
| 5 | GBR | Andy Murray | 63.93% | 39 | 22 | 61 |
| 6 | SRB | Novak Djokovic | 63.53% | 54 | 31 | 85 |
| 7 | USA | Pete Sampras | 63.22% | 55 | 32 | 87 |
Sunny014
Legend
Roger Federer is toughest to ACE according to ATP stats in the modern era, good luck aceing him
roddick has a very good tiebreak record, but is 0 - 4 in wimbledon finals, where he faced tiebreak king (before 2019) federer.
Sunny014
Legend
True..... Fed is literally ahead of everyone in tie breaks in semis, finals, 1st week, everywhere..... no beating him if it goes to the wire, even Pete would struggle.
Federer and Djokovic are too much durable throughout the year and reliable across surfaces to have Sampras/Nadal ahead of them for rank 1.
Between Fed and Novak it is a close call, Federer I give more edge in Slams as he is equally fav in all 3 non clay unlike Novak who is a bit weaker on the faster slams, but Novak might score more in the masters while Fed will take the YEC. .... Possible Federer beats Novak closely to the YE 1 ....
Sampras and Nadal have no chance, god knows how these fellows are even getting votes, must be hardcore fanatics.
Sunny014
Legend
When I meant Sampras I had Sampras's entire generation/decade in my mind added with him + Big 3's generations too .... that all of them born in same year or with 1 yr gap .... I didn't mention peak Agassi because there was no specific peak agassi, it was unpredictable...
So with Sampras you get Agassi + his entire array of clay courters of the 90s (muster-kuerten-burguera-courier-kafelnikov etc etc) and also Safin-Wawrinka-Murray-roddick-hewitt etc etc ...... Thats the field that Big 3 + Pete will have to play to win slams...no free pass for nadal
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
lmao this thread is full of so many sour grapes towards nadal. the reality is that Nadal played peak Fed and peak Nole often and beat them often. “Topspin forehand to the backhand no?” would work even better against PETE
Sunny014
Legend
Fed/Novak, just 1 of them were at their peak when Nadal beat them, if they are both aged same as him then he would have to beat them back to back to lift the title on HCs or Grass, on top of that Pete as well would be a nightmare for him, already the dustin browns and kyrgios have troubled Nadal on grass, imagine what Sampras's serve can do, would be tougher to face all 3, Nadal cannot beat 2 of them back to back to win.
Federer, Djokovic and Sampras have the power to beat back to back ATGs outside clay, Nadal doesn't, on clay Nadal would be facing Sampras's generation of clay courters too since this is a package deal, with Pete comes his whole gen, so Nadal isn't winning those barcelonas and monte carlos with cakewalk draws, this time there will be up against a big group of hunters waiting for him Qf onwards even on clay. Except the FO nothing is certain for Nadal, not even his pet clay tournaments. Hence he won't be ending year end 1 in any scenario.
Sunny014
Legend
Federer/Novak will be semifinalist or finalist at USO and AO as well in your scenario, you forgot those points.
No way is Nadal ending up as 1, he wouldn't be sitting on 209 weeks at 1 while Djoko, Fed and Peter have 350, 310 and 286
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Sunny014
Legend
Nd how will Nadal get past Djokovic in the semis ?
Is Nole going to allow him to get past ? Even if by luck Nole loses it would be in 5 gruelling sets with the last set looking like 12-10 ..... what will he do in the final ???
Sunny014
Legend
As a matchup Djokovic is tougher for Nadal than Fed/Pete, I don't get it, how can you say Nadal will win over Novak ??
Plus look at the other slams, at AO now he will have Agassi/Safin/Pete, someone in the semis once in a while even if he avoid Fed/Novak and then in the final no escape ....now look at the USO, even there Pete and Agassi would be there, home boys who receive tremendous support, Federer would also be there and the courts at the USO favor them, then there is Novak too .....so many guys at the USO....
Also look at clay, I said Pete's generation would be there, that means Thomas Muster and others would also stand in his way to Rome/MC/Barcelona along with Novak, the path is rocky even on clay, you cannot blindly add all those titles to Nadal on clay as a foregone conclusion
Sunny014
Legend
Rubbish ... Federer has beaten Djokovic at the USO 3 times, in 07, 08 and 09 ... .and also had matchpoints in 2010 and 2011, .... Only the us open 2015 was a convincing win for Novak and even that could have turned on its head..... the H2H at USO for fed-novak should be 5-1 but now it is 3-3 thanks to some freak choking ...... the conditions at the USO favor Federer and Sampras....
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Sunny014
Legend
Don't be fooled by Federer not winning the US open since 2009 stat, the conditions there favor Federer bigtime, he choked there and later got unlucky due to age
In a peak vs peak scenario Fed would be a regular contender there for 13-14 years non stop, every year you can expect him in the semis/finals, and he would win a lot of those encounters ..... nothing less.
In a peak vs peak scenario Fed would be a regular contender there for 13-14 years non stop, every year you can expect him in the semis/finals, and he would win a lot of those encounters ..... nothing less.
abmk
Bionic Poster
"alwaysTennisUSO" doesn't know fed beat djoko at USO in 2008 and 2009.
prime nadal got thrashed by a variety of people at the AO, which is why he has only 1 AO.
08 Tsonga, 10 Murray, 14 Wawrinka (leaving Ferrer 11 where nadal got injured at start)
this guy Nadal won a grand total of 1 Queens title. But he'd be winning grass masters somewhat equal with fed, LOL.
Bo5 allows him to recover vs big servers/hitters on grass, unlike Bo3.
in 2011, nadal didn't have any significant injuries. Just got plain beat by Djokovic.
All in all, you are just a blind nadal sycophant, totally out of sync with reality.
Sunny014
Legend
Looks like you haven't seen those matches, both were in semis, Federer was completely owning Djokovic there, it was like a master against a punk type of a match.... the conditions were also faster then .... then USO has increased its bounce from 2010 onwards to favor Nadal .... there have been many reports in the media on this....
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer would IMO be the best player overall. But if they are playing in the same era and all at their peak, it would benefit Nadal a lot. Pete would suffer the most due to grass being his most dominant surface and Fed and Djoker being so good on hard court.
Year end ranking could be something like:
1. Federer (or Nadal if he absolutely dominates clay season and does damage on hard court too)
2. Nadal (or Federer in case he doesn't gain a lot of points from clay season).
3. Djokovic (Great everywhere but has two strongest possible rivals in his best tournaments).
4. Sampras (Doesn't gain many points in clay season and Fed and Djoker dominate best of 3 on hard courts).
Year end ranking could be something like:
1. Federer (or Nadal if he absolutely dominates clay season and does damage on hard court too)
2. Nadal (or Federer in case he doesn't gain a lot of points from clay season).
3. Djokovic (Great everywhere but has two strongest possible rivals in his best tournaments).
4. Sampras (Doesn't gain many points in clay season and Fed and Djoker dominate best of 3 on hard courts).
Sunny014
Legend
You gifted Shanghai to Djokovic?
Do you think Federer/Sampras won't win over Novak there?
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
How does Nadal get Indian Wells?
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
I'd give Indian Wells to Djoker. Maybe Miami too. The only hard court Master tournament I'd give to Nadal would be Canada. Cincy and Shanghai to Fed. I'm unsure what Masters 1000 tournaments would we favour Pete over the other 3. Probably the YEC.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
IW I might actually split between Fed and Novak because both were really good there in their best years. Might be getting greedy on that one though.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
It's still a bit on the slower side, so would favour Djoker slightly over Fed. Because of the high bounce, Nadal should also do well but can't win with Djoker and Fed around.
Djoker probably has more Shanghai titles than Fed but I'd still take Fed over him simply because I've seen their matches on fast hard courts and Fed usually is the better player.
Sunny014
Legend
Plus Shanghai arrived in 2009 when Fed was like 28.
Had it been around since 90s then that tourney would have been another Cincinatti for Roger, 6-7 titles for sure.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Their 2014 match is how I see they'd play each other at Shanghai Masters. Djokovic is excellent on fast courts too but Federer is just on another level.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
AO :-. 60-40 djo-fed
Iw fed
Miami Djo
Monte carlo Nadal
Madrid/Hamburg fed
Rome Nadal
RG nadal
Halle fed
Queens nadal
Wimbledon fed
Canada nadal
Cincinnati fed
Uso fed/djo/sampras
Shanghai fed/djo
Paris djo
Wtf fed/sampras
Sunny014
Legend
30 is fine for beating most of the locker room but when a young zoning ATG in early 20s arrives then energy levels matter and some other factors also come into play. Novak in 30s has been lucky to not have a young zoning ATG present, when such a guy arrives then defeats will come. That french open final 2021 or AO final 2021 would have been 4 sets loss in the presence of a young ATG and even wimbledon final he would not have won if such guys were present .... Fed had not 1 but 2 such guys below him..... Geniuses find a way to use their youth to win, mediocre guys struggle in their mid 20s too ....
Peak vs Peak is only way of determining who is better and for that an age gap 1-2 years at max is allowed or else same age needed, like Nadal-Djokovic.
Madinolf
Rookie
Delusionals think Federer declined at 29 and beating Roddick/Baghdatis is the highest peak.
Sunny014
Legend
Roddick has 5-4 H2H over your guru.
Surely Roddick must have done something right ..... huh ?
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
2011 Djokovic burns himself out by USO
2006 Fed gets whooped by Nadal at every turn
2010 Nadal brings the heat for big tournaments but loses to mugs at the smaller ones
Sampras gets annihilated because serve & volley went extinct for a reason
Sunny014
Legend
What about Agassi, Thomas Muster, Bruguera, Kuerten etc etc ? Will Nadal be cruising through the masters on clay in the presence of Thomas Muster ?
Madinolf
Rookie
Score of Thiem, Tsitsipas and Zverev vs Federer?
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
No one is remotely comparable to rafa on clay.
Vamossssssssssssssssssssss
Sunny014
Legend
Age difference?
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
AO:
Djokovic beats Agassi in the final, Fed & Safin semifinalists
RG: Nadal beats Kuerten in the final, Muster and Bruguera semifinalists
W: Sampras beats Federer in the final, Djokovic & Ivanisevic semifinalists
USO: Federer beats Sampras in the final, Nadal & Djokovic semifinalists
Djokovic beats Agassi in the final, Fed & Safin semifinalists
RG: Nadal beats Kuerten in the final, Muster and Bruguera semifinalists
W: Sampras beats Federer in the final, Djokovic & Ivanisevic semifinalists
USO: Federer beats Sampras in the final, Nadal & Djokovic semifinalists
Sunny014
Legend
Yes in best of 5, sure.
But in best of 3 Nadal can lose to Muster and Djokovic, you forgot that in 2011 Djokovic made Nadal his bunny on clay as well.... ?
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Madinolf
Rookie
There's age difference between Roddick and Djokovic too. Most of their matches happened when Nole was 20 and Roddick was 25.
Anyway keep thinking Roddick is a great opponent LOL
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
We're talking about peak rafa here
Sunny014
Legend
2011 was not far from Peak, it was almost peak Rafa and Novak did beat him in BO3, didn't he ?
Plus in 1995 even Thomas Muster was at his peak, he won almost every clay tournament he entered and defeated all sorts of clay courters that year in the finals..... such a guy can trouble Nadal in BO3
| 11-09-1995 | Bucharest | Clay | F | W | Thomas Muster (1) d. Gilbert Schaller (6) | 6-3 6-4 | Stats |
| 21-08-1995 | Umag | Clay | F | W | Thomas Muster (1) d. Carlos Costa (7) | 3-6 7-6(5) 6-4 | Stats |
| 07-08-1995 | San Marino | Clay | F | W | Thomas Muster (1) d. Andrea Gaudenzi (2) | 6-2 6-0 | Stats |
| 31-07-1995 | Kitzbuhel | Clay | F | L | Albert Costa (5) d. Thomas Muster (1) | 4-6 6-4 7-6(3) 2-6 6-4 | Stats |
| 17-07-1995 | Stuttgart Outdoor | Clay | F | W | Thomas Muster (1) d. Jan Apell | 6-2 6-2 | Stats |
| 19-06-1995 | St. Poelten | Clay | F | W | Thomas Muster (1) d. Bohdan Ulihrach | 6-3 3-6 6-1 | Stats |
| 29-05-1995 | Roland Garros | Clay | F | W | Thomas Muster (5) d. Michael Chang (6) | 7-5 6-2 6-4 | Stats |
| 15-05-1995 | Rome Masters | Clay | F | W | Thomas Muster (7) d. Sergi Bruguera (8) | 3-6 7-6(5) 6-2 6-3 | Stats |
| 24-04-1995 | Monte Carlo Masters | Clay | F | W | Thomas Muster (9) d. Boris Becker (2) | 4-6 5-7 6-1 7-6(6) 6-0 | Stats |
| 10-04-1995 | Barcelona | Clay | F | W | Thomas Muster (9) d. Magnus Larsson (7) | 6-2 6-1 6-4 | Stats |
| 03-04-1995 | Estoril | Clay | F | W | Thomas Muster (3) d. Albert Costa | 6-4 6-2 | Stats |
| 27-02-1995 | Mexico City | Clay | F | W | Thomas Muster (2) d. Fernando Meligeni | 7-6(4) 7-5 |
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