Pegging the Net Guy

[MisterP]

I think they usually have to provide consent

If your partner has a lollipop serve and you stay at the net, consent is implied. It’s tennis common law.

 

[Badmrfrosty]

If your partner has a lollipop serve and you stay at the net, consent is implied. It’s tennis common law.

Please no one google pegging. DO NOT.

 

[PrinceYonex]

I clearly mis-titled this thread. My bad.

 

[MisterP]

Please no one google pegging. DO NOT.

Or if you do, make sure your browser is in Incognito Mode. ‍

 

[PrinceYonex]

You have to hit every firm volley or overhead towards the shallower player. If you hit towards the deeper opponent those balls come back. I'm not thinking of hitting at the net player so much as I'm thinking of angling the volley or overhead away from the deep player. The opposing net player needs to learn to take care of himself as he should know he's in the way of the appropriate shot.

This is a great point and puts a very different angle on the issue -- the opponent is in the way of the appropriate shot; but also, in some cases, where you are trying to jam the opponent or force an error, their position is precisely why it is the appropriate shot.

 

[nyta2]

I think they usually have to provide consent

and a safe word

 

[Chalkdust]

to be fair, most folks in rec don't have control of their overhead... so i aim for the "biggest" space... and if you happen to be standing there (as you should to guard it)
it's my responsibility to turn my back to defend myself, AND move away (to not get hit)
i guarantee that if you gave me the 10 overheads to hit the back of your head, i'd probably miss all 10 times (maybe other body parts, by accident), but that's just damn hard to aim.

Absolutely, which is why across 15 or so years of playing league and such, that was probably the only time I really believe an opponent was deliberately trying to hurt me with an overhead. I've been hit countless times, but as you say the vast majority are accidental and not intended to injure. Anyway, hard to prove intent, but that was the strong feeling I got given the circumstances, the body language, etc.

 

[Legend of Borg]

That title is really out there.

 

[MRfStop]

Question for vets of USTA leagues: I'm playing in a combo 7.5 doubles league. In the first set, the opponent hits a soft second serve, and I decide to hit the return fairly hard right at the body of the net guy, rather than go with a conservative cross court shot. When I say a soft second serve, I mean that I'm standing inside the baseline and teeing off on the ball. I did this twice, in fact, both times I caught the net guy off guard and won the point straight off. He was able to get his racquet on the ball, so it didn't actually hit him, but he didn't seem to like this -- even went after me at the net later in the match (which I thought was fine). I considered a body shot like this to be totally legitimate. It's adult rec league tennis -- peg or be pegged!
And I wanted to get in the head of the server about dumping a softy for his second serve.
Did I cross the line, in terms of etiquette?

 

[Dartagnan64]

This is a great point and puts a very different angle on the issue -- the opponent is in the way of the appropriate shot; but also, in some cases, where you are trying to jam the opponent or force an error, their position is precisely why it is the appropriate shot.

yeah its a win win option. It keeps the ball away from the only guy with the time to return it and puts the ball into the place where the opponent has no time to react. That's why it is in all cases the only real winning option. Now if you have time and touch enough to hit a drop volley angled away from the net player, then fine, do that. But most of us are better at punch volleys and they need to go in a different direction.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Good comments with smartering of 4chan /b ****iz.

 

[Cashman]

Good comments with smartering of 4chan /b ****iz.

Speaking of people with things up their butts

 

[zaskar1]

Question for vets of USTA leagues: I'm playing in a combo 7.5 doubles league. In the first set, the opponent hits a soft second serve, and I decide to hit the return fairly hard right at the body of the net guy, rather than go with a conservative cross court shot. When I say a soft second serve, I mean that I'm standing inside the baseline and teeing off on the ball. I did this twice, in fact, both times I caught the net guy off guard and won the point straight off. He was able to get his racquet on the ball, so it didn't actually hit him, but he didn't seem to like this -- even went after me at the net later in the match (which I thought was fine). I considered a body shot like this to be totally legitimate. It's adult rec league tennis -- peg or be pegged!
And I wanted to get in the head of the server about dumping a softy for his second serve.
Did I cross the line, in terms of etiquette?

league is competitive, there is nothing wrong with hitting at the net person. they should stand back if they are afraid of being tagged.
just apologize afterwards, but keep doing it if they keep serving up powder puffs
z

 

[Moon Shooter]

The tennis rules allow it, but I don't think there are clear social rules across the board on this in rec tennis. I would say read the room.

If you are in a situation where you don't want to hit hard at the net player who is close to the net (for whatever reason) but also don't want to completely waste the advantage of weak second serve, then lobbing over the net player works pretty well. It may not be as good as hitting to the net person but I often find lobbing over the net person is often better than just hitting it back cross court. It may also force the net player to stand further back allowing you to hit balls at their feet in future weak second serves.

Yes I have had someone appear to complain about me lobbing in this situation. And no I didn't say "what I wanted to do was smack the ball at you really hard because you were stupidly standing way too close to me even though every second serve was a shoulder height sitter." But I think if someone is going to complain about lobs in that situation it's fine if they don't want to play tennis with me.

 

[Cindysphinx]

At my level, I think people greatly overestimate their ability to smoke the net person. Even off of a sitter.

I would say I win way more of the points when someone hits at me at net than they do. They often overhit and find the net, or I block it cross court.

 

[PrinceYonex]

The tennis rules allow it, but I don't think there are clear social rules across the board on this in rec tennis. I would say read the room.

If you are in a situation where you don't want to hit hard at the net player who is close to the net (for whatever reason) but also don't want to completely waste the advantage of weak second serve, then lobbing over the net player works pretty well. It may not be as good as hitting to the net person but I often find lobbing over the net person is often better than just hitting it back cross court. It may also force the net player to stand further back allowing you to hit balls at their feet in future weak second serves.

Yes I have had someone appear to complain about me lobbing in this situation. And no I didn't say "what I wanted to do was smack the ball at you really hard because you were stupidly standing way too close to me even though every second serve was a shoulder height sitter." But I think if someone is going to complain about lobs in that situation it's fine if they don't want to play tennis with me.

That’s a good alternative. But I’m much more confident in drilling a flat forehand right at the player than in hitting an effective lob that clears his overhead reach but still drops in. The latter is doable, certainly, but maybe a bit more risky— if the lob is a bit short then I’ve put my own net guy at risk of eating one.

 

[graycrait]

I do better with a real target, not an imaginary spot on the ground. I prefer to curl the ball over the net as low as I can get it and see what the answer is. But if the net person seems to want to "play" why not? I love to have an opponent have a go at me when I am on the net, but then I am not talking ATP pros Ouch, that was my only good eye!"

 

[PrinceYonex]

At my level, I think people greatly overestimate their ability to smoke the net person. Even off of a sitter.

I would say I win way more of the points when someone hits at me at net than they do. They often overhit and find the net, or I block it cross court.

Good point — and I think it’s the right attitude for the net player on the service side. You want the ball coming at you. What level are you?

 

[PrinceYonex]

I do better with a real target, not an imaginary spot on the ground. I prefer to curl the ball over the net as low as I can get it and see what the answer is. But if the net person seems to want to "play" why not? I love to have an opponent have a go at me when I am on the net, but then I am not talking ATP pros Ouch!

I hear you. When I’m the net player on the service side, I will often try to fake a poach, in the hopes of drawing the returner to hit at me.

 

[stapletonj]

IF it is a player 2 full levels below you, why are you on the court with them in a league scenario anyway?
If it is a 2.5 player and you are a 3.5 (one full level), don't play with your food by trying to "tag" them, just put it away and get off the court
If it is 3.0 and you are a 4.0, OK
If it is a 3.5 and you are a 4.5, OK
4.0s and up don't even have this discussion.

 

[PrinceYonex]

IF it is a player 2 full levels below you, why are you on the court with them in a league scenario anyway?
If it is a 2.5 player and you are a 3.5 (one full level), don't play with your food by trying to "tag" them, just put it away and get off the court
If it is 3.0 and you are a 4.0, OK
If it is a 3.5 and you are a 4.5, OK
4.0s and up don't even have this discussion.

I was in a 7.5 combo league, which means that it’s a mix of 3.5 and 4.0 players. The gap in that kind of league is never supposed to be more than half a point.

 

[RobS]

If the level of play allows me to stand inside the baseline on a 2nd serve and unload on a forehand, I'm not going to light up the net person. Some players who aren't equipped to handle such a return wouldn't even think to move back. Not worth possibly tagging someone in the face with a ball from relatively close range. If you're accurate enough to be sure you'd never hit someone above the chest you're accurate enough to rip a winner through another opening in the court. At higher levels of play, the scenarios are different, powderpuff serves are less common, players can adequately defend themselves at net and are more aware of adjusting their position.

 

[Tshooter]

I clearly mis-titled this thread. My bad.

“It's adult rec league tennis -- peg or be pegged.”

GOAT material.

 

[PrinceYonex]

If the level of play allows me to stand inside the baseline on a 2nd serve and unload on a forehand, I'm not going to light up the net person. Some players who aren't equipped to handle such a return wouldn't even think to move back. Not worth possibly tagging someone in the face with a ball from relatively close range. If you're accurate enough to be sure you'd never hit someone above the chest you're accurate enough to rip a winner through another opening in the court. At higher levels of play, the scenarios are different, powderpuff serves are less common, players can adequately defend themselves at net and are more aware of adjusting their position.

All good points. But one thing I’ll say here is that between 3.5-4.0 you can have at one and the same time a team with a very effective net player and a guy whose second serve is terrible. You aren’t high enough where people simply don’t hit weak serves but you are high enough to have players who can effectively play their position. So it’s not quite a scenario you are necessarily ripping a clean winner, and if you are a bit too gentle in the return, you might get faced with a quick put away volley in response.

 

[CosmosMpower]

I say go for it. I’ve had opponents at the net stand partially in the serve box I’m serving to on purpose and I’ve aimed for them. After a few close calls on first serves they usually change their mind.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Good point — and I think it’s the right attitude for the net player on the service side. You want the ball coming at you. What level are you?

3.5. At that level, few players are consistent enough to target the net player. Many think they are. But no.

 

[Badmrfrosty]

3.5. At that level, few players are consistent enough to target the net player. Many think they are. But no.

I'm barely above the Mendoza line for teeing up on pattycake 2nd serves.

 

[ChaelAZ]

3.5. At that level, few players are consistent enough to target the net player. Many think they are. But no.

Probably trying to go cross court and happen to hit a zinger off the frame down the line.

 

[Tennisplyr]

While it is fine and totally legal, personally I think “head hunting” is nasty and could be dangerous. I’ve been known to not play with guys like that…my opinion.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

While it is fine and totally legal, personally I think “head hunting” is nasty and could be dangerous. I’ve been known to not play with guys like that…my opinion.

Agree with your sentiment, but I have never seen it in real life… and I play a lot of USTA tennis.

 

[Dartagnan64]

While it is fine and totally legal, personally I think “head hunting” is nasty and could be dangerous. I’ve been known to not play with guys like that…my opinion.

There are only a few times I've felt someone was head hunting. Most of the time going at the net player is merely an attempt to force an error or to prevent overactive poaching. Testing someone's volley capabilities is part of the doubles game. If you can handle my return, then I'll do something different. If you can't, I'll go there all day until you move back. but at no time is my intention to hurt anyone.

but every now and then you come up against a guy that hits it far harder than he can control directly at the net person. Hitting a ball that's going 10 miles out is never cool. Those guys are very rare in my experience. Probably because they get shamed out of tennis pretty quickly.

 

[PrinceYonex]

There are only a few times I've felt someone was head hunting. Most of the time going at the net player is merely an attempt to force an error or to prevent overactive poaching. Testing someone's volley capabilities is part of the doubles game. If you can handle my return, then I'll do something different. If you can't, I'll go there all day until you move back. but at no time is my intention to hurt anyone.

but every now and then you come up against a guy that hits it far harder than he can control directly at the net person. Hitting a ball that's going 10 miles out is never cool. Those guys are very rare in my experience. Probably because they get shamed out of tennis pretty quickly.

I think one of the issues is that at the adult rec level there really are two very different kinds of doubles— a social doubles and a more competitive doubles. In the former, the intensity is far lower, you are mostly there for a good time with friends, and there’s often a problem when people take it too serious, trying too hard to win. In league situations, where you are trying to win, it’s a totally different environment. In that situation you often need to play aggressively, and unlike in singles, aggressive doubles play commonly involves trying to jam a player at the net with forceful groundstrokes or volleys. The latter isn’t usually about trying to hurt someone, but about forcing the error.

 

[Bambooman]

Probably trying to go cross court and happen to hit a zinger off the frame down the line.

Are you one of those guys who gets angry at lucky shots? I play with a guy like that. Anything but the cleanest struck winner draws all sorts of criticism.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I think one of the issues is that at the adult rec level there really are two very different kinds of doubles— a social doubles and a more competitive doubles. In the former, the intensity is far lower, you are mostly there for a good time with friends, and there’s often a problem when people take it too serious, trying too hard to win. In league situations, where you are trying to win, it’s a totally different environment. In that situation you often need to play aggressively, and unlike in singles, aggressive doubles play commonly involves trying to jam a player at the net with forceful groundstrokes or volleys. The latter isn’t usually about trying to hurt someone, but about forcing the error.

It's funny but I find in tournaments it becomes totally the opposite. In social men's, guys will go at net players all the time, but the second there's something on the line in a tournament, safe mode comes out and I see far more CC returns and lob returns. The most aggressive guys can turn into pussycats.

Why? Because they've lost the freedom to commit errors. In social dubs, your partner isn't going to lose his mind if you screw up. But in tournament play, you've got a partner that could melt down at any time your error count starts to climb. So guys get very conservative with serves and returns in my experience. They don't want to be the one that messes up in front of their partner.

 

[NTRP_3.75_Patrick_Rafter]

It's funny but I find in tournaments it becomes totally the opposite. In social men's, guys will go at net players all the time, but the second there's something on the line in a tournament, safe mode comes out and I see far more CC returns and lob returns. The most aggressive guys can turn into pussycats.

Why? Because they've lost the freedom to commit errors. In social dubs, your partner isn't going to lose his mind if you screw up. But in tournament play, you've got a partner that could melt down at any time your error count starts to climb. So guys get very conservative with serves and returns in my experience. They don't want to be the one that messes up in front of their partner.

Yup.

I don't do it a ton. If I am the 'stronger' player in the pair or if we're winning I'll take a little more creative license with how I play. If a guy is poaching a ton or is jumping around at the net I might send a couple lasers their way up the line. Hitting a winner or drilling them are both possibilities but you don't even have to hit them to send them message. Hit it hard up the line into the tape or out and they'll still get the hint and will prolly feel a little intimidated.

Social playing I'll read the room. One guy I play with sometimes hates losing so I'll usually play the percentages.

Part of the game. Growing up the kids at my club were pretty ruthless. My pro was a retired Australian doubles player so it was instilled in us not to turn away or concede the point. I didn't do it a lot but man some kids out there loved head hunting (we did call it 'pegging' then but it was the 90s, a simpler time). As an adult player I am pretty fearless at the net now.

 

[roadto50]

I'm curious if guys here tee off on the woman in competitive mixed doubles or if it's only directed towards other guys.

Depends on the level. At 9.0? Fair game. At 8.0? Only if the other team picks on my 3.5 partner.

 

[PrinceYonex]

Yup.

I don't do it a ton. If I am the 'stronger' player in the pair or if we're winning I'll take a little more creative license with how I play. If a guy is poaching a ton or is jumping around at the net I might send a couple lasers their way up the line. Hitting a winner or drilling them are both possibilities but you don't even have to hit them to send them message. Hit it hard up the line into the tape or out and they'll still get the hint and will prolly feel a little intimidated.

Social playing I'll read the room. One guy I play with sometimes hates losing so I'll usually play the percentages.

Part of the game. Growing up the kids at my club were pretty ruthless. My pro was a retired Australian doubles player so it was instilled in us not to turn away or concede the point. I didn't do it a lot but man some kids out there loved head hunting (we did call it 'pegging' then but it was the 90s, a simpler time). As an adult player I am pretty fearless at the net now.

One other side to this is that in doubles it is often the case that one of the two players on a side is weaker. In social doubles, I don’t usually try to pick on the weaker player. It’s not the reason for being out there, and even if it means losing a point I’ll think about whether I’ve hit too many balls to the weaker side. But in league play, I’m definitely picking on the weaker side whenever I can. It doesn’t always work, but for sure if you are picking on the weaker player, they are also the one who is more likely to have poor footwork, to feel jammed, and to struggle with shots coming with pace right at them.
I’m reluctant to call this headhunting. It’s about forcing the error, as @Dartagnan64 pointed out.

 

[PrinceYonex]

(we did call it 'pegging' then but it was the 90s, a simpler time).

Lol, thank you.

 

[Tshooter]

 

[socallefty]

Is this purely a mixed doubles problem where a net guy gets ‘pegged’?

 

[NTRP_3.75_Patrick_Rafter]

Is this purely a mixed doubles problem where a net guy gets ‘pegged’?

I'd think it would have to be mixed as there needs to be a woman involved.

 

[ChaelAZ]

This thread needs this inserted in several posts now. lol

 

[Purestriker]

Agree with your sentiment, but I have never seen it in real life… and I play a lot of USTA tennis.

The dangerous or the not playing with a partner that head hunts? I know a guy in our club that hit his wife in the eye during a mixed match and ended with a detached retina.

 

[Hurting Elbow]

Not cool since it was such a floater you could have passed the person.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

The dangerous or the not playing with a partner that head hunts? I know a guy in our club that hit his wife in the eye during a mixed match and ended with a detached retina.

Good grief. No, I have never seen something like that. I have not encountered anyone intentionally head hunting, but I don’t play 3.5 or 7.0 mixed either.

 

[Cashman]

I didn't do it a lot but man some kids out there loved head hunting (we did call it 'pegging' then but it was the 90s, a simpler time).

Growing up, we used ‘peg’ as a synonym for a hard over-arm throw

i.e. you would peg the ball to (or at) someone

To peg a person is something completely different, as discussed in this thread - maybe something to be careful about if you ever visit Australia

 

[Dartagnan64]

The dangerous or the not playing with a partner that head hunts? I know a guy in our club that hit his wife in the eye during a mixed match and ended with a detached retina.

I've seen one detached retina and it was a ricochet off the frame of a racket. Never seen it from head hunting.

 

[FatHead250]

Peg him only if you're really into him, otherwise there might be some hurt feelings and broken hearts

 

[blakesq]

I was playing a combination 3.5 and 4.0 mixed doubles league with my wife, and we’re playing against an older lady and her younger partner. I was taking it easy against the older lady and only using my Spinney second serve on her, not serving my hard flat first serve. Anyhow, I served one of my Spinney serves, she didn’t know where the ball was going and it bounces up and hits her in the eye. She acted like I was trying to kill her!

 

[FiddlerDog]

My entire goal for the first set is to nail the net guy in the chest. That is the entire point of doubles