MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Look at the power in these groundstrokes and her movement
this was for "revenge" after the FO incident with Justine lol. You never wanna play Serena when she's mad at you. Ask Maria 
Peak Serena was a beast o_O
- Thread starter MichaelNadal
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Look at the power in these groundstrokes and her movement
this was for "revenge" after the FO incident with Justine lol. You never wanna play Serena when she's mad at you. Ask Maria
MS_07
Semi-Pro
Look at the power in these groundstrokes and her movement
she still is ! any doubt ?!
D
Deleted member 770948
Guest
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
Look at the power in these groundstrokes and her movement
Ask Maria? Sharapova would tell you how she destroyed peak Serena at the 2004 Wimbledon final.
ibbi
G.O.A.T.
In those peak years I think she was arguably pound for pound the greatest athlete on the planet. It wasn't the power that did it, it was that movement, it was her all court game. Watching her rush the net for the drive volleys was something. Hard to maintain that, and it indeed didn't last long before the injuries piled up, and the weight piled on, and she was never the same, but gosh darn.
2000-2001 when Venus was on top you just knew, we had that warning at the USO in 99 that Serena had something special and as soon as she got it all together mentally she was going to be the one, and so it was, and how.
2000-2001 when Venus was on top you just knew, we had that warning at the USO in 99 that Serena had something special and as soon as she got it all together mentally she was going to be the one, and so it was, and how.
D
Deleted member 770948
Guest
Martina Hingis is 17-17 vs. Williams.
6-7 vs. Serena.
11-10 vs. Venus.
6-7 vs. Serena.
11-10 vs. Venus.
D
Deleted member 768841
Guest
Serena is pretty good, even nowadays, maybe her racquet change will help snag her some more slams, if we have anymore.
heftylefty
Hall of Fame
It can be said Graf never dealt with a female equivalent of the Big 3 either. So what is your point?
TennisLBC
Professional
Imagine how amazing that win at Wimbledon would have been if you can have follow up her 2 match winning streak against Serena 6 months later at the 2005 Australian Open.Ask Maria? Sharapova would tell you how she destroyed peak Serena at the 2004 Wimbledon final.
I guess getting owned by both a Serena peaking and a Serena in declining would driving anyone into retire.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
That both Graf and Serena benefitted in weak eras where they never faced elite competition. That's my point.
WilPro
Semi-Pro
this was for "revenge" after the FO incident with Justine lol. You never wanna play Serena when she's mad at you. Ask Maria
Wow, revenge. Guess what was that for. One woman dared to raise an arm when Serena was serving. God, what a huge offence, what a sin she committed in front of the God. No one is allowed to move a hair when the favorite of the USA is breathing.
That deserves REVENGE. Murica never got over one small incident that otherwise shouldn't even be mentioned. Because Murica is sick inside their heads.
And Murican tennis fans never got over that incident. But they supported many way worse antics of Serena such as threatening to kill a lineswoman, ruining the trophy of a fellow woman, threatening a female umpire, and still claiming she is feminist. What is wrong with muricans?
Truth to be told Serena never had anything interesting to watch in a tennis match. Just power and nothing else. No finesse, no nothing. Justine Henin was by far the most enjoyable female player to watch.
Subway Tennis
Legend
Look at the power in these groundstrokes and her movement
The classic line for me is the Serena vs Justine match where someone yelled out "You're BETTER than her Justine!" as a way of supporting Henin.
Lol Serena heard her. Probably the second biggest clanger from a crowd member after the "One more point" buffoonery at Wimbledon 2019
I'm a big Justine fan, but 2002 era fastcourt Serena beats all comers.
I still can't figure out how anyone beat her. The defensive speed, attacking speed, execution under pressure, and power, plus she used an absurdly powerful racquet, much different to what she uses now. It's the most dominant package ever to take the court save for Nadal on clay.
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
That both Graf and Serena benefitted in weak eras where they never faced elite competition. That's my point.
That's a fairly accurate statement, though I'd say Graf's top level competition was a bit tougher. In comparison, imagine Fed's slam count if he NEVER had to deal with a Nadal or Djokovic... or even to a lesser extent Murray. That's what Serenas career has been like. No rilvary. No other goat caliber player to measure herself with. Fairly clear sailing. If Fed had had the same caliber of competition as Serena, he'd be sitting on at least 30 slams. Which is why any discussion on who is greater is absurd.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
She was getting around the court like it was nothing lol
Jaitock1991
Hall of Fame
How do you measure the absolute level of the players that Serena, Fed or really any player was up against?
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
You look at their consistency and their W/L record against the field and how competitive they are in the Slams and Masters. Those are the main factors.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Funny thing was Serena Williams won the Australian Open in 2007 and then proceeded to lose RG, Wimbledon and USO to Henin that same year.
Look at the power in these groundstrokes and her movement
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
Well, it's what people do here, around the clock, since this website opened. Compare slams, tournaments and matches won, and who they won them against, who they lost against, mental strength...as well as longevity and consistency. You can't see a difference between these 2 groups (Fed, Djokovic, Nadal) and (Serena, Sharapova and Henin)? First group 3 all time tier 1 greats who battled against each other throughout most of their careers. Second group...obviously no comparison.
skaj
Legend
Goat caliber yes, they just couldn't use that potential - because they had to deal with Serena(and each other).
skaj
Legend
That both Graf and Serena benefitted in weak eras where they never faced elite competition. That's my point.
Serena however faced the toughest competition/era in the WTA history.
skaj
Legend
Look at the power in these groundstrokes and her movement
Serena, who I was never a fan of, had very tough competition between 98-08. There was: still tough Graf, Henin, Sharapova, Davenport, Hingis, Ivanovic, Jankovic and Clijsters. Overall, Serena's competition was much tougher than Graf's, after the Seles stabbing.That both Graf and Serena benefitted in weak eras where they never faced elite competition. That's my point.
WilPro
Semi-Pro
Graf was at the end of her career. 97-98 were her final years. She didn't even matter at all. Jankovic and Ivanovic were both crap. Sharapova was weak mentally.
It's more like Federer not having to compete with Rafa and Nole and saying he had tough competition: Safin, Nalbandian, Sampras, Agassi, Hewitt, Roddick and the whole bunch of losers and players facing retirement. And calling that a competition.
If it was supposed to be a joke it's cool but otherwise there is no logic in that.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Come off it. Serena dominated one of the hardest periods in womens tennis in the open era. You can try to simplify it but it won't work in this case. She's had it easier this second run, but those girls were hitting the ball till 09.
WilPro
Semi-Pro
It's simple to get the truth. To have competition you need one or two strong opponents that are consistent for many years and can beat you anytime, like Nole and Rafa for Fed. Serena didn't have one or two arch rivals that could defeat her anytime or who defeated her regularly.
Think of one woman that was the equivalent of Nole or Rafa for Serena. You don't have such players to pit against Serena.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
skaj
Legend
Don't forget her sister
Also, many other very solid players like Mauresmo, Capriati, Kuznetsova, Dementieva...
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Seles is easily their equivalent pre-stabbing.
skaj
Legend
Henin and Venus are the two strong opponents. However, all at their best, Serena has the edge over them. That might be the difference, which means Serena is more dominant on WTA than Federer on his equivalent tour.
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
Soon? Long past, you mean
ADuck
Legend
Declined Big 3 still make the mens' field far superior to the current womens' field.
But yeah I guess your right, it's technically still declining.
Jaitock1991
Hall of Fame
I get that, and at the end of the day it's probably the only way that we can even get close to an objective measurement of it. Here's the problem though; if the quality of the field at any given time fluctuates as much as much as we are being told it is(essentially the base of the strong/weak era arguments), then this becomes an inaccurate method imo.
You could make the argument that players having relatively bad stats(as in numbers that show a low degree of domination compared to other "eras") is an indication of strong opponents rather than weak, and from there conclude that strong opponents = strong tour. If a high number of players are really great, then chances are none of them will be dominating.
Hypothetically: if all the greats throughout the history of the game would peak at the same time, who would dominate? Probably nobody, and seeing any of them winning more than around 5 slams each would seem unlikely. The leader of the world ranking would change on a weekly/monthly basis, as would the top 10. The absolute quality of the top 10 would be astronomically high, yet when we'd look at the numbers we would conclude it's the weakest ever.
WilPro
Semi-Pro
Henin and Venus? They are more the equivalent of Nalbandian and Waw, not even close to Djokovic and Nadal. They should have come close to Serena's number of GS as Nole and Rafa did. They were not even close.
skaj
Legend
As I explained in the post you commented, Serena was one of the main reasons why they did not win many more slams. The other reasons - Henin retired at 25(+ a 6 months comeback, lost a slam finals to S), Venus has an auto-immune illness that was affecting her physical performance in the second half of her career.
First of all to compare the competition of the the men and women's tour is senseless. Simultaneous 3 peak GOAT contending players is rare. Federer had it fairly easy till about 08 off clay. Once Nadal and then Novak reached their near peak and peak play, Roger's slam count became more rare off grass. I believe that when Justine first retired in 08 she had won 7 slams while Serena had 8. Justine had 3 YE at #1, Davenport had 4, Serena had only 1 in 02
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
ibbi
G.O.A.T.
This dismissal of her competition during this period is laughable, really. There's no Nadal, Djokovic, Federer in terms of consistency except when she and Venus played the four slam finals in a row, but that is generally a phenomenon in the game specific to the dumbing down of the game in the past decade.
This period of the WTA up until about 2006/07 was one of the strongest eras in tennis history. From the tail end of Graf and the brief, beautiful reign of Hingis, Venus at her pomp, Davenport, Capriati's resurgence, the two Belgians, Mauresmo, Mary Pierce's brief comeback in 2005, and then from 2004 onwards the Russians.
These girls pretty consistently went deep in slams again and again and again, when Mauresmo and Clijsters are the comparatively weak ones in an era (Kim Clijsters who went on to be god of hardcourts in the pissant period after her comeback) you know things are strong. Even the fringe top tenners like Petrova and Schnyder were pretty consistently impressive.
I'm the first to point out the past decade in the womens game has been a joke and adds maybe 5% to Serena's legacy, but that first half of the 00s decade was gloriously competitive, and she won more majors in that period than anyone else did. Her legacy is built on them years.
This period of the WTA up until about 2006/07 was one of the strongest eras in tennis history. From the tail end of Graf and the brief, beautiful reign of Hingis, Venus at her pomp, Davenport, Capriati's resurgence, the two Belgians, Mauresmo, Mary Pierce's brief comeback in 2005, and then from 2004 onwards the Russians.
These girls pretty consistently went deep in slams again and again and again, when Mauresmo and Clijsters are the comparatively weak ones in an era (Kim Clijsters who went on to be god of hardcourts in the pissant period after her comeback) you know things are strong. Even the fringe top tenners like Petrova and Schnyder were pretty consistently impressive.
I'm the first to point out the past decade in the womens game has been a joke and adds maybe 5% to Serena's legacy, but that first half of the 00s decade was gloriously competitive, and she won more majors in that period than anyone else did. Her legacy is built on them years.
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
. .6-1, 6-4: .is destroyed?Ask Maria? Sharapova would tell you how she destroyed peak Serena at the 2004 Wimbledon final.
. .Serena won roughly 30% of the games in that match. In their head-to-head, Sharapova's only won a pitiful 9% of the time. . 9%.
. .They've played 22 times. Sharapova has won 2 times. . Now THAT's getting destroyed, Lobmeister. . : )
.
.
heftylefty
Hall of Fame
Seles is one person. The WTA is never been more that two player deep. And Seles and Serena games are strikingly similar.
heftylefty
Hall of Fame
To be fair, Maria almost stopped Serena from giving her a bagel after blowing 5 set points...in first set of a gold medal match on the same Centre Court where she "destroyed" Serena.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Take away the knee injury, best there was, is, and who knows. Add that knee injury, best ever. There is that Canadien Crippler,
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
The full/crispy quality 2001 USO final has been uploaded
They had won the last 2 USO's, huge match
They had won the last 2 USO's, huge match
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