Perfection: Wilson H19 16X19 Pro Stock

moon shot

Hall of Fame
Very good point. The head shapes are completely different, but that's what a heat gun or hair dryer is for. I know the string pattern from my Blade 18x20 looked almost exactly the same as my H22. The Blade's beam shape was more rounded, but a Pro Staff grommet may be close for the H19 16x19. I wonder how close a Prestige Pro would be (probably way off, but who knows)?
Whoops, the blade has four pairs in the throat, but I do wonder about the PS97. The head guard looks similar.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Whoops, the blade has four pairs in the throat, but I do wonder about the PS97. The head guard looks similar.
What about the blade 16x19 grommets? Maybe those would fit with a little trimming. Although those are hard to find as well for the non-parallel drilled versions.
 

moon shot

Hall of Fame
What about the blade 16x19 grommets? Maybe those would fit with a little trimming. Although those are hard to find as well for the non-parallel drilled versions.
I’m absolutely just speculating but...

It looks like his h19 here has skips both on 8 and six holes in the throat.

The PS97 is 7&9 skips so I just blew my theory out. It does have six drills though. Just about everything else wilson makes has these skips, which leaves...

The blade has skips both on 8 but the four drills in the throat would seem to indicate it’s either may be more dense or has a wider bridge which means it may have too short grommets for the first mains outside the throat. I suppose they could have parallel drilled this one too.

I bet they make the grommets custom now that I think about it. Monfils played grommets that had particular designs on them for a few years after the blade dropped the designs. It would make sense to do a big batch of the custom grommet mold for the pros.
 

TennisHound

Legend
^^The fact is, the H19 16x19 is a completely different racquet and head shape than any retail racquet made and retail grommets won't fit.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
^^The fact is, the H19 16x19 is a completely different racquet and head shape than any retail racquet made and retail grommets won't fit.
Well, it might be possible to Frankenstein something together. I’ve done it before for an old head graphite master. Not ideal and a lot of work but hey, if this is OP’s holy grail, it would be worth it when the time comes for new grommets.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
I don't think I will need grommets anytime soon. However, the comments may lead me to secure some new ones sooner rather than later. I may try Wilson or the Wilson Pro Room or Priority 1.
 

TennisHound

Legend
I don't think I will need grommets anytime soon. However, the comments may lead me to secure some new ones sooner rather than later. I may try Wilson or the Wilson Pro Room or Priority 1.
When you get a chance just PM me the phone number to the Wilson Pro Room if you don't mind :D
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
After a few weeks with the H19 here's my update:

H19 was eating my 19g cyclone in 3 hours so i switched to 18g cyclone. Also removed the Pro Stock synth grip which was only 9 grams and super thin. Added a Wilson Leather grip and a few grams at 12 and now I'm at 359 grams and 12 points hl.

The frame feels stiffer than my RF97, has a little less power and the 16X19 is not as open as the RF97. The trajectory of spin off the RF97 is higher, the H19 has more control and less pop. It's basically the difference from a H22 and the H19 I believe. I've never hit with a 18X20 H19, but I don't think there would be a huge difference from my 16X19. It plays like a tight 16X19 string bed.

Swing weight is now 341, up from 326.
 
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PSC85

Semi-Pro
After a few weeks with the H19 here's my update:

H19 was eating my 19g cyclone in 3 hours so i switched to 18g cyclone. Also removed the Pro Stock synth grip which was only 9 grams and super thin. Added a Wilson Leather grip and a few grams at 12 and now I'm at 359 grams and 12 points hl.

The frame feels stiffer than my RF97, has a little less power and the 16X19 is not as open as the RF97. The trajectory of spin off the RF97 is higher, the H19 has more control and less pop. It's basically the difference from a H21 and the H19 I believe. I've never hit with a 18X20 H19, but I don't think there would be a huge difference from my 16X19. It plays like a tight 16X19 string bed.

I'll have to measure the swing weight. I'm guessing maybe 335-340 now, up from 326.
Pretty much my thoughts also of my 18x20 H19. Seems string sensitive and although measured at 57RA, felt much stiffer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Pretty much my thoughts also of my 18x20 H19. Seems string sensitive and although measured at 57RA, felt much stiffer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is the H19 your main stick? What strings and tension are you using? I've got volkl cyclone 18g at 40lbs.
 

PSC85

Semi-Pro
Is the H19 your main stick? What strings and tension are you using? I've got volkl cyclone 18g at 40lbs.
Tried to use it as my main but just felt harsher and less refined than PT630. Maybe it had something to do with my string setup with Babolat Origin at 53/51. But the same setup on other frame felt pretty decent and plush.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Tried to use it as my main but just felt harsher and less refined than PT630. Maybe it had something to do with my string setup with Babolat Origin at 53/51. But the same setup on other frame felt pretty decent and plush.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok. I could never get my PT630's to the hl balance I needed without adding a ton of weight.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
After a few weeks with the H19 here's my update:

H19 was eating my 19g cyclone in 3 hours so i switched to 18g cyclone. Also removed the Pro Stock synth grip which was only 9 grams and super thin. Added a Wilson Leather grip and a few grams at 12 and now I'm at 359 grams and 12 points hl.

The frame feels stiffer than my RF97, has a little less power and the 16X19 is not as open as the RF97. The trajectory of spin off the RF97 is higher, the H19 has more control and less pop. It's basically the difference from a H22 and the H19 I believe. I've never hit with a 18X20 H19, but I don't think there would be a huge difference from my 16X19. It plays like a tight 16X19 string bed.

Swing weight is now 341, up from 326.
Heavier grip like leather grip changes how racquet swings. So does leading it up (you increased SW by 15 pts). Possibly as an outcome you created a certain customization (specs) which made your racquet laggy to swing with, which affects hitting sensation, so it can feel stiffer too. It comes from losing part of your RHS.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Heavier grip like leather grip changes how racquet swings. So does leading it up (you increased SW by 15 pts). Possibly as an outcome you created a certain customization (specs) which made your racquet laggy to swing with, which affects hitting sensation, so it can feel stiffer too. It comes from losing part of your RHS.
The frame was stiff before my mods. It's not a complaint but an observation. I added the leather grip and the lead to get to where I am spec wise now, which is close to my RF97 specs, and I'm quite happy. RHS has not suffered, plow and stability have increased.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
The frame was stiff before my mods. It's not a complaint but an observation. I added the leather grip and the lead to get to where I am spec wise now, which is close to my RF97 specs, and I'm quite happy. RHS has not suffered, plow and stability have increased.
Yet I'm sensing a tone of disappointment in between your words, which happens now as you have modded it.
 
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asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Yet I'm sensing a tone of disappointment in between your words, which happen now as you have modded it.
Hopefully you aren't a psychic as I'd suggest it's time for a career change.

My objective was to make the frame similar to my RF97 in terms of swing weight and balance. I succeeded in that regard. I got more plow, power and stability. I've also always preferred the feel of a leather grip.

I haven't yet decided if the stiffness is an issue that i'll have to address. Clearly with this round of mods my goal wasn't to lessen stiffness, as replacing the synth grip with a leather grip is a step in the wrong direction in that regard.

If I decide it's too stiff, i'll go hybrid or multi vs my current full bed of poly. I'm also one of the few that I'm aware of who comfortably went full bed of poly in a RF97 with no ill effects.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
Hopefully you aren't a psychic as I'd suggest it's time for a career change.

My objective was to make the frame similar to my RF97 in terms of swing weight and balance. I succeeded in that regard. I got more plow, power and stability. I've also always preferred the feel of a leather grip.

I haven't yet decided if the stiffness is an issue that i'll have to address. Clearly with this round of mods my goal wasn't to lessen stiffness, as replacing the synth grip with a leather grip is a step in the wrong direction in that regard.

If I decide it's too stiff, i'll go hybrid or multi vs my current full bed of poly. I'm also one of the few that I'm aware of who comfortably went full bed of poly in a RF97 with no ill effects.
Don't worry.
So what was the goal? If it was to get the racquet more HL I suggest bringing the synt grip back with adding some lead at the butt. It will have a different effect on how racquet swings, and if leather was a step in the wrong direction this will help.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Don't worry.
So what was the goal? If it was to get the racquet more HL I suggest bringing the synt grip back with adding some lead at the butt. It will have a different effect on how racquet swings, and if leather was a step in the wrong direction this will help.
I'm a mod master, thanks for the advice but i'm already hip to all that. I wasn't seeking advice or help with modding, just sharing my experience with the H19 for all who might be interested.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
I'm a mod master, thanks for the advice but i'm already hip to all that. I wasn't seeking advice or help with modding, just sharing my experience with the H19 for all who might be interested.
I didn't think you did, but your description sounded like there's something not quite being done perfectly in this respect. If you're a mod master that's great, I can understand work in progress well, I'm doing this myself until I'm completely satisfied.
 

Panquake

Rookie




I was fortunate enough to acquire 3 of Borna Coric's frames this week and had the chance to hit with them.

This is my first go around with a pro stock frame and I was blown away. The materials used, the paint job, the silicone in the handle, the look and feel, all just seem to be on a different level when compared to retail frames.

I know there has been a lot of discussion re the Ultra Tour being a H19. I think it's possible the UT is from the same mold, but the materials used in the H19 IMO are completely different. Could I get the same H19 feel if I added silicone to the UT and modded it exactly, i'd imagine it's possible but because the materials used in construction seem to be different I'm not so sure.

In terms of playability, my first impression is that the pros have a huge gear advantage. When acquired the frames were still matched to Borna's specs.

I added my strings (Volkl cyclone 19g at 40lbs.) which increased the HL balance slightly.

Final specs with strings, stock wilson pro stock synthetic grip, wilson overgrip and panda dampener.

static weight: 12.1 ounces
balance: 11pts HL
swing weight: 326

My main racquet for years has been the RF97. I've always played with and preferred 12.5+ frames. I'd sometimes struggle with the weight but the mass, plow, feel and stability always brought me back.

As we all know, the bonus of pro stock is that the frame can be customised to exactly match your desired specs. Unfortunately, unless you are a pro, finding the exact absolute best specs for your game is not an easy thing to achieve.

I don't know if pro stock frames are magic, but i've never had a frame feel so easy to play with. Borna's specs really worked for me. It felt like i had an unfair advantage. Everything was just so easy. Groundstrokes, Volleys, Serves, etc.

I do believe the integrity of pro stocks clearly add an advantage as well they should considering what's at stake for tennis professionals in terms of results and earnings.

My final specs of 12.1 ounces at 11pts hl is a difficult spec to arrive at unless you are starting with a pro stock. It would not have been possible to match with my RF97 or any other retail frame.

I'm aware that this is the reason many prefer Angell as you can completely customise your frame similar to pro stock. I've tried Angell frames in the past and felt they were nice but I wasn't blown away as many others have been.

The beam of the H19 is 21mm which is a hair thinner than my RF97 (21.5mm), and combined with the lighter static weight (12.1 vs 12.8) makes it loads easier to swing, and even tho the balance is similar to my RF, the H19 does not feel clubby at all.

The frame feels like a thinner beamed, more maneuverable, slightly softer RF97 with all the other benefits of plow, control and power. Additionally I was able to get more topspin with the H19.

At impact the ball sinks into the string bed slightly with a nice modest flex and is held momentarily similar to my RF97 but less harsh.

My racquet illness is finally cured. After hitting with this frame i'm not sure I can ever hit with anything else.
I hate to break it to you, but those are H22's. I own 2 H22's and have seen an H19 in person before, and I can confirm by the mold (the throat is the biggest giveaway), that those are definitely H22's. If you can put me in contact with the person you bought these from, I would love to buy some!
 

TennisHound

Legend
I hate to break it to you, but those are H22's. I own 2 H22's and have seen an H19 in person before, and I can confirm by the mold (the throat is the biggest giveaway), that those are definitely H22's. If you can put me in contact with the person you bought these from, I would love to buy some!
Wow
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
I hate to break it to you, but those are H22's. I own 2 H22's and have seen an H19 in person before, and I can confirm by the mold (the throat is the biggest giveaway), that those are definitely H22's. If you can put me in contact with the person you bought these from, I would love to buy some!
You are wrong. These are H19 and they are 20mm. They are thinner than a H22 and they play like control frames. The H22 is much wider and shorter in the throat and has a lot more power than these frames. The H19 is much longer and more narrow in the neck.

My H19's are thinner than my RF97's and close to the thinness of my PT630's. H22's are thicker than my RF97.

All the pics I've seen of the H22's have 8 strings in the throat. My 16X19 H19's have 6 strings in the throat. Have you seen H22's with 6 strings in the throat?

Take a look at the photos below and notice the length and shape of the necks.

Clearly my frames are H19 judging from the width, the throat length shape and the playing characteristics.

H19
https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagra...59_1113936462042555_8355116321767161856_n.jpg

H22
https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagra...182_314152519069833_1896125093638045696_n.jpg

Perhaps the angle of my first pics on the wooden floor confused you? At a glance I can see how they could be mistaken as H22. However if you look at my 2nd pic on the courts, they clearly are H19's. Look how narrow they are in the lower part of the throat. Also the length.



It was late and I was tired when I posted this and I used a pro stock photo and a photo of Monfils thinking they both had 6 strings in the throat when they both had 8 because they were 18X20 frames.

Thanks to moon shot for spotting these errors.

Again, the throat length and shape, beam thickness, and playing characteristics all point to my frames being H19's. Which they are.
 
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moon shot

Hall of Fame
You are wrong. These are H19 and they are 20mm. They are thinner than a H22 and they play like control frames. The H22 is much wider and shorter in the throat and has a lot more power than these frames. The H19 is much longer and more narrow in the neck.

Due to the width of the throat, H22's have 8 strings in the throat. H19's because they are more narrow have 6 strings in the throat. My frames have 6 strings in the throat. Zoom in on Monfils H19, 6 strings in the throat!!

http://images.indianexpress.com/2017/06/monfils-m.jpg


Take a look at the photos below and zoom in to the throat.

Clearly my frames are H19 judging from the width, the throat shape and the playing characteristics.

H19
https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagra...59_1113936462042555_8355116321767161856_n.jpg

H22
https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagra...182_314152519069833_1896125093638045696_n.jpg

Perhaps the angle of my first pics on the wooden floor confused you? At a glance I can see how they could be mistaken as H22. However if you look at my 2nd pic on the courts, they clearly are H19's. Look how narrow they are in the lower part of the throat. Also the length.



If you look at the throat of the retail Ultra Tours which are supposed to based off the H19 mold, they also have 6 strings in the throat.
I do believe your frames are the H19 mold but I have a slight correction. Monfils frame does have 8 mains in the throat, but that is because his is 18x20 and yours is 16x19.

 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Borna Coric's frame has 8 mains in throat and 16x19 pattern.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you do a image search you can find pics of him with frames with 6 and 8 in the throat. Advantages of being a pro include custom layouts from established mould i guess.

The frame in the pic below matches my frame. There are 6 main standalone strings in the throat while the other outer strings in the throat go through the curvature of the frame.

Count six mains on either side to find the start point.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/-/media...23/00/55/coric-winston-salem-2017-tuesday.jpg

or this pic you can see the throat grommet which has 6 strings and not 8.

https://cdn-02.belfasttelegraph.co....05229.ece/ce73d/AUTOCROP/w620/Borna-Coric.jpg


Also if you compare your pic and the one i posted, the frame in my pic appears to have a tighter stringbed with the top crosses beginning lower. Perhaps he has a standard and a tighter 16X19 frame depending on the surface? Very interesting.

I did mention that my 16X19 doesn't feel as open as a standard 16X19.
 
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zalive

Hall of Fame
If you do a image search you can find pics of him with frames with 6 and 8 in the throat. Advantages of being a pro include custom layouts from established mould i guess.

The frame in the pic below matches my frame. There are 6 main standalone strings in the throat while the other outer strings in the throat go through the curvature of the frame.

Count six mains on either side to find the start point.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/-/media...23/00/55/coric-winston-salem-2017-tuesday.jpg

or this pic you can see the throat grommet which has 6 strings and not 8.

https://cdn-02.belfasttelegraph.co....05229.ece/ce73d/AUTOCROP/w620/Borna-Coric.jpg


Also if you compare your pic and the one i posted, the frame in my pic appears to have a tighter stringbed with the top crosses beginning lower. Perhaps he has a standard and a tighter 16X19 frame depending on the surface? Very interesting.

I did mention that my 16X19 doesn't feel as open as a standard 16X19.
On your upper picture I'm counting 8 at the throat...on lower it seems like 6...

Anyway from what I heard, Borna was trying more different frames lately, not only the H19...however it is possible that Wilson have two different 16x19 grommets for different drilling...another possibility is you have a similar pro stock (from Borna), but not the H19.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
New mods with the H19.

I removed the synthetic grip and lead strips Borna had on the frame at 3 and 9 added a Wilson Leather Grip and 4 grams of lead at 12.
I went from the 19g cyclone to 18g cyclone.

New specs:

Static weight: 357 grams (12.6 oz)
Swing Weight: 334
Balance: 11pts HL
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
New Mods again:

Wilson H19 (16X19)
19g Volkl Cyclone @ 40lbs
Wilson black leather grip (the thin RF97 one)
Gamma Panda Dampener

Lead:
1.5 grams @ 12
2 grams @ 3
2 grams @ 9

Static weight: 353 grams (12.45 ounces)
Swingweight: 349
Balance: 12 pts HL


With this setup the frame has more power and more stability than my RF97. It's a beast. I'm able to handle the higher swingweight because of the thinner beam and the extreme HL balance. Translates for me into better serves and better volley's.
 
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Phantasm

Semi-Pro
New Mods again:

Wilson H19 (16X19)
19g Volkl Cyclone @ 40lbs
Wilson black leather grip (the thin RF97 one)
Gamma Panda Dampener

Lead:
1.5 grams @ 12
2 grams @ 3
2 grams @ 9

Static weight: 353 grams (12.45 ounces)
Swingweight: 349
Balance: 12 pts HL


With this setup the frame has more power and more stability than my RF97. It's a beast. I'm able to handle the higher swingweight because of the thinner beam and the extreme HL balance. Translates for me into better serves and better volley's.
it's amazing how beefy these prostocks can get with just a few mods. I'm at 345 SW with my h22s but it doesn't feel too cumbersome to swing.
 

TennisHound

Legend
I wonder if a (pre-graphene) Prestige Pro would be similar to the H19? I would probably choose a Microgel Prestige Pro over an Ultra Tour 16x19.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
I hate to break it to you, but those are H22's. I own 2 H22's and have seen an H19 in person before, and I can confirm by the mold (the throat is the biggest giveaway), that those are definitely H22's. If you can put me in contact with the person you bought these from, I would love to buy some!
I finally got a H22 a few days ago and like I said my frames are indeed thinner and the throat is also different: they are H19's.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
have you had a new chance to hit with them yet? welcome to an ever growing brotherhood of h22 owners!
I did. I found my RF97 to have more feel, more spin and was easier to maneuver . The H22 had more plow, felt stiffer, and more muted, with more control.

The H22 i got had lead under the bumper guard, and i added a leather grip to make it more hl. It was an incredibly light frame even with the leather grip and lead (only 330g) with a very high swing weight. Balance ended up at 5 pts (which is not hl enough for me). My RF97's are 357grams and 12pts hl.

What would be interesting is to see how the H22 performs if I mod it to meet the specs of my RF97.

The H22 seemed like a frame that a hard hitting baseliner would enjoy. Does that sound accurate? My RF97 feels more suited to an all court game, where power and finesse are utilized (which makes sense as Fed designed it). My strokes and style of play, albeit on a different level are almost exactly like Fed's.
 

Phantasm

Semi-Pro
I did. I found my RF97 to have more feel, more spin and was easier to maneuver . The H22 had more plow, felt stiffer, and more muted, with more control.

The H22 i got had lead under the bumper guard, and i added a leather grip to make it more hl. It was an incredibly light frame even with the leather grip and lead (only 330g) with a very high swing weight. Balance ended up at 5 pts (which is not hl enough for me). My RF97's are 357grams and 12pts hl.

What would be interesting is to see how the H22 performs if I mod it to meet the specs of my RF97.

The H22 seemed like a frame that a hard hitting baseliner would enjoy. Does that sound accurate? My RF97 feels more suited to an all court game, where power and finesse are utilized (which makes sense as Fed designed it). My strokes and style of play, albeit on a different level are almost exactly like Fed's.
Calling it a baseliners frame is probably one way of putting it but I don't think it does anything badly. Serving with it is nice with the stiffer head the extra weight in the head. Pros still tend to add more lead in the head despite it having a relatively decent amt in the head to begin with. I only have about 2-3 grams of lead on my 16/19 H22 at 12 o clock which seemed like a good setup so I haven't tried adding anymore.

It's stiff, like a solid stiff but not an uncomfortable stiff. There's definitely some adjustment to get used to it with the stiff head.

Can't really compare with the RF97. With all the racquet demo'ing I've done, actually never actually tried the RF97, only regular PS97s back during the red/black PJ with the 97 in the throat before all the matte business. I can't remember much about it but I do remember enjoying it.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Calling it a baseliners frame is probably one way of putting it but I don't think it does anything badly. Serving with it is nice with the stiffer head the extra weight in the head. Pros still tend to add more lead in the head despite it having a relatively decent amt in the head to begin with. I only have about 2-3 grams of lead on my 16/19 H22 at 12 o clock which seemed like a good setup so I haven't tried adding anymore.

It's stiff, like a solid stiff but not an uncomfortable stiff. There's definitely some adjustment to get used to it with the stiff head.

Can't really compare with the RF97. With all the racquet demo'ing I've done, actually never actually tried the RF97, only regular PS97s back during the red/black PJ with the 97 in the throat before all the matte business. I can't remember much about it but I do remember enjoying it.
I think if i made the specs similar to my RF that I would rescind my comment about it being a baseliner frame. I need and prefer a very hl frame, whereas the 5pts my H22 is at just lends itself to bashing more, at least for me. The H22 I got had quite a bit of lead under the head guard.

Any idea what the balance of your frame is?
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
I started using my H19's recently and increased the static weight to 359 grams.....added more weight to the head and the grip. It really plays so much now like a larger Pro Staff 85 imo, which is a very pleasant surprise. Insane stability, directional control, maneuverability and plow thru.

It's not quite as stiff as my St Vincent PS 85's but the custom Borna layup stiffness is pretty close. I think it overtook my PT630's in my bag because the H19 as a pro stock is so light I have tons of room to mod. A bigger sweetspot is nice as well.
 
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