Picking 12u Tournaments/ Levels (Norcal)

[SF_45er]

I would value any tips/advice from fellow junior parents and coaches on what might be best from a 12u junior player's progress (both points and learning wise):

- My 10 y/o has won 13 out 14 "green ball" matches played so far and now eligible for Yellow.
- Tournaments cost time and money, so looking for tips on what Yellow events to enter to maximize bang for the buck
- Daugher's WTN is around 28.7

Choices:
1. L5 Yellow tournament - 20 girls signed up (looks like it will offer lots of challenge) -- only one event in Norcal this year remains
2. L6 Yellow - only 8 girls signed up (but the best players have similar WTN as L5)
3. L7 Yellow - seems very similar to the green ball events (round robin) - WTN all lower than my daughter (if we trust that metric)

From a USTA points perspective -- what is the best bet to get started? Thinking of signing up for the L5 as there's only one event near us this year, and the level of the players (based on assumng WTN is accurate) looks reasonable (some below, some above).

 

[drivophd]

As far as WTN is concerned, some folks on the forum have done analysis of its accuracy for adults and it has been found to be valueless.

For comparison’s sake, your 10 y/o’s WTN is almost better than mine, a 4.5 man. I’d suggest using UTR as a point of reference for skill level instead.

 

[badmice2]

Speaking as a parent with player in Norcal tourneys…

Tourney L6 and up (L5 and so forth) have player selection with top down selection based on national ranking. Assuming you’re moving onto yellow ball (congrats on the promotion btw), I would say start at L7 u12 - which is bottoms up - and work your way through.

If your junior can go undefeated at L7 handily - 1 set first to 6, round Robbin, up to 4 matches in one day, they’re likely ready for L6. At that point, they will need to accumulate enough points to boost their ranking to guarantee entry. You may need to play a couple of extra L7 to boost those ranking point. L6 uses best 2 of 3 sets with 3 set tie. Many L6 will have a consolation draw. L5 and up will play beat if 3 sets. From experience it’ll take you about 2-3 solid L7 performance to guarantee entry into L6 draws.

Make sure they play through consolation. Ranking points are earned per round. Main draw holds higher value (20 per round win usually), with consolation holding about half (10 per round). They’re still earning points in consolation + you’ll start seeing the same kids playing these tournaments, will be good for them to Lear to size their opponent up. For consolation draw, they are typically playing fast 4.

On that note, as a parent, my advice is to make sure that your junior is having fun at these tournaments. Don’t look at the results too much and judge their performance based on win/lost. U12 wins in certain POV doesn’t matter too much. The ranking points a really needed to get into draws easier…especially as L5 and L4 shows up on the calendar.

Boys u12 is a super competitive field especially at the L6 level. Girls on the other hand may have more lead way at L6 without any previous ranking point. Either way, you can only do the best you can.

For my junior we were playing once per month with mixed results at u12. Our goal was focusing on his development rather than wins. Therefore we did just enough to get into draws and playing our way through. He has since aged out into U14, and have taking the game with seriousness. We’re on course to hit tourneys twice a month to fully try and chase ranking points.

 

[SF_45er]

Thanks @badmice2 this is super helpful! One obvious thing I’ve concluded: WTN rating is total garbage. I’m new to USTA so I took it as gospel and guidance (like I do for UTR for my own matches). I had assumed they can build a basic model like UTR on game wins % but apparently they cannot.

Looking through the draw - yeah L5 is a bad idea. Many of the girls are Top 50 NorCal.

For L6 many of the 12u girls events don’t seem at capacity so seems likely to get into 16 or 24 draw. If that’s the case we’ll probably just do that.

Once tourney every 6 weeks or so seems the pace we’re on. Given that just want to collect points we can to open more doors as you’re suggesting.

She seems to like the competition more than practice. So I want to make sure she has the best experience possible given scarce at bats for now.

 

[SF_45er]

@badmice2 here's a rookie question -

1/ if an L6 has a "16 draw limit" but only 8 girls signup - that means everyone gets to play regardless of points/ranking right? See below - one at LTC next week.

USTA / Lafayette Tennis Tournaments

Lafayette Tennis Tournaments

playtennis.usta.com

2/ Assuming you can get a spot at an L6 tourney - is it better to choose one with a fuller draw or less full? Ie is one with 8 better than 11 or vice versa (from POV of likely points)

USTA /

 

[SF_45er]

As far as WTN is concerned, some folks on the forum have done analysis of its accuracy for adults and it has been found to be valueless.

For comparison’s sake, your 10 y/o’s WTN is almost better than mine, a 4.5 man. I’d suggest using UTR as a point of reference for skill level instead.

Thanks for pointing that out. I had wrongly assumed if theyre going to roll out a rating it actually makes sense! It's just an Elo rating, based on games won, how hard can it be! Agree on UTR- thats what I do myself. But kid doesnt have one yet. Will be helpful in future.

 

[badmice2]

@badmice2 here's a rookie question -

1/ if an L6 has a "16 draw limit" but only 8 girls signup - that means everyone gets to play regardless of points/ranking right? See below - one at LTC next week.

USTA / Lafayette Tennis Tournaments

Lafayette Tennis Tournaments

playtennis.usta.com

2/ Assuming you can get a spot at an L6 tourney - is it better to choose one with a fuller draw or less full? Ie is one with 8 better than 11 or vice versa (from POV of likely points)

USTA /

It’s at the tournament director’s discretion to change the size of the draw. It doesn’t mean that they won’t keep the draw size they initially noted, but they may change it just to minimize the amount of work they need to do. You can always email them in advanced and get a feel (Hunter Galloway for Lafayette).

Most L6 will guarantee 2 matches..ie if you lose the main draw you get a 2nd match in the consolation. However if you’re looking from a points value, it’s not worth the effort. For example - points won per round in L6 main draw is 20 pts, and 10 for consolation. Assuming your junior bomb out of the main draw and win only 1 consolation match, she only earns 10 pts. If she plays L7, where each round is worth 10 pts, and wins all 3 matches (and each match is only 1 set), she just earned 30 pts. Therefore the incentive to play L7 with no points to defend is much better than bowing out early in L6. She will naturally get push out of L7 and she builds ranking points, so don’t feel like you’re hold her back. If anything you want to build confidence where she feels she is ready/promoted to L6. You also want her to feel she can fight through at least a round or 2 in L6.

Another thing worth mentioning about ranking points and ranking - it is based on points total from the best 6 tournaments within a time period (I want to say a 6 month period), not total accumulated points. This means if she gained points from 6 tourneys with point outcome of 10-10-20-15-10-5, her total points will be 70. If her 7th tourney within the same time period earns her 10 points, it replaces the lowest point value with within that span - in this case the 5 pts, changing her total to 75. This is also why you may want to take Advantage of the L7 from a ranking-building exercise to maximize the point value before potentially striking out from L6 early. Otherwise, using my example from above, she’s playing 4 sets of tennis to win 10 pts vs 3 sets to get 30.

To the point about WTN and UTR, take it with a grain of salt. These system truly matters only if players plays at a consistent cadence with a persistent progression…like pro players or ultra competitive juniors who plays every weekend. Otherwise the only gauge it tells you it’s the tournament expose a kid may have.

One more observation for Norcal - it’s hard to gauge talent level by tournaments and ranking. This came up as I drop my junior into a SoCal L6 recently, where someone as me about the competition and I couldn’t differentiate the talent level between their L6 vs L5 vs L4. In SoCal, there are way more variety of tourney level, where you can almost gauge a specific WTN/UTR range with each level. Our section lacks these upper tier tournaments. This means most juniors will cramp into L6 because there are no other choice. Therefore our L6 could potentially be comparable to a SoCal L5/L4 for all I know.