Adriano Panatta
Rookie
Peak Tsonga (AO 2008,Wimbledon 2011,Roland Garros 2012 and ATP Finals 2011) is better of peak Thiem and peak Medvedev(the best player of his generation) with the exception of Us Open?
Peak Tsonga(AO 2008,Wimbledon 2011,Roland Garros 2012 and ATP Finals 2011) is better of peak Thiem and peak Medvedev (with the exception of Us Open)?
- Thread starter Adriano Panatta
- Start date
TheFifthSet
G.O.A.T.
Better than both at Wimby, better at their best 1 or 2 tries at the AO (Med might have the better “sustained prime”), better than Med at RG and similar to both indoors (Paris ‘08 is one of the most underrated runs).
Adriano Panatta
Rookie
Tsonga 2008 semifinal vs Rafa destroyed Medvedev and Thiem in AO (3-0 vs Medvedev).He played like Peté Sampras for one day.
Sputnik Bulgorov
Hall of Fame
Tsonga is a forgotten name here, but I firmly believe his peak level is beyond any other player I've seen after Djokovic. That includes Del Potro and Cilic, and definitely all of the lost gen afterwards like Thiem, Dimitrov, Raonic, Nishikori, Medvedev, Tsitsipas and Zverev. The 2008 semifinal destruction vs Nadal is underrated because Nadal hadn't won a hard court slam at the time, but people forget that Nadal was on a roll and hadn't lost a set! In his post match interview, Nadal said he was playing well enough to win the tournament if not for Tsonga.
No_Kwan_Do
Professional
Peak Tsonga would have won a slam in this era.
In the golden age, you weren't just taking out one of the big 3 like you have to do now. Often you had to take out 2 of them, and occasionally 3 i.e Berdych Wimbledon 2010. That's an impossible feat at slam level. Then you put someone like Murray into the mix, who reached 30 slam QFs in a decade.
In the golden age, you weren't just taking out one of the big 3 like you have to do now. Often you had to take out 2 of them, and occasionally 3 i.e Berdych Wimbledon 2010. That's an impossible feat at slam level. Then you put someone like Murray into the mix, who reached 30 slam QFs in a decade.
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Sputnik Bulgorov
Hall of Fame
Tsonga's 2008 AO SF and 2011 Wimbledon QF are still two of the craziest slam performances I've seen. The 2008 AO SF was a masterclass in volleying while the 2011 Wimbledon QF was a masterclass in serving. In the latter, Tsonga only faced 1 break point in the entire match against Federer, and zero in the last 4 sets.
TheFifthSet
G.O.A.T.
Some of my favourite obscure clutch stats, which I often repeat:
There were 25 points after the first set of their ‘11 QF where Fed got to 30 or Deuce on a return game. Tsonga hit a winner or forced an error in 20 of ‘em, and landed his first serve in 84% of the time (21/25)…93% (14/15) when in a position where losing the next point would’ve brought about a BP.
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abmk
Bionic Poster
sticking to slams, peak tsonga
definitely better than Med at AO, RG and Wim
definitely better than Thiem at AO and Wim
Thiem I would give the edge at RG for the full slam.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Unquestionably. AO and WB aren't the least bit close. RG I'm giving the nod to Tsonga too, doubt Thiem would get to MPs against 2012vic. YEC is close either way.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Let's not forget Tsonga was also breadsticked twice in this match. In general, he didn't do enough in RG for me to overrate his peak level there.
Adriano Panatta
Rookie
He played a good match vs Wawrinka in 2015. But his peak at Wimbledon and AO is very better.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Not at RG, that's for sure. As good as Tsonga was on clay, he didn't reach a single RG final, while Thiem reached 2 consecutive RG finals (and 4 consecutive RG SFs) and beat a Novak who had won the last 3 Slams in a row in a SF.
At the USO Tsonga has 0 performance comparable to Thiem's epic clash against Nadal in the USO 2018 QF classic. Not to mention, Thiem is a USO champion, while Tsonga failed to reach a single USO final. Thiem > Tsonga both at RG and the USO.
As for hard courts.,, Medvedev is a VASTLY superior USO player. The USO wasn't played on particularly fast hard courts in the 2010s and early 2020s, and Medvedev's superior defense gives him the edge (and the superior resume at the event, one is a USO champion beating Novak in the process and 3 times finalist while the other has never reached a single USO final). The AO, on the other hand, has been being played on a faster surface as of lately, so Tsonga's offensive kittool would probably give him an edge over Medvedev (untestable, anyway).
In any case, I'd easily choose peak Tsonga over peak Roddick at both the AO and RG. UNDISPUTED.
At the USO Tsonga has 0 performance comparable to Thiem's epic clash against Nadal in the USO 2018 QF classic. Not to mention, Thiem is a USO champion, while Tsonga failed to reach a single USO final. Thiem > Tsonga both at RG and the USO.
As for hard courts.,, Medvedev is a VASTLY superior USO player. The USO wasn't played on particularly fast hard courts in the 2010s and early 2020s, and Medvedev's superior defense gives him the edge (and the superior resume at the event, one is a USO champion beating Novak in the process and 3 times finalist while the other has never reached a single USO final). The AO, on the other hand, has been being played on a faster surface as of lately, so Tsonga's offensive kittool would probably give him an edge over Medvedev (untestable, anyway).
In any case, I'd easily choose peak Tsonga over peak Roddick at both the AO and RG. UNDISPUTED.
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Adriano Panatta
Rookie
Thiem 2019 is better but i prefer Tsonga 2012 in a match vs Thiem 2016/17/18
TheFifthSet
G.O.A.T.
I think a mid-70’s DOB Jo would excel from ‘98-‘03 too, but yeah…’08-‘13 (Jo’s prime) was about the worst time to be a “best of the rest” kind of player.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
There's no difference between 2017/2018 and 2019's Thiem at RG. He was facing an unstoppable version of Nadal, that's it. Put 2019 Thiem facing 2017 Monsterdal and he'd have had the same result than in 2017.
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AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
He did, but he also played enough good tennis in the right moments to get to MP in the first place. Don't see Thiem having the mental fortitude for that.
BauerAlmeida
Legend
I think I give the edge to Thiem because he had strong weapons of both wings, not the case with Tsonga.
Medvedev is a bit below Tsonga (and Thiem) when it comes to peak level but he is a better player. Much more consistent and his average level is higher, which is more important. Calleri or Gulbis have higher peaks than Hewitt but they are vastly inferior players.
Medvedev is a bit below Tsonga (and Thiem) when it comes to peak level but he is a better player. Much more consistent and his average level is higher, which is more important. Calleri or Gulbis have higher peaks than Hewitt but they are vastly inferior players.
BauerAlmeida
Legend
Wimbledon is not close, RG is certainly is.
Adriano Panatta
Rookie
Yes Nadal in 2017 is incredible:for me the 4* best Roland Garros after 2008,10 and 12 but Nadal 2018 is simply very good (same level of 2005,06,2011,2013...) and Thiem would win a set if his level is the same of 2019 imo
Adriano Panatta
Rookie
Adriano Panatta
Rookie
inflation_era
Professional
If Thiem had beaten Nadal in one of their encounters, then Nadal was injured or in a slump. That's how it works there. See FO2015 for an example.
RS
Bionic Poster
that's how it works because Thiem is nowhere near the player Nadal is on clay, even old Nadal.
D
Dwell
Guest
Peak Tsonga's stop volleys were COLD
D
Dwell
Guest
Peak Thiem had the groundstrokes but lacked the wits and shot selection. IQ diff
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
How do you know if you didn't watch tennis even in 2019?
jl809
Legend
One might think this is sarcastic but it’s just true
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Fed definitely got the toughest QF that year among the Big 3 and Murray. Against any of their opponents he would've advanced to the semis.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I watched a bit of his match vs Nadal at USO 2018. Trying to hit BHs from 10 meters behind the baseline is now how you play Nadal. Even Federer would do better than that.
Adriano Panatta
Rookie
I‘ m very happy, Tsonga has the right consideration in this forum.If he was born in 1995 maybe he would have won 2/3 slam(now the surface of Us Open and Finals is faster than 10 years ago) .Also i think he would was a better player with one handed backhand, his game is similar to some great player of 90’.
Sputnik Bulgorov
Hall of Fame
Thanks for the stats. That’s just wild. Fed was playing well (2011 is an underrated slam year for him in general), but when Tsonga is feeling it on serve like this, there’s not much to be done. Had forgotten that Fed was a point away from BP so often, but was outclutched every single time.
abmk
Bionic Poster
I was going to wait for your response in other thread to give one final chance , but I'm done. you are pathetic at evaluation and do BS to prop up DJokovic and put down fed competition like hewitt. just because calleri beat a past prime hewitt at USO doesn't mean he has a higher peak.
So off to ignore you go.
BauerAlmeida
Legend
You have serious comprehension issues. It says they are "vastly inferior" players to Hewitt. Not to mention Calleri was from Federer's generation anyway lol, not Rafole.
RS
Bionic Poster
Fed gets a 4 set loss were as he would lose in 3 in real life.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Another annoying win for Djokovic.
serbiavic
Professional
I do think BauerAlmeida is a pretty reasonable Djokovic fan and there are plenty of Djokovic trolls. I may not agree with every single post of his, but his posts are definitely informative.
A one-handed backhand Tsonga born in 1990/1991 would have won at least 1 Wimbledon in 2016-2018 period.
abmk
Bionic Poster
I thought he used to be decent, even if I disagreed with many posts of his. But his latest posts have shown such worsening. stuff like putting down hewitt above, not acknowledging weak competition in 2016-current, especially 2020-current, ponting out bjorkman in Wim 06 as evidence of weak draw (when fed faced 6 others with grass court calibre and capability - gasquet, henman, mahut, berdych, ancic and nadal - making it a deep draw, though not tough) etc. etc.
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Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
Tsonga hand-picked that specific moment to GOAT - at the time, one of the most shocking results around but Fed at least straightened the record in the US Open QF
abmk
Bionic Poster
Calleri, Gulbis do not have higher peaks than Hewitt. Its insulting/ignorant to suggest that. I do not have comprehension issues.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
That's a strange thing to say. You might argue Gulbis peaked higher than Hewitt on clay, even that is not a given but within the realm of possibility at least. Hard to argue anything for Calleri, and certainly impossible to argue for either off clay in any way so their overall peaks are not in the vicinity of Hewitt's ever.
Adriano Panatta
Rookie
RS
Bionic Poster
Maybe it was meant as in sections of a match.
