wings56
Hall of Fame
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=501806
link to my post about the match i played with a radar setup
link to my post about the match i played with a radar setup
People here underestimating others serve speeds
- Thread starter Nickzor
- Start date
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
Not to go thru all this again but the line has to be drawn somewhere.... I've previously stated that 4 years of D1 tennis is beyond my definition of "rec tennis."
WildVolley
Legend
Where's your evidence for the 1/10th statement?
As I noted, just some of the guys I hit with at the local courts clocked 96mph and 104mph after about three minutes of messing with the radar gun. Neither of those guys has the hardest serve of the people I play against, though they are both solid players in what I'd estimate is the 4.5 range.
I've personally been clocked at 115mph on radar and have hit faster than that in matches (can't do it at the moment with my injury) and I don't even have the fasting pitching ability among my brothers.
You confuse ability to create racket head speed with overall playing ability. Tall lively armed rec guys with decent form can get above 120mph if they catch it right.
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
I've never seen a tall, lively armed *rec* guy with 120 technique. almost by definition such a guy isn't "rec."
WildVolley
Legend
We agree that it is a rare thing, I just don't accept your claim that it is impossible.
We both know that there are D1 players and ex-D1 players who can bring that sort of heat. There are also guys who started too late and never played D1 tennis who play seriously (though for fun) in their 20s and 30s who can bring the big serve. As I said before, I've actually seen it so I know it is possible. The guy I watched play my brother was 6'4" tall, in his 20s, not an ex-college player and could bring a huge flat serve. We were playing club tournaments in the 1990s when this happened.
The other people I've seen hit over 120mph on the rec-courts were an ex-division 1 player and a teaching professional who was nationally ranked, so I agree that they shouldn't be lumped in with the rec-players even if they were just playing for fun at the time.
Tall guys with the right physical attributes can learn how to hit a good serve if they do the proper practice and use either video or good coaches. I got a very good serve just using online video and a video camera to assess my form. If I had done this in my 20s, I'm fairly sure I would have been able to hit big serves for a longer period of time without being sidelined by injuries.
it's quite funny that the thread was resurrected to see if Ballinbob actually did manage to ever play a match with 100mph+ serves with 40-50% of them being in - and he himself never responded. Yet all the other folks that have always claimed it 'can be done' did, but of course with any actual match-play proof.
Again, the fact that someone, at one point in life, happened to close his eyes, and the wind just made his toss perfect, and he blindly swung and hit 100mph serve doesn't prove anything. Just like hitting half-court basketball shoot does not mean anything about your basketball shooting skills.
We are talking match play tennis serve. Not tricks. A repeatable, reliable, under stress serve.
Again, the fact that someone, at one point in life, happened to close his eyes, and the wind just made his toss perfect, and he blindly swung and hit 100mph serve doesn't prove anything. Just like hitting half-court basketball shoot does not mean anything about your basketball shooting skills.
We are talking match play tennis serve. Not tricks. A repeatable, reliable, under stress serve.
WildVolley
Legend
Most of us rec players don't have extremely consistent shots or we wouldn't be rec players. This constant shifting of the goal posts is one of the things that's made this thread frustrating.
The thread was originally about how people were underestimating serve video speed and it was pointed out that a bunch of people can hit 100mph serves. Then it was switched to averaging over 100mph, or serving 120, or in the case of Sureshs serving over 130mph.
In the past I've gone games when I hit three first serves in all over 100mph without much difficulty. A few days later I've had games when I haven't been able to get a single first serve in over 100mph. That's because I'm a rec player and I don't practice enough to have form that's consistent from day to day.
Look at the videos in this thread. We're not talking trick shots. We're talking people hitting hard serves just as they would in a match. Look at the original video and Roddick Ace's videos, etc. None of these players are claiming they can hit these serves in with an 80% success rate.
And I need to throw this in - I have a repeatable reliable serve: my second serve. It has a lot of topspin and doesn't go particularly fast. It is why I don't double fault that often. You'll notice pros doing the same thing. Murray will sometimes miss with a 130mph first serve and then hit a second serve in the 80mph range. Are you going to claim that Murray can't hit 130mph? That his 130mph serve is just a stunt like flinging a basketball from half court because he can't get it in 80% of the time?
Last edited:
WildVolley
Legend
Years ago, I once served four double faults in a row in a single game. It was a perfect game, unfortunately for the opponent.
I saw Gulbis serve four double faults (though not in a row - he got the fourth point serve in) in a game against Raonic in Canada last year. Does that mean he shouldn't hit those 130mph serves?
Maximagq
Banned
I mean it's about percentages in the end haha. I was averaging a double fault every game until the third set when I cleaned it up. I got broken once in each set except the third set because of overhitting and my opponent's strong consistency.
Fuji
Legend
If you could the serve speed app as an accurate method of measurement, I have a handful of videos popping out low 100's after my matches. I even have one during a match. It's not that big of a deal. That being said I have a live arm and half way decent technique. If you count the app as accurate, I also have my doubles partner hitting 120MPH on the nose. :razz:
-Fuji
WildVolley
Legend
He doesn't consider the app accurate. If you have radar confirmed video that would good evidence.
I've measured a bunch of rec-players hitting right around and above 100mph with a radar gun. Some of them were pretty terrible players but they were aggressive. I even had a high school player hit 115mph on radar when he was going all out for speed. He was a strong guy but sort of a wild man and really not that consistent of a player. I would guess that most 4.0s would have beaten him.
Fuji
Legend
Hmm. Well that's interesting haha. I've hit similar numbers on a gun, (105 average on a couple of flat ones without warmup.) It's not that big a deal to hit over 100 haha.
Oh for sure! I wouldn't doubt it. I've seen kids (teens) in my clubs national program that have hit 115 easy on the radar.
-Fuji
WildVolley
Legend
ocd thinks it is a big deal.
My point about the high school player I was coaching (the guy who hit 115mph) was that he really wasn't a good player and I think he was muscling the serve a bit and would sometimes tweak his shoulder. I encouraged him to back off and protect his shoulder. It does take a certain amount of physical talent and form to hit a 115mph serve, but it definitely doesn't make you a great player. The best player on my team never hit a serve over 90mph in a match and he could work the guy who hit hard. ocd seems to confuse hitting hard with being a very good player.
I don't doubt that you can hit over 100mph, but don't expect to convince ocd.
Fuji
Legend
ocd thinks it is a big deal.
My point about the high school player I was coaching (the guy who hit 115mph) was that he really wasn't a good player and I think he was muscling the serve a bit and would sometimes tweak his shoulder. I encouraged him to back off and protect his shoulder. It does take a certain amount of physical talent and form to hit a 115mph serve, but it definitely doesn't make you a great player. The best player on my team never hit a serve over 90mph in a match and he could work the guy who hit hard. ocd seems to confuse hitting hard with being a very good player.
I don't doubt that you can hit over 100mph, but don't expect to convince ocd.
I guess so! Hahaha! It amazes me what people constitute as a good player. (That being said, my doubles partner has a career high 11 in Canada for Men's doubles, behind Nestor and the like :razz
Yeah! I was coaching a guy that is 6 foot 9ish? Anywho, he played volleyball and can absolutely BOMB his serve. It's bigger than mine for sure. His results? He's a decent 4.0 player because of his serve. Take that away and he can't rally more than 6-7 balls.
-Fuji
WildVolley
Legend
I guess so! Hahaha! It amazes me what people constitute as a good player. (That being said, my doubles partner has a career high 11 in Canada for Men's doubles, behind Nestor and the like :razz
Yeah! I was coaching a guy that is 6 foot 9ish? Anywho, he played volleyball and can absolutely BOMB his serve. It's bigger than mine for sure. His results? He's a decent 4.0 player because of his serve. Take that away and he can't rally more than 6-7 balls.
-Fuji
Your doubles partner sounds like he's more than just a rec player. In this thread we were just just talking about video from guys who are rec players, not ex-college players or teaching pros or ex-touring pros. However, if he's not part of that category he'd qualify.
Tall guys definitely have an advantage with the serve, as do those who are from throwing sports. Biggest rec serve I've seen was from a guy who was about 6'4" tall.
Fuji
Legend
Ah! Well then he is definitely disqualified, even though we play "rec" events together. :razz:
Oh 100%. Tall guys have a huge advantage. The best serve I've seen is from a guy who is 6'3. It's absolutely massive.
-Fuji
Maximagq
Banned
My doubles partner in the juniors was 6'3. How big was his serve?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27em3N79dho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27em3N79dho
Suresh and tennis_OCD are just sore losers. Like I said most any athlete with legit experience in a throwing sport - like baseball can hit 100mph.
Most any D1 pitcher can hit 120 with a LITTLE training.. These guys are RECREATIONAL players like it or not.
Being athletic doesn't disqualify you from being a recreational player.. These guys can sign up and join USTA leagues if they want too.
Tough if you guys don't like it..
Now if you want to claim that an unathletic inflexible 5'5" 40 something fat *** can't hit 120 mph on a serve - yeah we buy that.
Last edited:
mikeler
Moderator
There is a former MLB player who took up tennis after he retired in my area. As you might guess, he can bomb his serve. His kicker is worse though since he is about 6'-3".
It's likely never happened. However its possible.. If we count actual MLB players as recreational tennis players pitchers are going to have a superior throwing motion to most pro tennis players.
They get paid directly for arm speed and they work almost exclusively on it. They are also bigger and stronger then pro tennis players (but of course slower and less agile)..
So in theory they could serve bigger then most people on the tour. It's said that Andy Roddick could have pitched in the MLB. He has the kind of live arm that could have made the bigs..
But lots of the guys in the bigs are bigger and stronger then Roddick and thus they would server harder.
The problem is I'd wager that most MLB players have clauses in their contracts that exclude serving - for fear of shoulder injuries etc etc.
My guess is that someone only needs to be able to throw a baseball 70 MPH to be able to serve over 100 or so. The racquet provides a pretty big increase in leverage..and the ball is lighter.
So ex MLB players with a decent motion can likely throw in the 80 MPH and thus hit 120 and so on and so forth. Take an MLB player who can hit a 100 train him up and you would have new world record in serve speeds...
Isner is another guy who might have been able to pitch in the bigs...
I'd wager then Tom Brady has a pretty big serve too if he goes to the Hamptons and hits around..
So its not just baseball...either.
Last edited:
WildVolley
Legend
When I was in college I once threw a baseball 68mph in a radar cage. That was a long time ago, and I don't throw baseballs so I don't know how fast I could pitch today. About five years ago I hit a 115mph serve in on radar.
arche3
Banned
It's likely never happened. However its possible.. If we count actual MLB players as recreational tennis players pitchers are going to have a superior throwing motion to most pro tennis players.
They get paid directly for arm speed and they work almost exclusively on it. They are also bigger and stronger then pro tennis players (but of course slower and less agile)..
So in theory they could serve bigger then most people on the tour. It's said that Andy Roddick could have pitched in the MLB. He has the kind of live arm that could have made the bigs..
But lots of the guys in the bigs are bigger and stronger then Roddick and thus they would server harder.
The problem is I'd wager that most MLB players have clauses in their contracts that exclude serving - for fear of shoulder injuries etc etc.
My guess is that someone only needs to be able to throw a baseball 70 MPH to be able to serve over 100 or so. The racquet provides a pretty big increase in leverage..and the ball is lighter.
So ex MLB players with a decent motion can likely throw in the 80 MPH and thus hit 120 and so on and so forth. Take an MLB player who can hit a 100 train him up and you would have new world record in serve speeds...
Isner is another guy who might have been able to pitch in the bigs...
I'd wager then Tom Brady has a pretty big serve too if he goes to the Hamptons and hits around..
Our resident leeD used to serve 148. Or 142. One of these. that's an elite level serve requiring superior technique and arm speed.
WildVolley
Legend
Actually, in post #335 LeeD claims his fastest measured serve was 129.4 mph at the 1978 TransAmerica Pro fast serve contest.
I realize you enjoy fighting with LeeD but at least get your facts straight.:twisted:
Last edited:
Avles
Hall of Fame
Actually LeeD said it was 129.4 and 1978.
Now back in 2003, that serve was a mere 129.2, so it's slowly getting better:
http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=159659#Post159659
Of course, LeeD also said in that post that he played a "Jauro Soarez" who two years later was #14 in the world. I'm guessing he meant Joao Soares, who had a career high ranking of 79.
Looks like LeeD's complicated relationship with names and numbers goes back a while...
Last edited:
WildVolley
Legend
In his defense, he said he DID serve 129 in 1978, not that he CAN serve 129 mph now. 30 years is a long time and most of us don't serve faster in 30 years unless we are under the age of 10 at the start of the 30 years.
It isn't a verifiable claim but he does seem to have the fast serve guy correct for that era, though the Wiki page on fastest serves doesn't include Colin Dibley's 148-mph serve as perhaps people question radar accuracy from that era. (LeeD has Dibley hittin 149 mph, which seems fast if his record was 148mph, but it is good enough for govt work.)
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
If you can hit 90 mph drop feed forehands with pinpoint accuracy anywhere
into the service box, perhaps you should consider using a low-toss forehand
serve.
Maximagq
Banned
Tbh, that might be better than my actual serve. I've been hitting way too many double faults recently.
Maximagq
Banned
My serving percentages are way too low haha
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
By the rationale in this thread he could've also been a Cy Young award winner.
Still, with all the ongoing endless blather, no ttw rec poster has yet to show his 120 big gun. All talk.
Avles
Hall of Fame
I don't think I've seen anyone in the thread claim that they can currently hit 120.
It's a long thread though so I probably overlooked something. Can you point me to that claim?
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
I glanced back and stopped after going thru just half the pages. The thread is chalk full of beauties;
easily hit over 100mph
Faced guys with 130
easily clear 110mph
I counted your second one at 121 mph
I have your second serve at 116 mph
117 mph
118 mph
hit around 120... sick..
my friend is hitting 120mph
servers here can hit in the 120s
there are many that can hit over 100 and a few that can hit over 120.
If I try I can crack 115
Rec players CAN hit 130 mph serves
hit close enough to 120-125mph
But my fav it the one who states he hits "119 mph absolute minimum."
Still no vid. Funny stuff.
Maximagq
Banned
I can't hit a serve over 107 mph (fastest I've recorded), but I think I can clock over 90 mph on the forehand.
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
I've never played around with gunning some of the bigger rec forehands... might be fun. I'm sure rec players have a realistic grasp of this shot.... Picture a mix of Fed's speed but with Rafa's spin.
psv255
Professional
You really live up to your username, kudos to you sir
Avles
Hall of Fame
Thanks for the list, but I asked whether anyone here has claimed that they can personally hit 120 right now.
Someone who (questionably) says that another person's vid shows a 120 mph doesn't really respond to that.
So, I'll ask again! Who in this thread has actually said that they can currently serve at 120 mph, and where did they say it? If you could actually provide the post number or a quote instead of a fragmentary paraphrase that would be great.
WildVolley
Legend
Some of those were clearly estimations and some you are pulling out of context.
For example: "servers here can hit in the 120s" which I think was made by me with respect to several posters who have posted videos which clearly seem to show this.
However, and it was stated at the time, one of those players is a teaching professional who plays at a high level and the other was seeking (earned?) an ATP-point. So they didn't fit our discussion as rec-players.
You aren't any better than those who overestimate serve speed in that you love to take things out of context and lie about what people have said. I said I'm sure I had served over 120mph (something I stand by, though I admit I don't have video evidence). You changed that into a false assertion that I had claimed that I averaged higher than Isner "on a regular basis."
So you lied to make me look ridiculous.
I long ago classed you with trolls like Sureshs who jumped into a thread about people serving over 100mph with the weird troll about not seeing a video of anyone serving over 130mph.
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
Some? ya really think?? lol.
???
You're confusing "trolls" with the likes of those who once stated that world wasn't flat.
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
On my first click of pages #141 and #180 clearly state current 120s. But just think, if no one really believed they could hit 120 why the discussion?
But to play your game I'll ask: Is there any rec player here who still believes they hit 120? No affirmations would tend to prove my point as effectively as no video....
WildVolley
Legend
Convenient of you to forget your own trolling. To quote you:
"Also kinda amusing that in 2011 Isner led all with an *average* first served of 124.5 mph. Something WV regularly exceeded on a regular basis five years ago. rotfl. You guys crack me up."
tennis_ocd
Hall of Fame
So if you were regularly hitting Isner like 120/125 back in the glory days it was a compliment.
WildVolley
Legend
Everyone can read this thread and see that 1) it isn't a compliment and 2) I never claimed I regularly hit over 120mph, much less average over it. My point was always that I believe I have served over 120mph and I'm not some sort of professional athlete, which makes me believe it is possible that younger more athletic rec players can do so.
Also, they can look at the videos and your posts and see that you don't know what you're talking about with respect to serve speed. You seem to confuse the ability to hit a hard flat serve with being equivalent to a professional tennis player.
As a former high school coach with a radar gun I've used radar to measure some pretty bad players hitting serves at 100mph so I know it isn't some sort of unbelievable standard.
Avles
Hall of Fame
Post #141: Psv255 responds,with surprise (though not disbelief) to a poster's estimate, based on a video, that he serves "near 120." This may be an inaccurate assessment of the video, but it's not actually a claim to serve 120, and the video is there. So your reference to people failing to post video doesn't really seem to apply here.
Post #180:
asimple says that "a few" rec players do exist who serve 120. He doesn't claim to be one of these players, or to have ever encountered one of those players.
So no, neither of these posts "clearly state current 120s."
As far as I can tell there are no posts by anyone on this thread on claiming to serve in the 120s. But if I've missed one do let me know.
Not playing any games, just trying to suggest that it's strange to attack people for failing to show video of their 120 mph serves, when it appears that nobody here has claimed, without video, that they currently have a 120 mph serve.
Last edited:
