GabeT
G.O.A.T.
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Peak Federer vs Peak Djokovic vs Peak Sampras vs Peak Nadal ..... Who will end up as year end 1 ?
- Thread starter Sunny014
- Start date
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
Dude the levels of cope you are bringing here are embarrassing. Nadal singlehandedly broke Federer and brought and end to his reign. After Novak came into his peak, Nadal mounted the only sustained campaign of success against him with the 2013 season and despite the lopsided matchup advantage Novak enjoys against him, Nadal has dealt him more heartaches than Federer could ever hope to, including bageling Nole in a major final
Sunny014
Legend
You think Federer could not deal with heartaches but Nadal could, however from what I have seen it was Federer who even in old age was challenging Novak at wimbledon, uso type venues while a same aged Nadal became a mouse after 2013, you try to tell me that if all 3 were aged same then instead of Fed challenging Novak it would be Nadal ??? LOL, If Nadal was so good he would not be a 1 timer at the AO and 2 timer at the Wimbledon, for all I am concerned he is "lucky" that when he was a teenage prodigy in early 20s and at his physical peak while Fed was past his physical peak (late 20s) thanks to glandular fever and Novak was yet to attain his physical peak (he did that at 23-24 and he was still 1-2 years off it), Nadal's entire 2008-2010 form is between the transition period of Federer to Novak. In Tennis we all know that absolute peak is window thats lasts like 4-5 years at best, Fed's lasted from 03-07 until that glandular fever kicked in, NOvak's was from 11-15, so this period between 08-10 was where Nadal made glory and gave you an illusion that he can level with peak Fed/Peak Novak, however the way he lost from 12 onwards suggests that his peak levels are not good enough to take on multiple GOAT candidates at the same time.
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Sunny014
Legend
It was not Nadal that brought an end to Federer's reign, it was glandular fever that caused noticeable drop in peak levels for Federer and also caused so many fellows to beat Fed in 08, it was not just Nadal, the whole field was beating Federer
| Date | Tournament | Surface | Round | W/L | Match | Score | Stats |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 09-11-2008 | Masters Cup | Hard (i) | RR | L | Andy Murray d. Roger Federer | 4-6 7-6(3) 7-5 | Stats |
| 09-11-2008 | Masters Cup | Hard (i) | RR | L | Gilles Simon d. Roger Federer | 4-6 6-4 6-3 | Stats |
| 26-10-2008 | Paris Masters | Hard (i) | QF | LW | James Blake (11) d. Roger Federer (2) | W/O | |
| 12-10-2008 | Madrid Masters | Hard (i) | SF | L | Andy Murray (4) d. Roger Federer (2) | 3-6 6-3 7-5 | Stats |
| 11-08-2008 | Beijing Olympics | Hard | QF | L | James Blake (8) d. Roger Federer (1) | 6-4 7-6(2) | Stats |
| 28-07-2008 | Cincinnati Masters | Hard | R16 | L | Ivo Karlovic (16) d. Roger Federer (1) | 7-6(6) 4-6 7-6(5) | Stats |
| 21-07-2008 | Canada Masters | Hard | R32 | L | Gilles Simon d. Roger Federer (1) | 2-6 7-5 6-4 | Stats |
| 23-06-2008 | Wimbledon | Grass | F | L | Rafael Nadal (2) d. Roger Federer (1) | 6-4 6-4 6-7(5) 6-7(8) 9-7 | Stats |
| 25-05-2008 | Roland Garros | Clay | F | L | Rafael Nadal (2) d. Roger Federer (1) | 6-1 6-3 6-0 | Stats |
| 11-05-2008 | Hamburg Masters | Clay | F | L | Rafael Nadal (2) d. Roger Federer (1) | 7-5 6-7(3) 6-3 | Stats |
| 05-05-2008 | Rome Masters | Clay | QF | L | Radek Stepanek d. Roger Federer (1) | 7-6(4) 7-6(7) | Stats |
| 20-04-2008 | Monte Carlo Masters | Clay | F | L | Rafael Nadal (2) d. Roger Federer (1) | 7-5 7-5 | Stats |
| 27-03-2008 | Miami Masters | Hard | QF | L | Andy Roddick (6) d. Roger Federer (1) | 7-6(4) 4-6 6-3 | Stats |
| 13-03-2008 | Indian Wells Masters | Hard | SF | L | Mardy Fish d. Roger Federer (1) | 6-3 6-2 | Stats |
| 03-03-2008 | Dubai | Hard | R32 | L | Andy Murray d. Roger Federer (1) | 6-7(6) 6-3 6-4 | Stats |
| 14-01-2008 | Australian Open | Hard | SF | L | Novak Djokovic (3) d. Roger Federer (1) | 7-5 6-3 7-6(5) | Stats |
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
Dude seek help. Antipsychotics can be useful for people with delusional thought patterns
Sunny014
Legend
Nd you are here to help people get rid of their delusional thought patterns ? Does that work in your favor?
Looks like you are here to fight for Nadal and defend him, get a better job to do buddy. You clearly have no job than to convince other people that your own opinions are right, that is a cringeworthy need for approval. Take some therapy, maybe it will help you get rid of your sire bond with Nadal.
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
lmao you’re literally bringing the whole band of excuses back together including mono. I guess when your idol fails to meet expectations in reality you can always plug your ears and play make believe
Sunny014
Legend
My idol has been the GOAT for more than a decade now while yours is not even the best in any decade, and yes Mono is a valid reason, Fed lost to many people that year, nothing special about your clay expert winning.
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
lol none of the homogenization champs are GOAT, but if there was one it would clearly be Djokovic, not the guy who got his lunch money taken in his prime by RAFA on every surface. meanwhile Rafa is the undisputed eternal clay GOAT, by a margin that none of the other greats in history can claim
Sunny014
Legend
Federer will always be the most popular because everyone knows he is the GOAT, Rafa never took anyone's lunch money, Rafa remains a failure on hard courts and grass in his own decade compared to Federer
Fed won 3 AOs after Rafa's AO win while Rafa won 0
Fed woh 2 wimbledons after Rafa's 2010 wimbledon and also made few finals while Rafa won 0
Rafa remains inferior outside clay for eternity ..... haha
RS
Bionic Poster
Bring in the 2 clay slam debate. Nadal would have around 30 slams and would be well out of touch with the others.
RS
Bionic Poster
3 slams are on faster surfaces already.Why not 2 grass slams ?
Lets 1 Grass be superfast grass (like halle) and other be like the normal wimbledon grass
Let AO, FO and WImbledon be as it is.
We can replace USO with superfast grass with low bounce ....
Sunny014
Legend
AO should have medium bounce with ball travelling slow
USO should have low bounce with ball travelling fast
Wimbledon should have low bounce with ball travelling very fast
French can be high bounce and be superslow
But these days every slam has high bounce, it is as if ATP rigged this to favor Nadal but Novak benefitted from this a lot as well...
USO should have low bounce with ball travelling fast
Wimbledon should have low bounce with ball travelling very fast
French can be high bounce and be superslow
But these days every slam has high bounce, it is as if ATP rigged this to favor Nadal but Novak benefitted from this a lot as well...
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RS
Bionic Poster
Yeah they can make the clay a lower bouncing.
Rudiiii
Semi-Pro
Fed and Pete had a thing for each otherFederer/Pete/Novak will no doubt clash in 1 semi final but somebody will win that clash, whoever wins will reach the final and crush Nadal (assuming Nadal reaches the final).
Normally when 2 best guys in a tourney at their peak clash in semis then whoever wins crushes the inferior player in the final as we saw in the AO 2005, FO2021 and many other instances.
In Game of Thrones Terminology ............. Nadal is like Cercei Lannister waiting for Daenerys Targaryen to beat the Night King so that she can beat a tired Daenerys Targaryen, but like her brother Jamie Lannister told her ..... " Someone will win the war in the north, whoever wins will march south and crush us " .... Now that is a realistic assessment ..... In this scenario Federer is Daenerys Targaryen, Pete Sampras is Jon Snow and Novak Djokovic is the Night King. Whoever wins will march to the final and crush Nadal
(sex)RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
lmao thanks for your honesty
Sunny014
Legend
If Sampras can take away from Federer/Djokovic then Agassi+Muster+Bruguera+Kuerten+Chang+Courier can take enough away from Nadal as well preventing him from winning those pet masters on clay
6august
Hall of Fame
Djokovic or Nadal. Probably Nadal.
In this scenario, Peak Sampras wins Wimbledon and USO, peak Djokovic wins AO and FO of course belongs to Nadal. No Slam for Federer is obvious.
However, despite winning 2 Slams, Sampras doesn't care much about MS1000. Thus most of HC MS1000 go to Federer or Djokovic, All clay MS1000 go to Nadal.
WTF could belong to Federer.
In this scenario, Peak Sampras wins Wimbledon and USO, peak Djokovic wins AO and FO of course belongs to Nadal. No Slam for Federer is obvious.
However, despite winning 2 Slams, Sampras doesn't care much about MS1000. Thus most of HC MS1000 go to Federer or Djokovic, All clay MS1000 go to Nadal.
WTF could belong to Federer.
Sunny014
Legend
So WTF can got to Federer but Sampras will win W+USO ? R u in your senses ? Or are you just too biased in your hate for Federer? Sampras is inferior in tie breaks and his serve won't be troubling Fed in general, how you expect Sampras to win W+USO ? His backhand is also so poor ....
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Peak Djokovic 2011. 10-1 vs Federer and Nadal, highest level of aggressive tennis.
https://www.atptour.com/en/news/djokovic-2011-season-feature
FedEx ATP Rankings Points Among Big Three - Start & End Of 2011
https://www.atptour.com/en/news/djokovic-2011-season-feature
FedEx ATP Rankings Points Among Big Three - Start & End Of 2011
| Player | Start-of-season points | End-of-season points |
| Novak Djokovic | 6,240 | 13,630 |
| Rafael Nadal | 12,450 | 9,590 |
| Roger Federer | 9,145 | 8,170 |
Sunny014
Legend
Just counting Slams+Masters+YEC
Aus Open - Djokovic beats Federer in the final, Agassi and Safin are semi finalists
Indian Wells -Federer beats Djokovic in the final
Miami - Djokovic beats Federer in the final
Monte Carlo - Nadal beats Bruguera in the final
Rome - Nadal beats Muster in the final
Madrid - Federer beats Nadal in the final.
French Open - Nadal beats Gustavo Kuerten in the final, Bruguera and Courier are semi finalists
Wimbledon - Federer beats Sampras in the final, Djokovic and Roddick are semi finalists
Canada - Djokovic beats Nadal in the final
Cincinnati - Federer beats Sampras in the final
US open - Sampras beats Federer in the final, Djokovic and Nadal are semi finalists
Shanghai - Federer beats Sampras in the final
Paris - Sampras beats Djokovic in the final
YEC - Federer beats Sampras in the final
Federer - 9600+ points
Djokovic - Roughly 7000+ Points
Sampras - 6000+ points
Nadal - 5500 odd points
Peak Federer wins the YEC and is ranked 1
Aus Open - Djokovic beats Federer in the final, Agassi and Safin are semi finalists
Indian Wells -Federer beats Djokovic in the final
Miami - Djokovic beats Federer in the final
Monte Carlo - Nadal beats Bruguera in the final
Rome - Nadal beats Muster in the final
Madrid - Federer beats Nadal in the final.
French Open - Nadal beats Gustavo Kuerten in the final, Bruguera and Courier are semi finalists
Wimbledon - Federer beats Sampras in the final, Djokovic and Roddick are semi finalists
Canada - Djokovic beats Nadal in the final
Cincinnati - Federer beats Sampras in the final
US open - Sampras beats Federer in the final, Djokovic and Nadal are semi finalists
Shanghai - Federer beats Sampras in the final
Paris - Sampras beats Djokovic in the final
YEC - Federer beats Sampras in the final
Federer - 9600+ points
Djokovic - Roughly 7000+ Points
Sampras - 6000+ points
Nadal - 5500 odd points
Peak Federer wins the YEC and is ranked 1
6august
Hall of Fame
Pete's serve won't trouble Federer? Let me tell you something, Federer can deal very well with big serves from his generation because 99% of those serves are not followed by a net charging. He just blocks the serve then the point turns into a baseline battle with Fed is the better/upper hand. In the meantime, we all know that Pete's serve troubled Andre a lot, and Andre is widely considered a much better returner than Federer. Thus, saying Pete's serve wont trouble Federer is very ridiculous.
About Pete's backhand: 1/ His backhand is NOT poor, it's just not among the best backhands ever. 2/ He won't put himself into drive backhand rallies.
And one thing some forgot to mention: Clutch. Just ask all Federer fans who've watched both them, I'm sure that a lot of them will pick Sampras to play for their life, not Federer.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I never understood this logic of having to go by 2011 as a rule and not an anomaly. What happened from 2012-2014 and why does it not count? Lol
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
From 2012 to 2014 Rafa vs Novak was 7:6 in wins. Not the same as 5:0 in finals like in 2011 for Novak.
Sunny014
Legend
Federer is a league ahead of Agassi with his own serve and he also is no less than Agassi in returns, he is faster than Agassi ever was, it is no comparison, he is superior to both Sampras and Agassi. Pete won't be charging to the net, if he does then he will get passed every single time, there is no room for coming to the net.
Sunny014
Legend
It is amusing to see Pete fanatics dream of Pete winning W+USO in this era by coming to the net like he did in the 1990s, lol, Sampras will have to mould his game according to the modern era if he is to win anything, especially on slow grass, there won't be any servebotting here and coming to the net, the bazooka of the racquet will pass Pete every single time.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
It’s probably not all that meaningful since one match is never a very good sample size, but Fed read the Sampras serve really well in their 2001 Wimbledon match (and it wasn’t like Pete served particularly poorly either; it was a good serving performance overall from him). I don’t think Pete’s serve would be as overwhelming against a prime Federer as it’s made out to be here. Certainly, it’d still be a powerful weapon.
6august
Hall of Fame
Not only Federer but a wild card guy named Cowan also read Sampras serve very well during that Wimbledon campaign. That guy won ZERO title in his whole career and 2nd round is his best performance at the Wimbledon.
)))
Also, that pretty good Sampras won ZERO title in the entire season. Very very impressive for Federer )))
6august
Hall of Fame
I dont care about Agassi serve, speed, bla bla... all I want imply is saying Sampras' serve would not trouble Federer is very funny and ridiculous. Saying Federer's return is as good as Agassi is also very funny.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
You have no clue what you’re talking about. Check the stats on the matches.
uscwang
Hall of Fame
Nadal hands down since he wins most clay big titles anyway. That's 5500+ pts already. Plus semifinals or better at the other majors, another 2,250. Add changes at other ATP1000, he can push 10,000.
Novak, Federer, and Sampras will be about even on hard court and grass. No way they get close to 10,000.
Novak, Federer, and Sampras will be about even on hard court and grass. No way they get close to 10,000.
Sunny014
Legend
Sampras's serve definitely won't trouble Federer, it works vs mugs like Ivanisevic who have no baseline game or vs Agassi who was an unprincipled part timer in the 90s with a poor serve.....
Sunny014
Legend
We guys dream of Sampras-Federer-Djokovic dividing points outside clay among themselves, we even dream of all of them winning 1 slam each but in reality that won't happen, there is a high chance of whoever doing well in the first half of the season doing well in the second half as well ... So if Sampras is a non factor at the AO+FO and manage to lose wimbledon to Federer then there would be too much pressure to win the USO for him, while the confidence of Djokovic would be skyhigh after winning AO, or if Federer who will also be in the AO final for sure, assuming Fed wins it, that would do more his confidence ...,... In all cases I see Sampras not doing too well in the second half of the season, yes the courts do favor his but so does Federer's and if Sampras doesn't get many free points on his serve vs greater baseliners then he definitely is going down.
BGod
G.O.A.T.
I'm picking Sampras because of the schedule noobers.
AO-Novak
IW-Sampras
MI-Sampras
MC-Nadal
RM-Nadal
MD-Nadal
FO-Nadal
Halle & Queens split by Pete and Fed
WMB-Sampras
CAN-Federer
CIN-Sampras
USO-Sampras
SHG-Federer
PR-Djokovic
WTF-Fed or Sampras
I just think Sampras would excel at 2 of the Slams and likely all 3 of the US Masters, although if he only wins 2 of them he'd still be #1 and to assume Fed gets WTF is a bit much as Pete was great at the year ends. Nadal would slay on clay but not much outside so yeah.
AO-Novak
IW-Sampras
MI-Sampras
MC-Nadal
RM-Nadal
MD-Nadal
FO-Nadal
Halle & Queens split by Pete and Fed
WMB-Sampras
CAN-Federer
CIN-Sampras
USO-Sampras
SHG-Federer
PR-Djokovic
WTF-Fed or Sampras
I just think Sampras would excel at 2 of the Slams and likely all 3 of the US Masters, although if he only wins 2 of them he'd still be #1 and to assume Fed gets WTF is a bit much as Pete was great at the year ends. Nadal would slay on clay but not much outside so yeah.
Sunny014
Legend
Realistically speaking Sampras's backhand would be attacked by Nadal, Novak and Federer, all of them have more foot-speed than Sampras did.
You have gifted all the fast tournaments to Sampras ? As if Federer and co are mugs on fast courts ? How many times has this Sampras fellow won cincinatti ? Federer the GOAT of cincinatti and also at shanghai the similar conditions favor Fed .....Sampras never dominated outside slams in his era, he doesn't have the fitness to win so many points in this era of grinding.
Nadal's pet slam and masters are likely to stay as pets more so than Federer's and Djokovic's ones. I don't get this response. Nadal is the biggest force on a specific surface. You're saying that Agassi would take away from Nadal on clay more than Federer and Djokovic on hard? Or Kuerten is a bigger threat to Nadal on clay than Agassi to Federer/Djokovic on hard?
Sunny014
Legend
Yes....to the bolded part.
Sampras-Bruguera 1993
Legend
thats a good breakdown. I would say Peak Sampras owns the 2nd half of the year more or less which gets him the #1 spot (Mainly because of the W,USO,YEC win) . Djoker can't win much of anything outside of early HC tourneys and Nadal wont win off clay. Fed will grab a few titles but not enough
Very strange thing to say imo but if that's your take, sure. It's not like that we have to agree or something.
BGod
G.O.A.T.
I'm looking at a mix of surfaces so early 00s. That still tilts towards Pete. With regards to him racking up points.
93-95 Sampras won 1-3-2 Masters while going deep in at least a few others and grabbing 2 Slams along with F-W-SF at the WTF. He also won lesser tournaments like Sydney, Antwerp and Osaka/Lyon, etc.
When people say Sampras only focused on Slams and was lazy, they're talking about 98 onwards where he was only winning Wimbledon. 93-95 Sampras would absolutely get enough points around the tour.
Sunny014
Legend
Sampras was regular in the top 2 on ACES hit in the world from 92 onwards till 2002 with the only exception being in 1999 when he was like outside the top 10 in that stat..... however his decline had started and he was nothing in early 00s despite those aces hit.
He was too much dependent on serve, that sort of game would be murdered by someone like Roger Federer. I donno how these guys are saying Sampras will win wimbledon and US open even in fast conditions ?
Federer is a speed demon that feasts on players in these fast conditions, he used to toy with Nadal and Djokovic at Shanghai ... there is no way Sampras is beating Federer because baseline prowess is also important in fast conditions along with a good serve, everything is not serve, as baselining became a criteria for fast conditions Sampras started to go down too .....remember Hewitt troubling Samprs ? ..... Fed is like a more savage version of Hewitt...
Sunny014
Legend
@Nole Slam your vote ?
Sampras never had to go up against another ATG. Federer, Nadal and Djokovic each has played between 90-100 matches against ATG's.
It's a whole new ball game when a player is tested against another ATG. Before Nadal and Djokovic came along, when Federer was beating on Roddick, Hewitt and Co., we all thought he not only had the best talent, but the toughest mentality.
It's a whole new ball game when a player is tested against another ATG. Before Nadal and Djokovic came along, when Federer was beating on Roddick, Hewitt and Co., we all thought he not only had the best talent, but the toughest mentality.
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