Perfect Forehands

FiReFTW

Legend
He obviously has had intensive training, no way would he be hitting like this by just going out and hitting randomly.
 

5point5

Professional
I would say since this guy has a classic forehand, he can only be 3.5 max. In order for this chubster to become a true 4.0, he needs to adopt some modern techniques and apply it to his forehand.
 

Fintft

Legend
I would say since this guy has a classic forehand, he can only be 3.5 max. In order for this chubster to become a true 4.0, he needs to adopt some modern techniques and apply it to his forehand.
You speaking tongue in check probably?

I can't access the video from work, but from memory that guy looked like a 4.5, imho.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
I would say since this guy has a classic forehand, he can only be 3.5 max. In order for this chubster to become a true 4.0, he needs to adopt some modern techniques and apply it to his forehand.
Yeah right.....i ve seen 4.5 with worse forehand.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Overall this guy has an old dated looking forehand - needs to upgrade.
Yea im sure you can hit it better mr.anon posting on an online forum.

*waiting till you post video of your play which you never will because you probably s*ck badly*
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
These strokes are very nice in general, so I'm clearly not hating on him, but not perfect. His slot position is a bit weak, which is pretty important and likely amplified because he doesn't swivel to the slot. From this avg slot of his, he doesn't lag especially well, which along with the lack of a swivel, hurts his ability to accel the racket at key points of his swing. His crosscourt shot has a couple of subtle issues I don't want to get into here, but in the end he tends to push it a bit down his target line. So in the end, he has some pretty modern aspects to his swing and is way better than avg by a good margin, but does also retain some of the classic issues that would tend to haunt him at the higher levels.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
These strokes are very nice in general, so I'm clearly not hating on him, but not perfect. His slot position is a bit weak, which is pretty important and likely amplified because he doesn't swivel to the slot. From this avg slot of his, he doesn't lag especially well, which along with the lack of a swivel, hurts his ability to accel the racket at key points of his swing. His crosscourt shot has a couple of subtle issues I don't want to get into here, but in the end he tends to push it a bit down his target line. So in the end, he has some pretty modern aspects to his swing and is way better than avg by a good margin, but does also retain some of the classic issues that would tend to haunt him at the higher levels.
Would this impede the generation of a modern "heavy" ball?

J
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Would this impede the generation of a modern "heavy" ball?

J
Yes it likely would. I'm sure this guys has a pretty heavy ball from the looks of it, but he is never going to have the racket accel or spin to get that heavy quality in a big way with what I'm seeing here. I'd go out on a short limb and predict that when he is hitting out like this against a decently matched opponent, that he will have a tendency to launch a few too many long.
 

5point5

Professional
These strokes are very nice in general, so I'm clearly not hating on him, but not perfect. His slot position is a bit weak, which is pretty important and likely amplified because he doesn't swivel to the slot. From this avg slot of his, he doesn't lag especially well, which along with the lack of a swivel, hurts his ability to accel the racket at key points of his swing. His crosscourt shot has a couple of subtle issues I don't want to get into here, but in the end he tends to push it a bit down his target line. So in the end, he has some pretty modern aspects to his swing and is way better than avg by a good margin, but does also retain some of the classic issues that would tend to haunt him at the higher levels.
Thanks for the response. Will be sure to relay this information to him. He is trying to work on getting more topspin off of that wing, what do you mean by a "weak slot position"?

Can we get into what's wrong with his crosscourt? Would surely like to hear your thoughts when you have a chance.
 
D

Deleted member 754093

Guest
You dug up a video that is two years old to ask a question about changing his form now? I doubt you even know the guy personally, but I could be wrong
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Thanks for the response. Will be sure to relay this information to him. He is trying to work on getting more topspin off of that wing, what do you mean by a "weak slot position"?

Can we get into what's wrong with his crosscourt? Would surely like to hear your thoughts when you have a chance.
Just a reminder, I'm not trying to say whats wrong with this guy's stroke, as he looks to be hitting pretty strong there... but just commenting on areas where Imo it could be a bit better.

The slot is basically where the takeback is looking to get the racket to, where it will be in great shape for the start forward towards contact. From the slot, the racket is positioned to drag {more or less} behind the hand as it travels on most linear part of the swing to contact. Could be just these shots, video angle or whatever, but best I could tell he just never seemed to get the racket in the best position....and actually did it a bit like a stiff older guy like me will do. Sure the racket head was lagging back fairly well, but not like I'm used to seeing with the top players or even most of the college players I've worked with. This means the forward swing won't come off as smoothly and the racket head doesn't have as far to drift out and accelerate when the time comes to swing out to the outside of this ball to bring it back crosscourt.
 

5point5

Professional
Just a reminder, I'm not trying to say whats wrong with this guy's stroke, as he looks to be hitting pretty strong there... but just commenting on areas where Imo it could be a bit better.

The slot is basically where the takeback is looking to get the racket to, where it will be in great shape for the start forward towards contact. From the slot, the racket is positioned to drag {more or less} behind the hand as it travels on most linear part of the swing to contact. Could be just these shots, video angle or whatever, but best I could tell he just never seemed to get the racket in the best position....and actually did it a bit like a stiff older guy like me will do. Sure the racket head was lagging back fairly well, but not like I'm used to seeing with the top players or even most of the college players I've worked with. This means the forward swing won't come off as smoothly and the racket head doesn't have as far to drift out and accelerate when the time comes to swing out to the outside of this ball to bring it back crosscourt.
Once again, thanks for your comment.

I spoke with the player in the video, how would he go about rectifying this issue? Should he be getting ready earlier with a wider base to get the correct slot positioning on his forehand?
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Once again, thanks for your comment.

I spoke with the player in the video, how would he go about rectifying this issue? Should he be getting ready earlier with a wider base to get the correct slot positioning on his forehand?
you are very welcome and I hope this does help out your talented player.

Imo the biggest key for a player like him is to be more familiar with what a 'great slot' position looks like. Poking around on youtube for you, I found this from my friend Christophe of tennisOxygen. I can't say he and I see it exactly the same, but this as good as it gets on youtube to see how the slot is the key position with max lag to set up the 'drag' towards contact.
 

5point5

Professional
you are very welcome and I hope this does help out your talented player.

Imo the biggest key for a player like him is to be more familiar with what a 'great slot' position looks like. Poking around on youtube for you, I found this from my friend Christophe of tennisOxygen. I can't say he and I see it exactly the same, but this as good as it gets on youtube to see how the slot is the key position with max lag to set up the 'drag' towards contact.
Thanks once more.

We implemented this train of thought today in practice. He's been playing around with the so called 'slot' for some time now but was more focused on breaking the wrist during the lag.

He says while proactively thinking about slot, he's able to break his wrist earlier (pat the dog) and accelerate into the ball easier. The top spin increase has been marginal, but that's a whole other issue altogether.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 

watungga

Professional
Thanks once more.

We implemented this train of thought today in practice. He's been playing around with the so called 'slot' for some time now but was more focused on breaking the wrist during the lag.

He says while proactively thinking about slot, he's able to break his wrist earlier (pat the dog) and accelerate into the ball easier. The top spin increase has been marginal, but that's a whole other issue altogether.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
What does it means 'break his wrist" like pat the dog? I would suggest to NOT think anything about the wrist. Even the grip.

There is that so-called slot in his video and it suited perfectly to his body mass.
5263 pointed out an analogy like a handheld slingshot, stretch the rubber more for greater throw distance.
But to pull the slot to start a bit farther back (rotational position), it will demand more effort on abdomen muscles, demand new stroke timing, new feet position and must be ready to accept a different racquet throw.
That guy won't have any of that as he already looked battle ready.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Thanks once more.

We implemented this train of thought today in practice. He's been playing around with the so called 'slot' for some time now but was more focused on breaking the wrist during the lag.

He says while proactively thinking about slot, he's able to break his wrist earlier (pat the dog) and accelerate into the ball easier. The top spin increase has been marginal, but that's a whole other issue altogether.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
yes and ck your msg when you get a chance
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
What does it means 'break his wrist" like pat the dog? I would suggest to NOT think anything about the wrist. Even the grip.
.
I think he is focused on getting to a position where the wrist can function naturally, but not trying to wrist the shot. When the wrist should be a bit firm and where it should be more 'allowing'.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Thanks once more.

We implemented this train of thought today in practice. He's been playing around with the so called 'slot' for some time now but was more focused on breaking the wrist during the lag.

He says while proactively thinking about slot, he's able to break his wrist earlier (pat the dog) and accelerate into the ball easier. The top spin increase has been marginal, but that's a whole other issue altogether.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
part of improving the slot would be to get the elbow away from the body more. Some call it lifting the elbow....which isn't wrong, but Imo, not the best way to understand it. Imo it is more about getting the elbow and arm back than lifting, but it does lift to get out and back more.....Doesn't need to be much though.
 

5point5

Professional
part of improving the slot would be to get the elbow away from the body more. Some call it lifting the elbow....which isn't wrong, but Imo, not the best way to understand it. Imo it is more about getting the elbow and arm back than lifting, but it does lift to get out and back more.....Doesn't need to be much though.
He's been focusing on keeping that elbow out and his racket stagnant just past his head. Has definitely helped on the cc forehands.

Thanks for all your help.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
you are very welcome and I hope this does help out your talented player.

Imo the biggest key for a player like him is to be more familiar with what a 'great slot' position looks like. Poking around on youtube for you, I found this from my friend Christophe of tennisOxygen. I can't say he and I see it exactly the same, but this as good as it gets on youtube to see how the slot is the key position with max lag to set up the 'drag' towards contact.
Interesting video that makes a point I made a while back about no such things as a WTA/ATP forehand beside (for the most part) coming down on edge and the position of the racquet behind or to the side. And most top WTA players don't even use that older style and favor the standard modern form. So even with the racquet face open there is that lay back of the wrist. Not as extreme mostly, but it is there. It has made for a lot of online coaching videos though...of course.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Interesting video that makes a point I made a while back about no such things as a WTA/ATP forehand beside (for the most part) coming down on edge and the position of the racquet behind or to the side. And most top WTA players don't even use that older style and favor the standard modern form. So even with the racquet face open there is that lay back of the wrist. Not as extreme mostly, but it is there. It has made for a lot of online coaching videos though...of course.
Remember that wrist lay back and dragging the racket is only part of the equation

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
Remember that wrist lay back and dragging the racket is only part of the equation
Agree, but the reality is there are a lot of ways to get there within a basic framework. Some are more efficient, compact, or have advantages, but to me I just find it funny that such a distinction was ever made. It was the female vs. male forehand, which is really far from true since many of the top WTA players tick all the elements of a modern forehand. That was really all I was pointing out. Not sure who start that years ago, but thankfully it has died off.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Agree, but the reality is there are a lot of ways to get there within a basic framework. Some are more efficient, compact, or have advantages, but to me I just find it funny that such a distinction was ever made. It was the female vs. male forehand, which is really far from true since many of the top WTA players tick all the elements of a modern forehand. That was really all I was pointing out. Not sure who start that years ago, but thankfully it has died off.
Well, I'm not sure, but you seem to conflate a few issues....maybe because you don't care for the distinctions on the Atp vs Wta... first off, it wasn't male vs female, as there was crossover pointed out, but it was more about which style was more common on each tour. Imo only these silly days of 'PC' turn this to a male vs female issue.

2nd is that both the Atp and the Wta are 'Modern Strokes'. Atp & Wta is a breakdown or category within 'Modern Strokes'.

3rd is that Imo the subtle differences between Atp and Wta are also very key and noteworthy, which also Imo is why we see so many women now going to the Atp type swing. I think many coaches around the world are seeing how the ATP Fh is much more responsive and greatly helps with timing the stoke well in challenging situations.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
Well, I'm not sure, but you seem to conflate a few issues....maybe because you don't care for the distinctions on the Atp vs Wta... first off, it wasn't male vs female, as there was crossover pointed out, but it was more about which style was more common on each tour. Imo only these silly days of 'PC' turn this to a male vs female issue.

2nd is that both the Atp and the Wta are 'Modern Strokes'. Atp & Wta is a breakdown or category within 'Modern Strokes'.

3rd is that Imo the subtle differences between Atp and Wta are also very key and noteworthy, which also Imo is why we see so many women now going to the Atp type swing. I think many coaches around the world are seeing how the ATP Fh is much more responsive and greatly helps with timing the stoke well in challenging situations.
I agree. And yes, I don't care for the distinction as many online coaches used it. While WTA coaches might have been behind the progressions, the modern forehand has caught on for the most part. Except Sloane, which baffles me.
 
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