Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tank_job, Aug 7, 2012.
Who wins - let's take HC as the surface as it splits grass and clay.
Graf beats Serena on every surface most of the time. Stefi was much too talented and crafty for Serena to handle
Who wins - Peak Bruce Lee vs Peak Jet Li?
Peak Serena beats peak Graf.
But Graf on an average day in her career beats Serena on an average day in her career.
When was peak Serena?
probably Graf would win but not all the time. Henin played kinda like Graf. She had a better topspin backhand but everything else not quite as good as Graf and most of Henin matches against Serena were pretty competitive.
What? Bruce Lee everytime. Not even close. Wushu while nice to look at is hardly effective.
Henin was super aggressive. Graf is slice slice slice slice slice, until the opponent gets tired and misses.
yeah but her slices were wicked. Graf could lose to Serena but it would be a competitive match, not a 0-6, 1-6 affair. She got the weapons to combat with Serena.
Serena would have pounded steffi easily. Steffi never faced anyone like Serena.
Serena hands down. Graf gonna chop her way to victory? Seles was better than Graf, much better, but she got conspiracied.
Here is an old Steffi beating a prime Venus Williams at the 1999 Wimbledon. I would rate prime Venus around equivalent to prime Serena.
Serena only leads Hingis 7-6.
Clay: Graf wins 9 out of 10
Grass: Serena wins 7 out of 10
Hard Courts: Serena wins 7 out of 10
Carpet/Indoors: Graf wins 6 out of 10
yepp, and hingis quit just before she got even more drubbing from the queen.
1999 was not prime Venus. Also if you think that was prime Venus it makes your asseration she is equal to prime Serena even more ridiculous when Venus didnt even make a slam final that year, something that even a fat untrained Serena is able to do in her worst years.
As for Li vs Lee..... are we talking about a fight or an acting competition? Neither one of them were fighters.
And here is an admittedly past-prime (but still before her final Slam) Steffi losing to a Serena who had not, at that point, even gotten to the quarterfinal of a Grand Slam.
Regardless of whom you support in this thread, this is one of my, probably, Top 10 favorite match highlights videos on YouTube.
Hingis was past her prime. Everyone knows Hingis peaked young, and won 3 straight over Serena (2000-2001), but then got injured and lost 3 in a row to Serena before retiring.
I say Graf wins. Only because I doubt how well Serena would handle Graf's wicked backhand slice.
Only thing Serena could beat Graf in is a crip walk competition.
rofl..congrats to you, I was wondering how long it would take someone to bring up her celebratory dance.
Haters gonna hate lol
Ok lets make things interesting
Who wins - peak Yip Man vs peak Bruce Lee
teacher vs student!!!!!!!!
All those "masters" are fragile old men in a weak era(see what I did there? did you see it?). Bruce put a premium on physical fitness. Dude has bigger lats than Michael Phelps.
They played each other twice and the head-to-head is 1-1.
Graf was not impressed with Serena's game.
They played three times.
Hong Kong 99 (HC): Despite a very good serving performance, the best of the three matches, there was not much else that Serena showed against Graf. On the other hand, Graf's forehand worked as well against Serena as anyone else. Graf could not have been impressed.
Sydney 99 (HC): Graf did not play very well, quite below her level in Hong Kong. Yet, she still won the match. Graf had even more reason not to be impressed.
Indian Wells 99 (HC): (I was at this match.) It was the worst Graf played of the three. Still, Graf somehow managed to get a break up in the third. Yes, Serena won the match, but in three sets and only after Graf crashed mentally. With how Graf was playing, a more impressive player would have blown Graf off the court, but Serena didn't.
Of the two W sisters, only Venus managed to defeat Graf soundly when she was not playing well. And I think Graf was impressed by that and also with how well Venus played when Graf was playing well. Graf took all her opponents seriously, but very few of them actually impressed her. Venus was such an opponent, Serena wasn't.
I wonder how impressed she is now
I'm glad you aren't Joe Pike, or this thread would be full of "YOU'RE ALL CLUELESS GRAF WOULD SMASH SERENA WITH A HAMMER AND YOU SHOULD ALL KILL YOURSELVES(last bit might be cut out by mods and rightfully so)". You're a sensible Graf fan, and thanks for that
The rational world does not care.
Serena does not care:
LMFAO good stuff
I have to agree.
Seles at her best was too much for Steffi.
I know we all love Steffi, but there's no way she could handle the power and serving ability of Serena when she couldn't handle Monica very well pre-stabbing.
To think otherwise is to engage onself in a comforting fantasy.
Except in 1999 Venus was not in her prime. She had not won a single grand slam yet and was wildly error prone.
In fact, she had not yet turned around the lopsided rivalry with Lindsay.
Had Steffi played Venus of 2001, it would have been a much different story.
LOL. How do you know who impressed Graf and who didn't?
Does she speak to you through a tin foil hat?
And nice excuse making of how Graf wasn't playing well at all of her encounters with Serena. Funny stuff.
Graff for sure.
Graf wins simply because she was more consistent than Serena and could run down a lot of Serena's shots. They'd have some great rallies, but Graf was ultimately more consistent from the baseline.
If Serena was serving at her best, she could win. But, most of the time, it would be Graf. A lot of these girls can't handle some of Serena's power. Graf could with both her rocket forehand and her consistent slice. Serena would struggle with Graf's slice--big time.
Unless Graf serves like Sampras, Serena will attack her serve like there's no tomorrow. Graf has never faced a returner like Serena.
LOL at this blatant lie. There was never a point where Seles dominated Graf in the head to head. Steffi always had the upper hand.
I think Serena will win on grass & hard, Graf on clay.
Graf's game is disturbed by big hitters' style.
I still very much remember that match, Graf was up a break in the third, and Serena had some injury in her foot, I think Graf underestimated Serena a bit, thought she wouldn't be able to win. and by the way mentioning how old Graf was in 1999 you have to take into account that Serena was only 17 with only 1 title.
Between 1990 when Seles emerged as a top contender and the stabbing in 1993, Seles led the matchup 4-3.
I didn't say she "dominated" Graf. I said at her best she was hard for Graf to handle and that is true.
I think it's pretty clear had Seles not been stabbed and not left the tour for nearly 2 years, Graf's record would be a little different than it turned out to be.
It's just wishful thinking to believe that Graf would be dominate over Serena Williams. But you can believe it, if it makes you feel better.
It's wishful thinking to believe that Graf would have won as many grand slams in a field like today where she would not be getting 4-5 cream puff matches every grand slam (like she enjoyed in her heyday).
doesn't this answer the question?
Serena's game is devastating especially when she was coming forward so much, and even serve and volleying.
Sampras like to me.
I don't think you can compare. Just let Graf be Graf and Serena be Serena.
People are so obsessed with ranking and comparing, I guess thats normal but still, sometimes we must not attempt
This post is full of logic...thus full of win!!
99 was not prime Venus. Her defense was best then but she became more offensive by 2000 and more consistent by 2001. Summer of 2001 was Venus' peak. Faster and more explosive than any other female player ever, with the biggest serve ever, and some of the best athleticism and improvisation ever, particularly on a fast surface!
I agree. Seles was "power player 1.0", essentially the first player who could hit the ball hard from both sides. And that gave Graf trouble. The sport has evolved to a point where it's almost impossible to achieve success without having solid ground strokes off both sides. So Serena playing like she did at Wimbledon and at the Olympics would just be too much for Graf to handle. And that sliced backhand of hers would be her achilles heel. Not to mention having to deal with Serena's serve and athleticism, which Seles simply did not possess.
1999 was Graf's last year as a pro. She's been through so many battles throughout her long career, and the body breaks down which she had multiple injuries. While Venus was inexperience, she was young and in better shape than Graf.
Serena at her peak is Unbreakable.
one thing is certain, Graf's and Serena's grand slam wins would have been less had they competed in the same era.
Sorry to change the topic a bit, but....
I think the whole "(How many slams would Monica have won/would she be GOAT/would half the world's juniors be hitting 2HFHs) if not for the stabbing?" is played out. But something that does interest me is, how would a peak '91-'93 (or a never stabbed) Monica had handled the big hitters of 1997-present? Because late-career Monica and her suspect movement struggled more than Steffi against them, it would seem. By my calculation, a 5-23 record against Venus/Serena/Davenport. I haven't dug too deep into it, but I know she had a winning record against Capriati. I wonder what the breakdown of W/L are for comeback-Monica vs. comeback-Capriati.
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