Pickle juice for cramps
- Thread starter Fugazi
- Start date
charliefedererer
Legend
I see no one has responded to your question.
Well, it's the salt (sodium chloride) in the pickle juice that is replenishing the salt lost in perspiration.
So you don't want sweet pickles - you want the "regular" ones.
You should know that there is sodium in sports drinks like Gaitoraid. That's how the vast majority of tennis players keep up their sodium content (as well as football players doing two-a-days in the August sun in Texas/FLA/Georgia).
You also should know that most cramps are not caused by electrolyte (sodium) deficits. Most are caused by overuse taxing muscles upsetting the delicate balance between positive and negative charges at the cellular level. Of course a sodium deficit can exacerbate this tendency though.
You can read more in the USTA Recovery in Tennis Booklet that you can download for free at: http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/dps...ence/RECOVERY PROJECT 22410 EMAIL VERSION.pdf
Well, it's the salt (sodium chloride) in the pickle juice that is replenishing the salt lost in perspiration.
So you don't want sweet pickles - you want the "regular" ones.
You should know that there is sodium in sports drinks like Gaitoraid. That's how the vast majority of tennis players keep up their sodium content (as well as football players doing two-a-days in the August sun in Texas/FLA/Georgia).
You also should know that most cramps are not caused by electrolyte (sodium) deficits. Most are caused by overuse taxing muscles upsetting the delicate balance between positive and negative charges at the cellular level. Of course a sodium deficit can exacerbate this tendency though.
You can read more in the USTA Recovery in Tennis Booklet that you can download for free at: http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/dps...ence/RECOVERY PROJECT 22410 EMAIL VERSION.pdf
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Power Player
Bionic Poster
Mustard packs have saved me many times. Just keep them in your bag and you can suck one down if you feel a cramp coming on.
I am a big fan of NUUN tabs to prevent cramps. I buy them at the local bicycle store in my town. I had two severe heat related cramping episodes this summer, since I started including two NUUN tabs in my water bottles (1 early 1 during matches) I have had ZERO problems. They taste way better than pickle juice.
Fugazi
Professional
Thanks for the answers guys, but I already use either Nuun tablets with Gatorade (regular Gatorade doesn't have enough electrolytes) or Clif Shot Electrolyte Drink powder.
I was under the impression that pickle juice and mustard were useful not so much because of the salt, but because of the acid and its supposed inhibitory effect on excessive muscle contraction. This is based on a lesser known cramp theory that implicates not so much the electrolytes, but rather an imbalance between excitation and inhibition of the alpha motor neurons when muscles become fatigued.
In any case, I'll try the regular pickle juice and might also try mustard if necessary.
I was under the impression that pickle juice and mustard were useful not so much because of the salt, but because of the acid and its supposed inhibitory effect on excessive muscle contraction. This is based on a lesser known cramp theory that implicates not so much the electrolytes, but rather an imbalance between excitation and inhibition of the alpha motor neurons when muscles become fatigued.
In any case, I'll try the regular pickle juice and might also try mustard if necessary.
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LuckyR
Legend
All of the liquids in pickles (as well as the drink marketed as Pickle Juice) have tons of sodium. So you are free to choose the one that you find the most palatable (I use that word loosely). However if you have a bowl of pretzels the night before your match, you will likely not need any of that stuff, especially at this time of year.
Better to prevent than treat.
jwardb
Professional
This is also my understanding. I see that you've already posted to the other recent thread on this. I found that the recipe that Bud offers there is quite easy to make (and of course has the acetic acid recommended by this theory). That said, I come from a family of competitive runners and they swear by the little yellow mustard packs...no mess, and they fit right in your pocket or bag...
Fugazi
Professional
I'll add the pretzels to the list, thanks!
markwillplay
Hall of Fame
I am a veteran of the pickle juice and also cramps...take my word for it.,...pickle juice works...take my word for it...do NOT over do....if you drink too much it will tear your stomach up bro. I got carried away one night and was up all night with diareah because I drank too much. Once you have been to the ER with complete cramps, you will do anything when you feel them coming on and I did drink way too much juice. There is a product called The Right Stuff" that is absolutely the best hands down. Just do a search and get some. It desolves in water and you drin k it before you play and then maybe every hour if you are still playing in the heat. Gatorade is BS...sorry guys...it is not concentrated enough for me and I know several people that are like me. Maybe we lose electrolites quicker or something, but gatorade will not catch you up near as quick as a little pickle juice or the "right stuff". Mustard is a great product as well and has higher concentration of what you lose (I believe) becuae I have actually used that as well. I think part of the pickle juice thing is that it gets into your system quickly and is very concentrated. Gatorade will hydrate you pretty well but you can go into cramnps and not be dehidrated at all. The day I went into the ER, I was not dehydrated and had consumed a ton og gatorade and water....no one really knows what causes cramps for sure but they supect it has to do with electrolites (sodium, yada yada). Food before hand works as well. If you are playing in the heat the next day and are going to be out there...eat a meal full of nutrients and increase your salt (the opposite of what you should do if you are not going to be spending hours on the court).
Oh yea, the gels really work well too. I used to consume those while I was playing and they did a much better job than gatorade.
Oh yea, the gels really work well too. I used to consume those while I was playing and they did a much better job than gatorade.
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XFactorer
Hall of Fame
So far, a majority of the science articles don't support the idea pickle juice helps relieve cramping because of the high salt content and how it might help replenish electrolytes faster and all the other anecdotal schtuff.
I'm a major cramper. I find that hydration starts the night before a match and not just an hour before. I try to drink lots of water the night before and lots of water the morning of the match. I drink a 32 oz bottle of Gatorade before the match, approx. over a 1 hour duration. And then I drink water and Gatorade during the match, to not overdo it on the sugars in the Gatorade. I've found "Gatorlytes" (which is basically a salt pack) at my local GNC and that seems to have helped. I only add that to the Gatorade I drink on the court during a match. In a match, I usually go through both 32 oz of the Gatorade and the water and I refill with just water. Also I eat bananas or Clif bars, too, on change overs. My matches are usually marathon singles matches since I have no means of finishing points early *sigh.*
Anyway, again, I'm only giving you anecdotal evidence. I'd steer clear of the pickle juice, though. But others would say to steer clear of the Gatorade. Some say coconut water. Some say just plain water. Experiment, I guess.
XFactorer
Hall of Fame
Ick! I tried Nuun tablets at a regional tourney since it was free. I personally don't like how it makes the water feel. Taste is fine, but the water feels gelatinously slick (not thick). Personally preference, I guess.
As for the cramping, Coach, what if you never had the Nuun tablets and didn't have any cramps after that? Maybe the summer was at it's peak right after you had the second cramping episode and it was just smooth sailing after that?
"Correlation does not equal causation," as the statisticians say.
Fugazi
Professional
Just to clarify further, I've been a regular cramper for almost 20 years (and I'm only 32...). The Clif Shot Electrolyte powder drink has helped, I believe, because it contains about 2-3 times more sodium and potassium than regular Gatorade, and also has some magnesium. Still, I've had cramps last Sunday in a squash tournament: I first played a brutal 5-game match and then I played... another brutal 5-game match. I drank quite a bit of Clif Shot drink, and I started cramping badly in the fourth and fifth games of my last match. While I can't be absolutely sure, I believe that cramps were caused by 1) unusually difficult exercise and 2) a lack of sodium. I think eating more electrolyte foods (maybe a few pretzels, an electrolyte gel, a banana) would have helped, or maybe mustard/pickle juice. I'll stick to the Clif Shot drink for my next tournament, but I'll also make sure to have more electrolytes from solid foods or more concentrated liquids, especially if I have to play two matches on the same day. Thanks for the interest, I'll try to update the thread next week, during/after my tournament.
LuckyR
Legend
You are mixing up apples and oranges. Gatorade (and other sports drinks) are hydrating products not electrolyte replacers. True they have lytes in them (to help maximize the rehydration) but nowhere near what you need if you are actually suffering from muscle cramps. For that you need way higher doses, like in pickle juice, salt tabs or pretzels, mustard etc.
Fugazi
Professional
Yeah I believe that's what was missing in my last tournament. One day I'll beat those cramps...
austintennis2005
Professional
What about starting to drink pickle juice at the beginning of the match instead of waiting until they come on?
tennis tom
Legend
Bubbies pickles are the best! Pronounced "bubbies" not "boobies" I was informed by the lady working in the supermarket.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
It's not the sodium in the pickle juice but the acetic acid in the brine that stops cramping. It's theorized to be a complex neurophysiologic process involving noxious stimuli feeding back and inhibiting the motor neuron activity in the spinal cord that leads to cramps. Mustard packs will do the same thing as will apple cider vinegar or anything with acetic acid.
Studies have shown the cramps subside far quicker than the body can absorb the sodium and fluids from pickle juice. They've also shown that vinegar water works and salt water doesn't.
So my advice is get a brand with pickles you like. Don't get salt brined pickles (sours, half sours). Need to have the vinegar high on the ingredient list. Sweet or dill won't make a difference. One will add some sugar but it's still all about the vinegar.
Studies have shown the cramps subside far quicker than the body can absorb the sodium and fluids from pickle juice. They've also shown that vinegar water works and salt water doesn't.
So my advice is get a brand with pickles you like. Don't get salt brined pickles (sours, half sours). Need to have the vinegar high on the ingredient list. Sweet or dill won't make a difference. One will add some sugar but it's still all about the vinegar.
Folsom_Stringer_Musa
Professional
Seriously going to give it a try. 
Slowtwitcher
Legend
Quantitative Analysis of the Acetic Acid Content in Substances Used by Athletes for the Possible Prevention and Alleviation of Exercise-Associated Muscle Cramps - PubMed
Marosek, SEH, Antharam, V, and Dowlatshahi, K. Quantitative analysis of the acetic acid content in substances used by athletes for the possible prevention and alleviation of exercise-associated muscle cramps. J Strength Cond Res 34(6): 1539-1546, 2020-Athletes regularly consume commercially...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
You can get gatorade without sugar if you want, but during a high intensity activity, some sugar is not necessarily a bad thing. What do you think those athletes quaffing bananas and gels are doing?
megamind
Legend
+1 on this
sugar is not to be scared of, if it's consumed during the times your body actually needs it
TagUrIt
Hall of Fame
No unfortunately, it’s not the same. I had a personal experience with cramping a few summers ago during a tennis camp. Morning and afternoon sessions. I cramped up one day after a morning session a small sip of pickle juice and my cramps went a way instantly. Not a few minutes later, within a few seconds I was just fine. I keep it in my cooler during the summer tennis season.
got a link to the science behind this?
Slowtwitcher
Legend
had to research it... found this: https://www.healthline.com/health/pickle-juice-for-cramps#use
fascinating... never knew.
when running the marathon, i cramped at 21M, i wonder if pickle juice would have helped. at the time, was doing salt tablets, bananas, gator aid,... didn't seem to help.
this happens to me sometimes, especially when stretching... never tried tonic water... how does it work?
have you done this personally?
links?
if you got some science links backing it... i'll do shots to stop a cramp.... they are excruciating!
movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
A. Tonic water—and the quinine it contains—have been promoted for preventing leg cramps for decades despite the lack of evidence that they are effective. Quinine is FDA-approved only for treating malaria and is sold with a warning against using it to treat leg cramps or muscle pain, because it increases the risk of bleeding and heart rhythm disturbances. Tonic water contains no more than 83 mg of quinine per liter—a much lower concentration than the 500 to 1,000 mg in the therapeutic dose of quinine tablets. Drinking a few ounces of tonic water shouldn't be harmful, but it isn't likely to prevent your leg cramps.
There are a few other things you can do, however. Because cramps are often caused by dehydration, make sure to get enough fluids. But avoid caffeinated and alcoholic beverages, which are dehydrating. (Don't mix gin with that tonic!) Stretching during the day or before bed may also help prevent them.
Once a cramp starts, getting out of bed and standing on the affected leg may abort it. Using ice or heat and gently massaging the affected muscle may provide some relief.
Will tonic water prevent nighttime leg cramps? - Harvard Health
Quinine does not prevent leg cramps and can increase the risk of bleeding and heart rhythm disturbances. ...
www.health.harvard.edu
thx. so the answer is no, that's not a good solution...A. Tonic water—and the quinine it contains—have been promoted for preventing leg cramps for decades despite the lack of evidence that they are effective. Quinine is FDA-approved only for treating malaria and is sold with a warning against using it to treat leg cramps or muscle pain, because it increases the risk of bleeding and heart rhythm disturbances. Tonic water contains no more than 83 mg of quinine per liter—a much lower concentration than the 500 to 1,000 mg in the therapeutic dose of quinine tablets. Drinking a few ounces of tonic water shouldn't be harmful, but it isn't likely to prevent your leg cramps.
There are a few other things you can do, however. Because cramps are often caused by dehydration, make sure to get enough fluids. But avoid caffeinated and alcoholic beverages, which are dehydrating. (Don't mix gin with that tonic!) Stretching during the day or before bed may also help prevent them.
Once a cramp starts, getting out of bed and standing on the affected leg may abort it. Using ice or heat and gently massaging the affected muscle may provide some relief.
Will tonic water prevent nighttime leg cramps? - Harvard Health
Quinine does not prevent leg cramps and can increase the risk of bleeding and heart rhythm disturbances. ...
have you tried the pickle juice thing?
some people swear by it... i haven't tried it myself yet...
but then again i'm not gonna have a jar of pickles at my bedside, and during a cramp, the distance to the kitchen might as well be a mile away.
Slowtwitcher
Legend
For those cramps, stretching works. You just got to stretched the cramping muscle right away and keep the stretch until cramp is gone.
movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
I just take 200 to 400 mg Magnesium daily and no cramps. I have a big bottle of Whole Foods store brand so it’s a cheap solution.
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Slowtwitcher
Legend
You misspelled White Foods
movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
They sell Whole Grain too.
that's like,... work!
looking for an [easy] button
i do stretch the cramp (while squealing like a pig)... still takes a while...
Keendog
Professional
It does work and has worked for me. The study is talking about a tablet of Quinine, about 10 times what you get in a bottle of tonic, and is only specifically looking at night leg cramps for calves. I would get cramps in my fingers and toes, you can't stretch them out or anything. Magnesium made them worse but tonic water did help as low doses of quinine in tonic is a muscle relaxant. These cramps are weird things that weren't due to dehydration. For dehydration you need to hydrate and pickle juice and bananas help that. I find with leg cramps in bed if you sit up and let the blood drain to your legs they go away.
movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
The electrolytes for hydration are sodium, potassium, magnesium and calcium. I use magnesium because it works best for my body. But others use different things or combinations of things. These electrolytes do other things to your body which you may or may not want. I'm having a bit of cramping right now but I worked out for three hours today which is more than I usually do. I usually only workout 90-120 minutes per day.
I run into runners and hikers that use Nuun for hydration and it contains all four in a compact and convenient form as it's easier than carrying a couple of bottles of Gatorade with you.
I have had cramps in my toes, usually at night, and I press them against something so that toes go up at an angle towards the top of my foot. I do this and then grab a mg tablet when the cramp subsides.
Keendog
Professional
i mean to be honest it sounds like you are still getting cramps with mg, which is what I found. Maybe give them a break and try hydrolyte/gastrolyte instead?
movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
I sometimes forget to take them.
It's also what my oncologist added to my chemo cocktail after I complained of cramps during my first infusion.
Slowtwitcher
Legend
A trip to pubmed on this subject might help some people posting on this thread.
tennytive
Hall of Fame
A large jar of polish dills will only have half the volume of juice once the pickles are gone. You can sip that straight or dilute with water to taste. It did work for me when I took it (appropriately) to pickleball before the lock downs. As already mentioned, a little is all you need.
movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
I think that the average person would have difficulty reading Pubmed articles.
This article, though, explains why my oncologist added magnesium supplements to my infusions: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5676816/
and why taking Magnesium supplements prevents cramps for me:
Besides the well-publicized myelosuppressive toxicities, platinum agents are also commonly associated with specific electrolyte deficiencies, in particular magnesium, that in turn directly or indirectly interferes with absorption and/or promotes excretion of calcium, potassium and phosphates as well as global electrolyte deficiencies secondary to a Fanconi-like tubulopathy. Fanconi’s syndrome is a genetic disease of the proximal renal tubules associated with metabolic acidosis, hypokalemia, hypophosphatemia, glucosuria and proteinuria [80]. These electrolyte imbalances may be associated with significant but preventable morbidity and mortality; hence, their prompt recognition and correction is essential to good patient outcomes and provides the raison d’être for this review.
Since magnesium deficiency is so common with platinum administration and since other comorbidities (vomiting, diarrhea, diabetes mellitus, coronary artery disease) or concomitant medications (diuretics, proton pump inhibitors, stool softeners, etc.) frequently encountered in the care of cancer patients exacerbates the risk, it is reasonable to consider whether the preventive prescription of routine oral and IV magnesium supplementation, absent a contraindication, is indicated with all platinum agents, given the cardiac and renal consequences of low Mg+2.
However, with the exception of magnesium, preventative supplementation is not indicated with calcium, potassium, phosphorus and sodium, given the potential to increase the risk of other toxicities (e.g., cardiac arrhythmias with calcium administration). In these cases, prevention consists of early diagnosis and treatment.
The research indicates that this condition can last up to six years after treatment. So it looks like I'm more prone to cramps because of chemo - but I generally notice it a lot more when I am working out a lot, particularly with running and tennis. I often do both on the same day lately. It might also explain the cardiac incident I had several years ago. The cardiologist thought that it was likely due to dehydration as my bloodwork was consistent with it.
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Slowtwitcher
Legend
Obviously I made that comment for above-average people like yourself.
movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
I only have an advanced degree in Computer Science and don't claim medical expertise outside of personal studies on cancer and readings in Pubmed. I usually ask my son if I don't have the technical background to read medical papers. He works in a Genomics lab and many of his coworkers are professors at Harvard Medical School. One of the people in his organization is the Director of the CDC now.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
I would often pour pickle juice on my cramps. But those darn cows and deer kept coming up to me and start to lick me.
What form? Citrate?
Magnesium can also cause so much relaxation that you may need to run at high speed to the toilet in the morning.
movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
An expected side effect of these widely administered platinum-containing regimens is electrolyte disturbances, in particular low magnesium with cisplatin [2]. However, since the signs and symptoms of dyselectrolytemias may be subtle and nonspecific, overlapping with and, therefore, potentially attributed to other comorbid conditions, including the cancer itself, a high index of suspicion is required to make the diagnosis. Besides the potential to adversely affect quality of life, misdiagnosis or delay may also lead to therapy dose reductions, discontinuations or even death, which makes prompt recognition and correction important.
The concentration of magnesium (Mg++) significantly influences serum levels of other electrolytes such as potassium, calcium and phosphate [11], which points out the centrality of its position and role. In terms of this review, a low magnesium state is particularly associated with cisplatin (and to a much lesser extent carboplatin [12]) therapy, more so than any other electrolyte deficiency, affecting 40–90% of patients [13] as opposed to 10% of patients treated with carboplatin [14].
Platinum-induced hypomagnesemia, which has been reported to persist for up to 6 years after cessation of treatment [15], is primarily attributed to renal magnesium wasting and/or reduced intestinal absorption. Additional factors discussed below that can exacerbate magnesium deficiency include drugs, endocrine causes and alcoholism (Table 1).
Electrolyte disorders with platinum-based chemotherapy: mechanisms, manifestations and management
Platinum chemotherapy, particularly cisplatin, is commonly associated with electrolyte imbalances, including hypomagnesemia, hypokalemia, hypophosphatemia, hypocalcemia and hyponatremia. The corpus of literature on these dyselectrolytemias is large; the ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
The bottle just says magnesium.
My oncologist sometimes gave me IV Magnesium - basically when I complained of cramps. I could get cramps without working out - just a side-effect of chemo.
I take Nopalina, Pro-Biotics and Slippery Elm. These are all for GI health and tend to speed things up.
But at least I know why he gave me Magnesium. And I still take it today because it works the best; but at least now I know why it works the best.
