PickleBall and Tennis

sureshs said:
I asked you if the third shot dink needs you to be grooved into a particular paddle. What is your answer?
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All shots, particularly touch shots require adjustment time with a paddle/racket. Typically the soft game ( dinks, 3rd shot drops, resets) require the most adjustment time when changing paddles.

If the question is … can you hit 3rd shot drops with a power paddle, my experience has been yes. But the question “is 3rd shot drops easier with softer/less powerful” paddles requires some context to answer. Legit 3rd shot drops include soft no spin drops (think long dink from baseline) and topspin 3rd shot drops. For me, I haven’t seen a big difference on topspin 3rd shot drops between my power V7 and the softer Prism Flash. I think the softer Prism is easier for the long dink no spin drop, and my guess that would be true for most. I hit more topspin drops than the other … working on improving the other because I think you benefit from having both. That said, in this year I have played many good rec players that never hit topspin on anything.

I also think the spin/control of the carbon face paddles factor in. It’s obvious a touch topspin 3rd shot drop would benefit from a paddle with more spin/grab/control. But I also think carbon face paddles help you deal with opponents spin … opponent topspin with slick paddle surface not the best for control imo.

edit: 3rd 3rd 8-B 1hbh slice
 
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Azure said:
@ByeByePoly likes to answer questions with questions.

BTW why are you troubling an old man?
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He did confirm the sensitivity of the third shot dink to the paddle characteristics. I would say this is probably the highest sensitivity to equipment in the racket sports when you take all factors into account.
 
sureshs said:
He did confirm the sensitivity of the third shot dink to the paddle characteristics. I would say this is probably the highest sensitivity to equipment in the racket sports when you take all factors into account.
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This is beyond my technical understanding.
 
Azure said:
Badminton. Only. I guess thats the only sport that is cheap.
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Almost all desi women here are the same in this respect. They play only badminton. Sometimes they can tap the ball around in table tennis.

For guys, it is usually badminton and cricket. But some also play tennis and they can usually tap the ball around in table tennis.

On Saturday, 3 of us played badminton at a club and the desi woman was better than us two guys so we made her play 1 vs 2 and she still beat us.
 
sureshs said:
Almost all desi women here are the same in this respect. They play only badminton. Sometimes they can tap the ball around in table tennis.

For guys, it is usually badminton and cricket. But some also play tennis and they can usually tap the ball around in table tennis.

On Saturday, 3 of us played badminton at a club and the desi woman was better than us two guys so we made her play 1 vs 2 and she still beat us.
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Not all of us were born rich to play elite sports like you ;)
 
sureshs said:
He did confirm the sensitivity of the third shot dink to the paddle characteristics. I would say this is probably the highest sensitivity to equipment in the racket sports when you take all factors into account.
Click to expand...

The highest sensitivity is racquetball … when a high level player hits his opponent with ball in back of leg because they were crowding/blocking the ball’s path to front wall.

 
Played it for the first time the other day at my local pickleball courts that are always jammed pack full of people. My buddy had invited me and I went out of curiosity. I dumped the first few forehands into the net because I couldn't get any spin LOL. I had to change the stroke path and shorten the swing. By the end of the second game I was getting used to it and we got some points, but we lost both games. I went back today and played singles against another tennis player who had been pickleballing for 2 years. Got bageled 11-0. Think I'm going to stick to tennis. I've invested too many years into the sport to let this wacky blend of table tennis and real tennis mess up my game. But after getting bageled, I can't help but feel like I want to get better. Is this the beginning of the end?
 
Btw, pickleball paddles are overpriced. How can something made with cheap polypropylene honeycomb sandwiched by the thinnest layer(s) of carbon fiber cost more than a tennis racquet? Robbery to the max.
 
PistolPete23 said:
Btw, pickleball paddles are overpriced. How can something made with cheap polypropylene honeycomb sandwiched by the thinnest layer(s) of carbon fiber cost more than a tennis racquet? Robbery to the max.
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yes … beginning of the end … and yes paddle robbery with some of the brands. There are now very good paddles in the $100 - $150 price range. You can get two Friday (name) paddles for $100 ($50 each), and very good quality.
 
ballmachineguy said:
I so wanna go play pball with a pizza peel (cut to size of course) and beat someone with a $200+ paddle.

https://imgur.com/a/DiKadFK
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That looks like one of my paddles :p

gospartus.com

Apollo

Now featuring our updated logo with the same amazing performance as before The world's FIRST widebody using a premium 100% Aramid fiber Industry leading combination of spin, swingweight and twistweight The Apollo is the world's FIRST widebody paddle that uses a premium 100% Aramid fiber as its...
gospartus.com gospartus.com
 
ByeByePoly said:
yes … beginning of the end … and yes paddle robbery with some of the brands. There are now very good paddles in the $100 - $150 price range. You can get two Friday (name) paddles for $100 ($50 each), and very good quality.
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Hey Piles have you heard about the new Titanium paddles? It seems they are made of polyester fibers dyed with a titanium paint, which MAY contain very small amounts of Titanium.

There was a big uproar when a tennis manufacturer claimed the use of Titanium. I see no outrage here.

Are Pickles so gullible?
 
sureshs said:
Hey Piles have you heard about the new Titanium paddles? It seems they are made of polyester fibers dyed with a titanium paint, which MAY contain very small amounts of Titanium.

There was a big uproar when a tennis manufacturer claimed the use of Titanium. I see no outrage here.

Are Pickles so gullible?
Click to expand...

you are so far behind … and I’m not even talking about that Z5
 
PistolPete23 said:
Btw, pickleball paddles are overpriced. How can something made with cheap polypropylene honeycomb sandwiched by the thinnest layer(s) of carbon fiber cost more than a tennis racquet? Robbery to the max.
Click to expand...
This guy sells $32 paddles for $150 but there are a lot of hidden costs.
 
ByeByePoly said:
yes … beginning of the end … and yes paddle robbery with some of the brands. There are now very good paddles in the $100 - $150 price range. You can get two Friday (name) paddles for $100 ($50 each), and very good quality.
Click to expand...

I got a Friday paddle. It may be my last paddle. Played today, paired with a pretty "good" player and we almost won the game against some seasoned players. I think I much prefer tennis. It seems in recreational pickleball, you can have bad technique (no unit turn, only arm movement) and still get the ball over the net consistently. If you have bad technique but good reflexes, you can be considered a good player because so much happens up front, at least in doubles. Tennis rewards good technique and that's part of why I love it so much. And I like to bash from the baseline. I can't gel with a sport where it's hard to hit baseline winners.
 
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PistolPete23 said:
I got a Friday paddle. It may be my last paddle. Played today, paired with a pretty "good" player and we almost won the game against some seasoned players. I think I much prefer tennis. It seems in recreational pickleball, you can have bad technique (no unit turn, only arm movement) and still get the ball over the net consistently. If you have bad technique but good reflexes, you can be considered a good player because so much happens up front, at least in doubles. Tennis rewards good technique and that's part of why I love it so much. And I like to bash from the baseline. I can't gel with a sport where it's hard to hit baseline winners.
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Edit: none, or little body rotation at the kitchen IS good pickleball technique. They flipped the script, plot twist … arming bad in tennis, required in good pickleball at kitchen because there is no time. Stupid, stupid, stupid game … can’t wait to play tomorrow, and three times a week. :p


You just bought the Friday paddle? If so, and you do get hooked on pickleball, tag me later and I can point you to other paddle considerations.

You pretty much nailed it … you can play a very high level of pickleball doubles with virtually no strokes as we know them in tennis. Pickleball at the kitchen is mainly played chest to the net without or minimal body rotation. Even a volley from the kitchen is an arming hit. Tennis strokes cross over to pickleball singles … but the vast majority of rec pickleball players only play doubles.

I am only playing pickleball because 66 year old pickleball doubles is WAY more fun than 66 year old tennis doubles. Also, I didn’t really want to watch my tennis degrade into something I don’t recognize after so many years of competitive tennis. Giving up tennis doubles was easy compared to giving up tennis singles … totally a singles player at heart. I was still playing good level tennis singles at 55.

That thing called firefight at the kitchen … when you eventually get good at that it is a blast. If you don’t like that, pickleball isn’t for you.
 
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ByeByePoly said:
Edit: none, or little body rotation at the kitchen IS good pickleball technique. They flipped the script, plot twist … arming bad in tennis, required in good pickleball at kitchen because there is no time. Stupid, stupid, stupid game … can’t wait to play tomorrow, and three times a week. :p


You just bought the Friday paddle? If so, and you do get hooked on pickleball, tag me later and I can point you to other paddle considerations.

You pretty much nailed it … you can play a very high level of pickleball doubles with virtually no strokes as we know them in tennis. Pickleball at the kitchen is mainly played chest to the net without or minimal body rotation. Even a volley from the kitchen is an arming hit. Tennis strokes cross over to pickleball singles … but the vast majority of rec pickleball players only play doubles.

I am only playing pickleball because 66 year old pickleball doubles is WAY more fun than 66 year old tennis doubles. Also, I didn’t really want to watch my tennis degrade into something I don’t recognize after so many years of competitive tennis. Giving up tennis doubles was easy compared to giving up tennis singles … totally a singles player at heart. I was still playing good level tennis singles at 55.

That thing called firefight at the kitchen … when you eventually get good at that it is a blast. If you don’t like that, pickleball isn’t for you.
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If I continue to play, I think I would enjoy singles more. But yeah, I’m not 40 yet, and there’s still some life in these legs to enjoy tennis for another few years. There was one point today though that was pretty satisfying. Dude hit a skidding under spin serve at a sharp angle. They thought I wouldn’t be able to reach it, but I did a split step and got my paddle under the ball, hit a slice return winner that clipped the line. Highlight of today.
 
PistolPete23 said:
If I continue to play, I think I would enjoy singles more. But yeah, I’m not 40 yet, and there’s still some life in these legs to enjoy tennis for another few years. There was one point today though that was pretty satisfying. Dude hit a skidding under spin serve at a sharp angle. They thought I wouldn’t be able to reach it, but I did a split step and got my paddle under the ball, hit a slice return winner that clipped the line. Highlight of today.
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I never get to play singles Pickleball even though I would love to. The rec center courts here are so full that only doubles is played.
 
Purestriker said:
What is a bad technique?
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I don’t think there is really bad technique, and that’s why it’s so popular. Low skill barrier to entry. There’s acceptable technique and then there’s better technique. The better footwork technique comes from folks with a tennis background, especially split stepping. You can tell the non-tennis folks never do it. They’re flat footed until they see the ball coming over the net.
 
My second time playing, I had already learned to make my stroke more compact, and modify the swing path for the lack of spin potential off the hitting surface, but all the elements of footwork I have from tennis were unchanged - stuff like bending the knees instead of the back for low balls, split stepping, etc. A girl asked me how long I've been playing; apparently she had been playing for several years. I said it was my second time; she seemed quite taken aback LOL.
 
PistolPete23 said:
My second time playing, I had already learned to make my stroke more compact, and modify the swing path for the lack of spin potential off the hitting surface, but all the elements of footwork I have from tennis were unchanged - stuff like bending the knees instead of the back for low balls, split stepping, etc. A girl asked me how long I've been playing; apparently she had been playing for several years. I said it was my second time; she seemed quite taken aback LOL.
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The time for a 3.5 tennis player to become a 3.5 Pickleball player is about 30 minutes.
 
sureshs said:
Hey Piles have you heard about the new Titanium paddles? It seems they are made of polyester fibers dyed with a titanium paint, which MAY contain very small amounts of Titanium.

There was a big uproar when a tennis manufacturer claimed the use of Titanium. I see no outrage here.

Are Pickles so gullible?
Click to expand...
I used Ti tennis rackets back in the 90s. Don't recall any uproar when Head and others incorporated Ti into their carbon / graphite frames. Since Ti is very expensive, only a small was used. I believe the same was true for skis, golf clubs, badminton rackets that incorporated Ti.

Note that only a small amt of Ti was actually needed to make a tennis racket light and powerful. It was also used to adjust other characteristics such as flex.

Before the use Ti was common, Boron was used (mid / late 80s) in tennis & badminton rackets, golf clubs, etc. No uproar there either
 
SystemicAnomaly said:
I used Ti tennis rackets back in the 90s. Don't recall any uproar when Head and others incorporated Ti into their carbon / graphite frames. Since Ti is very expensive, only a small was used. I believe the same was true for skis, golf clubs, badminton rackets that incorporated Ti.

Note that only a small amt of Ti was actually needed to make a tennis racket light and powerful. It was also used to adjust other characteristics such as flex.

Before the use Ti was common, Boron was used (mid / late 80s) in tennis & badminton rackets, golf clubs, etc. No uproar there either
Click to expand...
The Ti in the racquets wasn’t functional at all. It wasn’t even metallic Ti. It was TiO2, a ceramic, and the same stuff they put in toothpaste. Ti is actually more dense (heavier) than carbon fiber. All marketing BS.
 
PistolPete23 said:
The Ti in the racquets wasn’t functional at all. It wasn’t even metallic Ti. It was TiO2, a ceramic, and the same stuff they put in toothpaste. Ti is actually more dense (heavier) than carbon fiber. All marketing BS.
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Not taking your word on this. Any credible sources to back up your claim? It appears that Ti is still used in high-end golf clubs, skis, bicycles, helmets and other sporting equipment.

Had heard that Ti dioxide was used on tennis courts. Not clear that it was ever used in tennis racquets. A number of sources indicated that Ti alloys were used in racquets.

Note that the Ti used in sporting equipment is considered very strong & lightweight. Note that the graphite / carbon used in tennis racquets prior to the 1990s was not quite the same as the newer carbon fibers used more recently. As carbon fiber technology has improved over the past several decades, the need for Ti, Boron, W (tungsten) & other exotic materials has decreased.

Graphene technology may have replaced or reduced the need for Ti alloys in some products

Golf Clubheads: Material Differences

www.hirekogolf.com www.hirekogolf.com
titek.co.uk

Titanium in Sport - Titek

Titanium is one of the most abundant metals that is found in the earth’s crust. It’s also easy to find on the periodic table, amongst the transition metals with the atomic symbol “Ti”. There are many different properties of Titanium that make it so desirable by many industries, with the main one...
titek.co.uk titek.co.uk
 
SystemicAnomaly said:
Not taking your word on this. Any credible sources to back up your claim? It appears that Ti is still used in high-end golf clubs, skis, bicycles, helmets and other sporting equipment.

Had heard that Ti dioxide was used on tennis courts. Not clear that it was ever used in tennis racquets. A number of sources indicated that Ti alloys were used in racquets.

Note that the Ti used in sporting equipment is considered very strong & lightweight. Note that the graphite / carbon used in tennis racquets prior to the 1990s was not quite the same as the newer carbon fibers used more recently. As carbon fiber technology has improved over the past several decades, the need for Ti, Boron, W (tungsten) & other exotic materials has decreased.

Graphene technology may have replaced or reduced the need for Ti alloys in some products

Golf Clubheads: Material Differences

www.hirekogolf.com www.hirekogolf.com
titek.co.uk

Titanium in Sport - Titek

Titanium is one of the most abundant metals that is found in the earth’s crust. It’s also easy to find on the periodic table, amongst the transition metals with the atomic symbol “Ti”. There are many different properties of Titanium that make it so desirable by many industries, with the main one...
titek.co.uk titek.co.uk
Click to expand...
The Ti fad happened in the late 90s. Carbon fiber composites were already advanced by then. The density of Ti is about 4.5 g/cm^3, and that of carbon fiber composite is about 1.5 g/cm^3. It was never more dense than Ti even considering variations due to fiber configuration (woven vs unidirectional), fiber grade, and choice of matrix resin. Furthermore, metallic Titanium doesn’t bond well to the resin in a composite. You’ll have to create the Ti fiber and do some expensive surface treatment to make it structurally part of the racquet. I’m willing to bet my house that most of the Ti Head racquets in the late 90s did not have Ti in the structural layup. A lot of them had a carbon fiber decal that showed silver-colored fibers woven in, purportedly Ti. If it was Ti, it was just cosmetic. Another forum member knew somebody who chopped up a Ti Radical and didn’t find any Ti, except for that silly decal in the throat. The reference to TiO2 is tongue-in-cheek because you can find it commonly in paint, especially primer, which all racquets that are painted have.
 
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SystemicAnomaly said:
I used Ti tennis rackets back in the 90s. Don't recall any uproar when Head and others incorporated Ti into their carbon / graphite frames. Since Ti is very expensive, only a small was used. I believe the same was true for skis, golf clubs, badminton rackets that incorporated Ti.

Note that only a small amt of Ti was actually needed to make a tennis racket light and powerful. It was also used to adjust other characteristics such as flex.

Before the use Ti was common, Boron was used (mid / late 80s) in tennis & badminton rackets, golf clubs, etc. No uproar there either
Click to expand...
Sorry, the lawsuit was about the claimed use of Tungsten, not Titanium.

Babolat Paying Out to Customers after Lawsuit

I've only just seen this and haven't been able to find a related thread (which surprises me given the topic). Babolat have agreed to settle two class action lawsuits to do with misrepresentation. If you bought a Babolat racket in the US that was endorsed by a player or one featuring GT you...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com tt.tennis-warehouse.com
 
sureshs said:
Hehe Liquidmetal, the Caltech-invented special material which was endowed with great qualities
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They do have great qualities. It just doesn't make sense to use in a tennis racquet, and Head certainly wasn't doing it in a way that made a difference. I know that for a fact, but it's another story for another day. I spent 7 years in grad school researching and designing "Liquidmetal" (aka bulk metallic glass) alloys :)

Maybe there's an application for pickleball paddles though, haha.
 
PistolPete23 said:
They do have great qualities. It just doesn't make sense to use in a tennis racquet, and Head certainly wasn't doing it in a way that made a difference. I know that for a fact, but it's another story for another day. I spent 7 years in grad school researching and designing "Liquidmetal" (aka bulk metallic glass) alloys :)

Maybe there's an application for pickleball paddles though, haha.
Click to expand...
Yes it is not for this application except for marketing
 
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