Perpetual defensive topspin lob rally?

It is a good drill and will help in learning how to hit off the rise. But it’s much different in point play as compared to hitting off a ball machine. Taking one step to a spot that you know the ball is coming to with a moderate bounce is a lot different compared to a heavy topspin shot that kicks different on almost every shot.

I play against a couple guys that can hit my looping shots off the rise pretty well, but in point play I can move them around enough and vary the depth so that they can’t hit that many off the rise.
 
tlm said:
It is a good drill and will help in learning how to hit off the rise. But it’s much different in point play as compared to hitting off a ball machine. Taking one step to a spot that you know the ball is coming to with a moderate bounce is a lot different compared to a heavy topspin shot that kicks different on almost every shot.

I play against a couple guys that can hit my looping shots off the rise pretty well, but in point play I can move them around enough and vary the depth so that they can’t hit that many off the rise.
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Op has to start somewhere to break the cycle. That drill couldnt hurt him and werent you arguing that there is a difference between lobs and agressive topspin shots? From what the op is describing he has plenty of time and warning to get to the ball. But if he cant hit on the rise he will never break the cycle. So as I said he should practice hitting on the rise.

And returning the kind of spin you are talking about is exactly the reason to have a high sw racquet strung tight...
 
Shroud said:
Op has to start somewhere to break the cycle. That drill couldnt hurt him and werent you arguing that there is a difference between lobs and agressive topspin shots? From what the op is describing he has plenty of time and warning to get to the ball. But if he cant hit on the rise he will never break the cycle. So as I said he should practice hitting on the rise.

And returning the kind of spin you are talking about is exactly the reason to have a high sw racquet strung tight...
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I agree what your doing with the ball machine is the perfect way to learn to take shots off the rise and it shows that your good at it. I think part of it is that helps you is your attack the ball thinking, you have to be fearless and just go after the ball.
 
nytennisaddict said:
against folks that can't step it (ie. 3.5-low4.0), the lobbing strat is excellent... even at mid-low 4.5 you'll find folks that will have trouble with this style (presuming you're consistent with it)
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Why would anyone keep employing this strategy? To me it goes back to what you want to get out of the game. I can understand winning at any cost being the goal for folks who have some tangible incentive tied to winning at any cost. Not sure why anyone would want to engage in a perpetual lobfest when approaching 50 and playing a rec level match. If my opponent was doing that, I'd just take it on the rise or in the air. If I make a mistake and lose the match due to my errors..so what? Better to finish that type of match early and do something more productive with your time.
 
mcs1970 said:
Why would anyone keep employing this strategy? To me it goes back to what you want to get out of the game. I can understand winning at any cost being the goal for folks who have some tangible incentive tied to winning at any cost. Not sure why anyone would want to engage in a perpetual lobfest when approaching 50 and playing a rec level match. If my opponent was doing that, I'd just take it on the rise or in the air. If I make a mistake and lose the match due to my errors..so what? Better to finish that type of match early and do something more productive with your time.
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I agree that I'd do something to break the pattern because 2 hours of lobbing does not appeal to me [unless I just wan to work on my lob or I'm procrastinating going home to face some chore].

But I'm assuming people do it because A) it works [wins]; B) they are afraid/don't know how to break the pattern; C) they were told by their coach to return a lob with another lob.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
I agree that I'd do something to break the pattern because 2 hours of lobbing does not appeal to me [unless I just wan to work on my lob or I'm procrastinating going home to face some chore].

But I'm assuming people do it because A) it works [wins]; B) they are afraid/don't know how to break the pattern; C) they were told by their coach to return a lob with another lob.
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Agreed about A. That's why I said, I can see it if you have some incentive tied to winning.

When you're approaching 50 as the OP and at a 3.5 level, I don't know why winning at any cost should matter, but apparently it does to some.

I'm approaching 50 too. Lob fest vs lobster fest at the buffet table...I'm cutting the former short to head to the latter. Even if no buffet to look forward to and am just procrastinating going home to a list of honey-dos, I'd just wrap the match early and roam around elsewhere before heading home.
 
mcs1970 said:
Why would anyone keep employing this strategy? To me it goes back to what you want to get out of the game. I can understand winning at any cost being the goal for folks who have some tangible incentive tied to winning at any cost. Not sure why anyone would want to engage in a perpetual lobfest when approaching 50 and playing a rec level match. If my opponent was doing that, I'd just take it on the rise or in the air. If I make a mistake and lose the match due to my errors..so what? Better to finish that type of match early and do something more productive with your time.
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some people realize their game is limited, and this is the only strat they have.
if i were playing tennis solely for the exercise, this is a great way to play (more fun than running 10 miles let's say)
personally i like the variety of bashing, slicing, drop, s&v, etc...
but when i play folks that out-hit me, yeah, i'm gonna try throwing up some lobs, off speed stuff, to attempt to slow down the pace
but in the end tennis is a game... choose whichever way you want to try to win... but if i criticize someone for being a lobber or whatever, then i'm just being a whiner.
 
nytennisaddict said:
some people realize their game is limited, and this is the only strat they have.
if i were playing tennis solely for the exercise, this is a great way to play (more fun than running 10 miles let's say)
personally i like the variety of bashing, slicing, drop, s&v, etc...
but when i play folks that out-hit me, yeah, i'm gonna try throwing up some lobs, off speed stuff, to attempt to slow down the pace
but in the end tennis is a game... choose whichever way you want to try to win... but if i criticize someone for being a lobber or whatever, then i'm just being a whiner.
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Not really. I'm not criticizing. I'm just puzzled why anyone would play this way especially when you're 3.5 and reaching 50. I don't see much exercise value in this either. Definitely not a great way to play for anything ,especially to get some running done. This is probably why TTPS stated recently he plays 2 sets without having to take a shower. Mixing up strokes and endlessly lobbing at the 3.5 level are two different things. Then again, as I said, winning at any cost for a low level rec game as I approach my 50s is not appealing to me. Maybe it is to a lot of others.
 
If possible, avoid it as much as possible. I don't want to get into those kinds of rallies personally. I'd rather slice return a serve to bring my opponent to no man's land than be forced into a topspin moonball rally.

Also, I guess if you were in position, it'd be possible to volley a topspin lob ball like that. Just walk forward into no man's land, take the ball before it lands and try to place it.
 
Enga said:
If possible, avoid it as much as possible. I don't want to get into those kinds of rallies personally. I'd rather slice return a serve to bring my opponent to no man's land than be forced into a topspin moonball rally.

Also, I guess if you were in position, it'd be possible to volley a topspin lob ball like that. Just walk forward into no man's land, take the ball before it lands and try to place it.
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Bethanie Mattek-Sands has a good video on the swinging volley [it's doubles but can easily be adapted to singles]:

 
you can also hit a good serve or return so that he can't set up for the high Topspin. you can't attack a deep high Topspin consistently but if you put pressure on him he will drop some on the Service line and then you can step in and attack them. don't allow the guy to take control of the Rally with his spin, if he can set up and rip deep Topspins to your BH you are in Trouble but if he is on the run the Topspins will be much weaker.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Bethanie Mattek-Sands has a good video on the swinging volley [it's doubles but can easily be adapted to singles]:

Click to expand...
It was a good vid except for the last tip. Though doubt 4.0 players could do that drill consistently. Lob returns and swinging volleys are tough shots and rarely practiced.
 
TimeToPlaySets said:
Who is talking about endlessly lobbing?
I am talking about getting stuck in a lob rally.
This does not mean the entire match is a lob fest.
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I was just responding to the statement that this strategy could be used all the way to a 4.5 level to win.

As for your own personal match, what stops you and your opponent from engaging in a lob fest, if each one has been robotically programmed to counter one lob with another? If you're just going to wait for your opponent to make a mistake, realize that you might run into other opponents who think that way. What then? At some point, if you don't have the skills/courage to step in and take some chances, you're going to be engaging in lob fest matches whether you want to or not.
 
TimeToPlaySets said:
See post #10
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I thought you meant you wait for the UE from your opponent. As you start playing better players, you'll find the odd perpetual moonballer who is content to wait for your UE. If you were stating you attack usually and are willing to take the chance to make an UE than get caught up in these types of rallies, then you're doing fine.
 
vex said:
This is what happens when players can't hit offensive shoulder height and higher forehands. I love when people hit me these shots. Aim for the corner, unload a completely flat FH, follow it in to volley away the inevitable weak defensive reply.

Or if the pace/spin is so amazing (unlikely) that you really can't time a shoulder height FH you can wait until the last moment b/f they hit the moonball and charge in, take it out of the air, direct to a corner, volley away the reply.
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I have a big problem with attacking forehands at shoulder height and above.
Whenever I try to do this, the ball seems to just sail on me and I end up hitting the back fence every time.
For now, I'm fine, because my topspin moonball forehand is one of my best shots.
But I need to learn how to attack that ball so I have options.
How can I begin to learn the attacking method?
 
Simon_the_furry said:
I have a big problem with attacking forehands at shoulder height and above.
Whenever I try to do this, the ball seems to just sail on me and I end up hitting the back fence every time.
For now, I'm fine, because my topspin moonball forehand is one of my best shots.
But I need to learn how to attack that ball so I have options.
How can I begin to learn the attacking method?
Click to expand...

 
Simon_the_furry said:
I have a big problem with attacking forehands at shoulder height and above.
Whenever I try to do this, the ball seems to just sail on me and I end up hitting the back fence every time.
For now, I'm fine, because my topspin moonball forehand is one of my best shots.
But I need to learn how to attack that ball so I have options.
How can I begin to learn the attacking method?
Click to expand...

Starting at 3:15 [note that, while also by Top Tennis Training, this is a different video than the one posted by @FiReFTW]:

 
You have to learn how to flatten that shot out. You can try taking it on the rise or taking it early. Or if you have the room, back up as far as you can.. None of these options are particularly easy if you haven't developed strong fundamental Strokes.
 
TimeToPlaySets said:

3 great high ball returns at :45, :47, and :50
This is what I mean by perpetual moonball rally.
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Those are not what I would call moonballs, those are heavy kicking topspin shots that are not easy to handle. A lot of rec players hit high shots with little spin and pace that is what I call moonballs.

I love to get into those kind of rally’s hitting heavy loopers side to side. These guys are really good but even they didn’t take them all off the rise they got pushed back but because they are so good they were still able to hit good shots.

But a lot of rec players even up to 4.5 level can have a hard time with those shots and make errors or cough up short balls.
 
"No."

e2VfK63.jpg
 
Embarrassing.....Excruciatingly painful to watch.....Hit the baseline overhead on those high balls!

Quit running around the backhand!

If a ball lands inside the service line, slice and come to net!

What is wrong with you? Did you learn from some 90-year old woman?
 
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The reason these kinds of balls can be particularly effective at rec level is because on most recreational or club courts the back fence is way too close to the baseline. This is even more of an issue on clay courts.
If you try to handle these shots by backtracking and letting them drop into your strikezone, you'll run into the fence. Your remaining options are all much trickier especially if the ball is really deep.
 
Wise one said:
Embarrassing.....Excruciatingly painful to watch.....Hit the baseline overhead on those high balls!

Quit running around the backhand!

If a ball lands inside the service line, slice and come to net!

What is wrong with you? Did you learn from some 90-year old woman?
Click to expand...

To which video are you referring?
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
To which video are you referring?
Click to expand...


I have never seen such cowardly tennis! There were several short balls hit by the fellow without a hat, and the one with a cap hit them back, and then retreated to the baseline! The idea is not to extend the point, it's to win it!

No net-play skills at all are evident.
 
Last edited:
Wise one said:
I have never seen such cowardly tennis! There were several short balls hit by the fellow without a hat, and the one with a cap hit them back, and then retreated to the baseline! The idea is not to extend the point, it's to win it!
Click to expand...

Well, keep trolling. Maybe someone will agree with you. By most people's standards, that's some pretty darn good tennis. Maybe you just have really high standards.
 
Wise one said:

I have never seen such cowardly tennis! There were several short balls hit by the fellow without a hat, and the one with a cap hit them back, and then retreated to the baseline! The idea is not to extend the point, it's to win it!

No net-play skills at all are evident.
Click to expand...

:53, 1:25,...?

where’s the vid of your super awesome baseline-defying-net-skills? show us how it’s done.
 
I'm assuming OP means deep topspin lobs that actually bounce way over your head. Otherwise if it's only shoulder high bounce, that's bread and butter.
 
Maybe the obvious but one is better at it than the other, once the other works out he's gonna lose his job is to ensure he does not get into that scenario. It's an issue if the one is Nadal, but unlikely in club tennis.
 
mad dog1 said:
I saw vitas getting lobbed and passed a lot
at net.
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Yeah, I think he could have played better. But then again, Borg missed some passes and lost many points to volleys. Of course, he was the best, and I saw Vitas take his eye off the ball sometimes, and dump the volleys into the net. Borg put that kind of pressure on you. Remember though, Vitas had match point in this match!
 
nytennisaddict said:
:53, 1:25,...?

where’s the vid of your super awesome baseline-defying-net-skills? show us how it’s done.
Click to expand...

It's an attitude. These guys are eager to continue rallying when there were opportunities to attack.

Last week it was mild here, and I hit some balls outside with a buddy. He hit a nice passing shot low and very wide to my left side, which I managed to hit backhanded with my back to the net, dropping it over the net on the side-line. Perfect stop-volley winner. I didn't even see the ball. This comes from an aggressive attitude and hitting lots of volleys.
 
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