Perfection: Wilson H19 16X19 Pro Stock

asifallasleep

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame




I was fortunate enough to acquire 3 of Borna Coric's frames this week and had the chance to hit with them.

This is my first go around with a pro stock frame and I was blown away. The materials used, the paint job, the silicone in the handle, the look and feel, all just seem to be on a different level when compared to retail frames.

I know there has been a lot of discussion re the Ultra Tour being a H19. I think it's possible the UT is from the same mold, but the materials used in the H19 IMO are completely different. Could I get the same H19 feel if I added silicone to the UT and modded it exactly, i'd imagine it's possible but because the materials used in construction seem to be different I'm not so sure.

In terms of playability, my first impression is that the pros have a huge gear advantage. When acquired the frames were still matched to Borna's specs.

I added my strings (Volkl cyclone 19g at 40lbs.) which increased the HL balance slightly.

Final specs with strings, stock wilson pro stock synthetic grip, wilson overgrip and panda dampener.

static weight: 12.1 ounces
balance: 11pts HL
swing weight: 326

My main racquet for years has been the RF97. I've always played with and preferred 12.5+ frames. I'd sometimes struggle with the weight but the mass, plow, feel and stability always brought me back.

As we all know, the bonus of pro stock is that the frame can be customised to exactly match your desired specs. Unfortunately, unless you are a pro, finding the exact absolute best specs for your game is not an easy thing to achieve.

I don't know if pro stock frames are magic, but i've never had a frame feel so easy to play with. Borna's specs really worked for me. It felt like i had an unfair advantage. Everything was just so easy. Groundstrokes, Volleys, Serves, etc.

I do believe the integrity of pro stocks clearly add an advantage as well they should considering what's at stake for tennis professionals in terms of results and earnings.

My final specs of 12.1 ounces at 11pts hl is a difficult spec to arrive at unless you are starting with a pro stock. It would not have been possible to match with my RF97 or any other retail frame.

I'm aware that this is the reason many prefer Angell as you can completely customise your frame similar to pro stock. I've tried Angell frames in the past and felt they were nice but I wasn't blown away as many others have been.

The beam of the H19 is 21mm which is a hair thinner than my RF97 (21.5mm), and combined with the lighter static weight (12.1 vs 12.8) makes it loads easier to swing, and even tho the balance is similar to my RF, the H19 does not feel clubby at all.

The frame feels like a thinner beamed, more maneuverable, slightly softer RF97 with all the other benefits of plow, control and power. Additionally I was able to get more topspin with the H19.

At impact the ball sinks into the string bed slightly with a nice modest flex and is held momentarily similar to my RF97 but less harsh.

My racquet illness is finally cured. After hitting with this frame i'm not sure I can ever hit with anything else.
 
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Nice! Thanks for sharing. Do you think there’s a chance things might change after the initial honeymoon period? I keep waiting for the honeymoon period to end with my ultra tour, but after 3 weeks so far, the magic hasn’t worn off yet. Hope the magic never wears off for you and your pro stocks! :)

Only one problem now...what will you do when these need to be replaced in the future?
 
mad dog1 said:
Nice! Thanks for sharing. Do you think there’s a chance things might change after the initial honeymoon period? I keep waiting for the honeymoon period to end with my ultra tour, but after 3 weeks so far, the magic hasn’t worn off yet. Hope the magic never wears off for you and your pro stocks! :)

Only one problem now...what will you do when these need to be replaced in the future?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind comments.

I have always loved my RF97's with my only issue being my inability to at times handle the weight.

The H19 for me is a better more easier to use RF97 with no shortcomings with the change in specs.

It's an extremely rare and sought after frame and being blacked out makes it even more awesome.

I'm also a Wilson lifer.

I'm never changing.

I've got Saint Vincent PS85's from over 20 years ago and there's been no drop off in integrity. I think these will last a lifetime.
 
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Great post. You're a lucky dog to have them. I've always had a problem with racquet manufacturers making great frames for the pros and crappy frames for the public. Why do that? Could you imagine how many people could really up the level of their game if they had equipment that they were comfortable and confident with? If the racquet manufacturer wants to charge more for a pro stock frame I would understand. You get what you pay for. I'd buy them. The sh;tty frames that they're putting out now to the public should only cost about half of what they're charging us.
 
asifallasleep said:
In terms of playability, my first impression is that the pros have a huge gear advantage. When acquired the frames were still matched to Borna's specs.
Click to expand...

Well one thing is a good platform; another is a good customization/specs. Welcome to the conclusion what can be done with it.
Measure the SW when you catch the opportunity, it will be good to know.
 
Is the handle made of the typical yellow foam?

Do you have any measurements of Coric's specs before you changed things?
 
asifallasleep said:




I was fortunate enough to acquire 3 of Borna Coric's frames this week and had the chance to hit with them.

This is my first go around with a pro stock frame and I was blown away. The materials used, the paint job, the silicone in the handle, the look and feel, all just seem to be on a different level when compared to retail frames.

I know there has been a lot of discussion re the Ultra Tour being a H19. I think it's possible the UT is from the same mold, but the materials used in the H19 IMO are completely different. Could I get the same H19 feel if I added silicone to the UT and modded it exactly, i'd imagine it's possible but because the materials used in construction seem to be different I'm not so sure.

In terms of playability, my first impression is that the pros have a huge gear advantage. When acquired the frames were still matched to Borna's specs.

I added my strings (Volkl cyclone 19g at 40lbs.) which increased the HL balance slightly.

Final specs with strings, stock wilson pro stock synthetic grip, wilson overgrip and panda dampener.

static weight: 12.1 ounces
balance: 11pts HL
swing weight: haven't measured this yet

My main racquet for years has been the RF97. I've always played with and preferred 12.5+ frames. I'd sometimes struggle with the weight but the mass, plow, feel and stability always brought me back.

As we all know, the bonus of pro stock is that the frame can be customised to exactly match your desired specs. Unfortunately, unless you are a pro, finding the exact absolute best specs for your game is not an easy thing to achieve.

I don't know if pro stock frames are magic, but i've never had a frame feel so easy to play with. Borna's specs really worked for me. It felt like i had an unfair advantage. Everything was just so easy. Groundstrokes, Volleys, Serves, etc.

I do believe the integrity of pro stocks clearly add an advantage as well they should considering what's at stake for tennis professionals in terms of results and earnings.

My final specs of 12.1 ounces at 11pts hl is a difficult spec to arrive at unless you are starting with a pro stock. It would not have been possible to match with my RF97 or any other retail frame.

I'm aware that this is the reason many prefer Angell as you can completely customise your frame similar to pro stock. I've tried Angell frames in the past and felt they were nice but I wasn't blown away as many others have been.

The beam of the H19 is 21mm which is a hair thinner than my RF97 (21.5mm), and combined with the lighter static weight (12.1 vs 12.8) makes it loads easier to swing, and even tho the balance is similar to my RF, the H19 does not feel clubby at all.

The frame feels like a thinner beamed, more maneuverable, slightly softer RF97 with all the other benefits of plow, control and power. Additionally I was able to get more topspin with the H19.

At impact the ball sinks into the string bed slightly with a nice modest flex and is held momentarily similar to my RF97 but less harsh.

My racquet illness is finally cured. After hitting with this frame i'm not sure I can ever hit with anything else.
Click to expand...
How did you get those frames?
 
moon shot said:
Is the handle made of the typical yellow foam?

Do you have any measurements of Coric's specs before you changed things?
Click to expand...

Also instead of the rounded permanent Wilson pallet, it's a removable Head square shaped pallet filled with silicone.

I received the frames unstrung and didn't make any changes to his customization. I just
had them strung up with my string choice and tension - which are different than his of course.

I did not measure the specs prior to stringing.
 
Last edited:
mad dog1 said:
Nice! Thanks for sharing. Do you think there’s a chance things might change after the initial honeymoon period? I keep waiting for the honeymoon period to end with my ultra tour, but after 3 weeks so far, the magic hasn’t worn off yet. Hope the magic never wears off for you and your pro stocks! :)

Only one problem now...what will you do when these need to be replaced in the future?
Click to expand...

I got my current set of tgt293.2s back in late 2011, early 2012 and it took me six months to get comfortable with them and I am still using them. What would I do if I needed to replace them? Probably go with Angell. But that's a long way off.
 
Jouke said:
What Angell frames did you play with?
Click to expand...

I've never hit with one but I'd go with VSBabolat's recommendation for the TC97. What I specifically like about Angell is the availability of XL frames. My tgt293.2s are 27.6 inches long.
 
This is the most glorious gear sight I've seen since I got 4 SV95's for $50 a pop. This understandably pales in comparison, but still, good stuff.
 
asifallasleep said:




I was fortunate enough to acquire 3 of Borna Coric's frames this week and had the chance to hit with them.

This is my first go around with a pro stock frame and I was blown away. The materials used, the paint job, the silicone in the handle, the look and feel, all just seem to be on a different level when compared to retail frames.

I know there has been a lot of discussion re the Ultra Tour being a H19. I think it's possible the UT is from the same mold, but the materials used in the H19 IMO are completely different. Could I get the same H19 feel if I added silicone to the UT and modded it exactly, i'd imagine it's possible but because the materials used in construction seem to be different I'm not so sure.

In terms of playability, my first impression is that the pros have a huge gear advantage. When acquired the frames were still matched to Borna's specs.

I added my strings (Volkl cyclone 19g at 40lbs.) which increased the HL balance slightly.

Final specs with strings, stock wilson pro stock synthetic grip, wilson overgrip and panda dampener.

static weight: 12.1 ounces
balance: 11pts HL
swing weight: haven't measured this yet

My main racquet for years has been the RF97. I've always played with and preferred 12.5+ frames. I'd sometimes struggle with the weight but the mass, plow, feel and stability always brought me back.

As we all know, the bonus of pro stock is that the frame can be customised to exactly match your desired specs. Unfortunately, unless you are a pro, finding the exact absolute best specs for your game is not an easy thing to achieve.

I don't know if pro stock frames are magic, but i've never had a frame feel so easy to play with. Borna's specs really worked for me. It felt like i had an unfair advantage. Everything was just so easy. Groundstrokes, Volleys, Serves, etc.

I do believe the integrity of pro stocks clearly add an advantage as well they should considering what's at stake for tennis professionals in terms of results and earnings.

My final specs of 12.1 ounces at 11pts hl is a difficult spec to arrive at unless you are starting with a pro stock. It would not have been possible to match with my RF97 or any other retail frame.

I'm aware that this is the reason many prefer Angell as you can completely customise your frame similar to pro stock. I've tried Angell frames in the past and felt they were nice but I wasn't blown away as many others have been.

The beam of the H19 is 21mm which is a hair thinner than my RF97 (21.5mm), and combined with the lighter static weight (12.1 vs 12.8) makes it loads easier to swing, and even tho the balance is similar to my RF, the H19 does not feel clubby at all.

The frame feels like a thinner beamed, more maneuverable, slightly softer RF97 with all the other benefits of plow, control and power. Additionally I was able to get more topspin with the H19.

At impact the ball sinks into the string bed slightly with a nice modest flex and is held momentarily similar to my RF97 but less harsh.

My racquet illness is finally cured. After hitting with this frame i'm not sure I can ever hit with anything else.
Click to expand...

Hi OP, please measure the swingweight and let us know what it is. I currently have 2 really light RF97s that are somewhat close to the spec (345g, 9pt HL, low to mid 320sw, strung with TB18, no dampener, karakal grip and 1 wilson pro og) and I think the RF97 frame itself is a bit thick to really get that fast swing for me (love the plow though).
 
asifallasleep said:




I was fortunate enough to acquire 3 of Borna Coric's frames this week and had the chance to hit with them.

This is my first go around with a pro stock frame and I was blown away. The materials used, the paint job, the silicone in the handle, the look and feel, all just seem to be on a different level when compared to retail frames.

I know there has been a lot of discussion re the Ultra Tour being a H19. I think it's possible the UT is from the same mold, but the materials used in the H19 IMO are completely different. Could I get the same H19 feel if I added silicone to the UT and modded it exactly, i'd imagine it's possible but because the materials used in construction seem to be different I'm not so sure.

In terms of playability, my first impression is that the pros have a huge gear advantage. When acquired the frames were still matched to Borna's specs.

I added my strings (Volkl cyclone 19g at 40lbs.) which increased the HL balance slightly.

Final specs with strings, stock wilson pro stock synthetic grip, wilson overgrip and panda dampener.

static weight: 12.1 ounces
balance: 11pts HL
swing weight: haven't measured this yet

My main racquet for years has been the RF97. I've always played with and preferred 12.5+ frames. I'd sometimes struggle with the weight but the mass, plow, feel and stability always brought me back.

As we all know, the bonus of pro stock is that the frame can be customised to exactly match your desired specs. Unfortunately, unless you are a pro, finding the exact absolute best specs for your game is not an easy thing to achieve.

I don't know if pro stock frames are magic, but i've never had a frame feel so easy to play with. Borna's specs really worked for me. It felt like i had an unfair advantage. Everything was just so easy. Groundstrokes, Volleys, Serves, etc.

I do believe the integrity of pro stocks clearly add an advantage as well they should considering what's at stake for tennis professionals in terms of results and earnings.

My final specs of 12.1 ounces at 11pts hl is a difficult spec to arrive at unless you are starting with a pro stock. It would not have been possible to match with my RF97 or any other retail frame.

I'm aware that this is the reason many prefer Angell as you can completely customise your frame similar to pro stock. I've tried Angell frames in the past and felt they were nice but I wasn't blown away as many others have been.

The beam of the H19 is 21mm which is a hair thinner than my RF97 (21.5mm), and combined with the lighter static weight (12.1 vs 12.8) makes it loads easier to swing, and even tho the balance is similar to my RF, the H19 does not feel clubby at all.

The frame feels like a thinner beamed, more maneuverable, slightly softer RF97 with all the other benefits of plow, control and power. Additionally I was able to get more topspin with the H19.

At impact the ball sinks into the string bed slightly with a nice modest flex and is held momentarily similar to my RF97 but less harsh.

My racquet illness is finally cured. After hitting with this frame i'm not sure I can ever hit with anything else.
Click to expand...
You’d like Angell tennis racquets.
 
Jouke said:
What Angell frames did you play with?
Click to expand...

TC95
16X19
weight 315 (11.11 oz)
balance 320mm (32cm)
stiffness 63RA
grip 4 1/4


TC95
18X20
weight 330 (11.64 oz)
balance 305mm (30.5 cm)
stiffness 63RA
grip 4 3/8

I modded them both to get close to 12 ounces.
Both felt too flexy, muted, and sort of delicately thin with very little feel.

Keep in mind that i've always liked stiff 12.5+ frames with thin gauge low tension strings installed.

I bought both frames used.
 
mad dog1 said:
Hey vs, have you tried the ultra tour yet? If so, how does it compare with your tc97? Thanks!
Click to expand...

I know your query was meant for VS, but i quite enjoyed the Ultra Tour. I ended up still liking my RF97 better but the Ultra Tour is a fantastic platform frame ready to be modded. It's a fairly open 18x20 string bed and i was able to get really good topspin.
 
asifallasleep said:
I know your query was meant for VS, but i quite enjoyed the Ultra Tour. I ended up still liking my RF97 better but the Ultra Tour is a fantastic platform frame ready to be modded. It's a fairly open 18x20 string bed and i was able to get really good topspin.
Click to expand...
Thanks for weighing in. I haven’t tried the rf97 but just based on the specs, I think I’d have some trouble dealing with that much weight. Yeah, I’m loving the ultra tour so far. I’m having no trouble generating lots of topspin. There’s nothing I don’t like about it. It’s my main squeeze now...but you know us ‘holics are always wondering if there might be something even better out there. :D
 
asifallasleep said:
I know your query was meant for VS, but i quite enjoyed the Ultra Tour. I ended up still liking my RF97 better but the Ultra Tour is a fantastic platform frame ready to be modded. It's a fairly open 18x20 string bed and i was able to get really good topspin.
Click to expand...

What would you consider a closed 18x20? The Ultra Tour is pretty close to a prestige mid / mp from what I can tell.
 
moon shot said:
What would you consider a closed 18x20? The Ultra Tour is pretty close to a prestige mid / mp from what I can tell.
Click to expand...
I have both prestige mid and midplus. The mid is definitely denser. And I think the midplus is slightly denser as well. My 17g poly strings last longer in my prestige mp than in my ultra tour.
 
moon shot said:
What would you consider a closed 18x20? The Ultra Tour is pretty close to a prestige mid / mp from what I can tell.
Click to expand...

I haven't visually compared it to other 18X20's but the amount of topspin i could generate was sweet and it just didn't have that dense feeling of so many other 18X20 frames. What mods have you made or are you playing it stock?
 
zalive said:
Well one thing is a good platform; another is a good customization/specs. Welcome to the conclusion what can be done with it.
Measure the SW when you catch the opportunity, it will be good to know.
Click to expand...

My swing weight is 326, due in large part to a full bed of 19g poly.

Anyone else using 16-18g strings would move quickly past 330.

I think Borna uses a gut/lux hybrid which would take it to maybe 340? Perhaps?
 
jayserinos99 said:
Hi OP, please measure the swingweight and let us know what it is. I currently have 2 really light RF97s that are somewhat close to the spec (345g, 9pt HL, low to mid 320sw, strung with TB18, no dampener, karakal grip and 1 wilson pro og) and I think the RF97 frame itself is a bit thick to really get that fast swing for me (love the plow though).
Click to expand...

Wow those are really light RF97's. I thought mine were below spec. I think I would love your frames, lol.

The weight of the RF97 is in the head and with the H19 it's more towards the handle. Even if both frames have the same balance the RF would feel more head heavy or club like due to the weight distribution.

My strung specs are 344 grams, 11 pt hl, 326 sw.

The RF97 is hard to whip, I think it works better with smooth relaxed strokes. I was however through various fitness stages able to whip it for awhile. No longer tho, LOL. Perhaps you can try just playing with two overgrips and taking your static weight down below 12 ounces. I had some success with that. It's does lower your HL balance. You never know tho.

And yes, the H19's thinner beam makes a huge difference in maneuverability and being able to whip the racquet.

After my hit today it really made me understand somewhat why Monfils goofs around so much. The H19 is just so easy to swing it just makes you want to try all kinds of ridiculous shots.

The RF97 is based off the H22 which has a thicker more powerful beam. I must admit that the H19 feels closer to the K90 than the H22.
 
Last edited:
asifallasleep said:
My swing weight is 326, due in large part to a full bed of 19g poly.

Anyone else using 16-18g strings would move quickly past 330.

I think Borna uses a gut/lux hybrid which would take it to maybe 340? Perhaps?
Click to expand...

If you weigh your poly strings next time you cut out and measure the height of the center of the stringbed we could estimate unstrung swingweight. Then If someone who uses Coric’s hybrid in a RF weighs their strings we would have a pretty solid estimate.
 
asifallasleep said:
I haven't visually compared it to other 18X20's but the amount of topspin i could generate was sweet and it just didn't have that dense feeling of so many other 18X20 frames. What mods have you made or are you playing it stock?
Click to expand...

On my Ultra Tour I took the long road of trying many different lighter weights and longer balances until I ended up pretty close to where my 6.1 95 were but with a bit less weight.

UT: 349.5g 32cm 355sw
6.1: 363g 31.5cm 350sw
 
mad dog1 said:
I just went out to my garage and compared the UT to the igyt mp and the last cross nearest the throat is a bit lower on my UT. Strings don’t last as long in my UT as they do in my prestige mp as well.
Click to expand...

I guess I usually think of density as the center 8 mains and crosses, but I can see how one would use the outermost strings as reference. I consider the Blade to be a open 18x20 while the 6.1 95 18x20 is medium density. Between these three there is a bit of difference here and there but I'd consider them generally in the same group.

I don't want to derail this thread, I'm posting a graphic over here if you want to discuss it further. Thanks!
 
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I've never seen an H19, but this summer a junior I know really well plays with the H22's and I shadow swung them around a bit. Much better quality then what Wilson puts out retail wise. They seemed similar to Yonex when it comes to quality. I wouldn't touch Wilson because of their QC but pro stock definitely would.

Looks like you scored some nice ones, hold onto them and enjoy them.
 
moon shot said:
I guess I usually think of density as the center 8 mains and crosses, but I can see how one would use the outermost strings as reference. I consider the Blade to be a open 18x20 while the 6.1 95 18x20 is medium density. Between these three there is a bit of difference here and there but I'd consider them generally in the same group.

I don't want to derail this thread, I'm posting a graphic over here if you want to discuss it further. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Speed Pro has the tightest 18x20 known to man.
 
TennisHound said:
Speed Pro has the tightest 18x20 known to man.
Click to expand...

I’ll have to check that out next time I see the kid that hits with one. You think it is more dense than a prestige?

The mains look really tight but the crosses not as dense in the middle making the grid more rectangular
 
moon shot said:
I’ll have to check that out next time I see the kid that hits with one. You think it is more dense than a prestige?

The mains look really tight but the crosses not as dense in the middle making the grid more rectangular
Click to expand...
Wow, I just saw your string spacing comparison in Monfils Ultra Tour thread. Awesome
 
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bogdan101 said:
Did you happen to measure those before modding?
Click to expand...

Popped my strings today in one of the frames. So here are the specs unstrung, overgrip removed, borna mods still on frame (lead, silicone, etc):

unstrung specs:
static weight: 321 grams
balance: 30.33 cm (12.5 pts hl)
 
Last edited:
I sorta get now why Monfils tries really silly shots. With it's fairly thin beam and being so easy to swing, it makes you want to try so many insane shots.

I ate through my 19g strings in about 3 hours, so it definitely likes to eat strings. A lot quicker than my RF97. I may try 18's. I think the flex grabs the ball even more which adds to the friction on the strings.
 
asifallasleep said:
I sorta get now why Monfils tries really silly shots. With it's fairly thin beam and being so easy to swing, it makes you want to try so many insane shots.

I ate through my 19g strings in about 3 hours, so it definitely likes to eat strings. A lot quicker than my RF97. I may try 18's. I think the flex grabs the ball even more which adds to the friction on the strings.
Click to expand...
Any thoughts on getting grommets or head guard?
 
moon shot said:
I'd be curious how far off a PS97 or Blade 16x19 is from the drill pattern.
Click to expand...
Very good point. The head shapes are completely different, but that's what a heat gun or hair dryer is for. I know the string pattern from my Blade 18x20 looked almost exactly the same as my H22. The Blade's beam shape was more rounded, but a Pro Staff grommet may be close for the H19 16x19. I wonder how close a Prestige Pro would be (probably way off, but who knows)?
 
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