Pickleball is spreading

JW10S

Hall of Fame
From what I've seen the only level where Pickleball is converting tennis players is at the competitive/pro level. Tennis players who couldn't make it as a pro can play Pickleball and almost instantly be a high ranked player. As for the average Pickleball player I doubt many had played much tennis. I see players who hold the paddle with it facing down and they just bump the ball across the net. I see some really funky grips and technique. It's an easy sport to pick up so people who never really played a sport are being drawn to it.
 

joe sch

Legend
From what I've seen the only level where Pickleball is converting tennis players is at the competitive/pro level. Tennis players who couldn't make it as a pro can play Pickleball and almost instantly be a high ranked player. As for the average Pickleball player I doubt many had played much tennis. I see players who hold the paddle with it facing down and they just bump the ball across the net. I see some really funky grips and technique. It's an easy sport to pick up so people who never really played a sport are being drawn to it.
Its more difficult and less effective to switch grips, not use the handshake conti like grip, with pickleball rackets since the handle is smaller and not as round. I have seen most of the sizes from 3 5/8 to 4 1/4 and very difficult to find models that exceed that range. I suspect part of this is based on pb bats not having strings so changing the ball to surface impact angle does not have much diff effect on the defection trajectory nor spin rpms.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Its more difficult and less effective to switch grips, not use the handshake conti like grip, with pickleball rackets since the handle is smaller and not as round. I have seen most of the sizes from 3 5/8 to 4 1/4 and very difficult to find models that exceed that range. I suspect part of this is based on pb bats not having strings so changing the ball to surface impact angle does not have much diff effect on the defection trajectory nor spin rpms.
I could not even find any size other than a 3 online
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
From what I've seen the only level where Pickleball is converting tennis players is at the competitive/pro level. Tennis players who couldn't make it as a pro can play Pickleball and almost instantly be a high ranked player. As for the average Pickleball player I doubt many had played much tennis. I see players who hold the paddle with it facing down and they just bump the ball across the net. I see some really funky grips and technique. It's an easy sport to pick up so people who never really played a sport are being drawn to it.
It’s fun to play not much fun to watch. I play because it’s a way to socialize. It seems to make people happy and I’ve met some decent people playing pickle. I still love tennis but lately have been drawn to pickle because I found I was bored doing solo drills in tennis.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Its more difficult and less effective to switch grips, not use the handshake conti like grip, with pickleball rackets since the handle is smaller and not as round. I have seen most of the sizes from 3 5/8 to 4 1/4 and very difficult to find models that exceed that range. I suspect part of this is based on pb bats not having strings so changing the ball to surface impact angle does not have much diff effect on the defection trajectory nor spin rpms.
I can't imagine that technology makes a big difference in a sport with a whiffle ball and solid paddle. And there are like 3 strokes to learn.
 

tennytive

Professional
I can't imagine that technology makes a big difference in a sport with a whiffle ball and solid paddle. And there are like 3 strokes to learn.
That's why it has such high appeal to non athletic people. Good players know how to slice and roll the ball and side spin on the serve is often seen too. But your point is taken.
 

mctennis

Legend
I guess as long as it ( pickleball) gets people out from being in front of a tv it is at least some exercise. I just am not a big fan of the horrible noise the paddles make. Better some exercise than none at all.
 

derick232

Rookie
I absolutely understand where the animosity towards pickleball is coming from, I hate seeing public tennis courts being painted over with pickleball lines or even worse having permanent nets put in making the tennis court unusable.

That being said, it is a lot of fun at a "high" level, I say "high" level because the top of pickleball is nowhere close to the top of tennis in terms of athleticism and skill. For me, the joy of playing comes from the fact that I'm not playing competitively (leagues and tournaments) like in tennis and it can still be a decent workout. It allows me to just have fun instead of getting upset at my mistakes like I do in tennis. When I play tennis, I'm always trying to improve, in pickleball, I'm usually the best player there and I don't have the same drive to play competitively so it takes a lot of the pressure off. I also think I would look ridiculous if I went out and practiced pickleball the same way I do tennis. It's definitely a love hate relationship with more hate than love.
 

kaninfaan

Rookie
Part of the Idiocracy is laziness and "on-demand"-gratification so the easier something is, the better.
All the idiots can silently agree on never talking about it so the illusion is enjoyed to the full.
This mechanism has been keeping golf going for more than a century.
It is now being applied to cornholing, padel, pickleball etc.
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
Part of the Idiocracy is laziness and "on-demand"-gratification so the easier something is, the better.
All the idiots can silently agree on never talking about it so the illusion is enjoyed to the full.
This mechanism has been keeping golf going for more than a century.
It is now being applied to cornholing, padel, pickleball etc.
I was with you for your first 2 sentences, but you lost me with golf.

Are you saying golf is easy and has instant gratification? If so, unless you yourself are a high level golfer....l cannot agree. Golf is a deceptively difficult and frustrating sport to do well.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Part of the Idiocracy is laziness and "on-demand"-gratification so the easier something is, the better.
All the idiots can silently agree on never talking about it so the illusion is enjoyed to the full.
This mechanism has been keeping golf going for more than a century.
It is now being applied to cornholing, padel, pickleball etc.
Golf is easy and "on-demand gratification"? You clearly have never golfed. Trying to put a tiny ball into a tiny hole 400 yards away in 4 strokes with implements ill suited for the task, is perhaps one of the most difficult endeavours in sport.

Recall a poll of many top athletes from multiple sports about what is the most difficult thing to do in sport. Number 1 was hitting a 100 mph fastball. Number 2 was golf. If the best athletes find it hard, then it can hardly be grouped in with corn hole and pickle ball.
 

FloridaAG

Professional
To each their own but the noise is horrible and I also dislike their take-over attempts of tennis courts.

At least here in Key West, they were also horrible about following any of the pandemic guidelines - looked like a coronavirus cesspool
 

Frankc

Professional
To each their own but the noise is horrible and I also dislike their take-over attempts of tennis courts.

At least here in Key West, they were also horrible about following any of the pandemic guidelines - looked like a coronavirus cesspool
Yep, here also... one city park painted pb lines in bright lines on two new courts. The "nonreservation of courts regs" are skirted as they assemble in a large group, set up their courts, and sorta play until done. Additionally, they have placed temp tape lines on the adjacent tennis courts. This tape is slippery and ordinary tape. They leave them up for days on end. No regard for safety issues or the obvious impairment of the court for tennis.
Also, the same issue during early pandemic - not a mask to be seen on contestants or those mingling and waiting( counted 52 participants once) regardless of signs and presence of tennis players...
 

djNEiGht

Hall of Fame
they have placed temp tape lines on the other city courts. This tape is slippery and ordinary tape. They leave them up for days on end. No regard for safety issues or the obvious impairment of the court for tennis.
that blows...

One of the local places has 10 tennis courts with two of them with PB lines painted. There was a big tournament where they ended up placing tape on a couple other courts. The tape was removed after the event. Some residue was on the court but wore off in a couple days
 
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FloridaAG

Professional
To be fair, after a couple years of territory fights between tennis and pickle ball players, they built a separate complex for them next to one of the sets of courts here. Can still here the noise but there is less mingling, less balls interrupting and less fighting over space
 

Alexrb

Semi-Pro
Golf is easy and "on-demand gratification"? You clearly have never golfed. Trying to put a tiny ball into a tiny hole 400 yards away in 4 strokes with implements ill suited for the task, is perhaps one of the most difficult endeavours in sport.

Recall a poll of many top athletes from multiple sports about what is the most difficult thing to do in sport. Number 1 was hitting a 100 mph fastball. Number 2 was golf. If the best athletes find it hard, then it can hardly be grouped in with corn hole and pickle ball.
Golf is hard, but would you call it needing much athleticism? I feel like I can slam 5 beers and still be a similar level to what I was before I did so.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Golf is hard, but would you call it needing much athleticism? I feel like I can slam 5 beers and still be a similar level to what I was before I did so.
Depends on what you consider athleticism. Golf doesn't require foot speed or endurance but I don't think those things qualify as "athleticism". The most uncoordinated person could become a runner. But most of us define athletes as people with great coordination to go with top notch speed and fitness. Golf requires great coordination and it requires upper body speed. Those are athlete's traits.

IF you were organizing a softball team would you take the scratch golfer or a guy whose only sport has been running and working out at the gym?

And if you can play high level golf after 5 beers, I'd be really impressed. Anyone can play terrible golf just like anyone can play terrible tennis. Alcohol can only do so much to worsen a terrible golf game.
 

joe sch

Legend
Depends on what you consider athleticism. Golf doesn't require foot speed or endurance but I don't think those things qualify as "athleticism". The most uncoordinated person could become a runner. But most of us define athletes as people with great coordination to go with top notch speed and fitness. Golf requires great coordination and it requires upper body speed. Those are athlete's traits.

IF you were organizing a softball team would you take the scratch golfer or a guy whose only sport has been running and working out at the gym?

And if you can play high level golf after 5 beers, I'd be really impressed. Anyone can play terrible golf just like anyone can play terrible tennis. Alcohol can only do so much to worsen a terrible golf game.
An exception but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Daly_(golfer)#Alcohol
 

JW10S

Hall of Fame
that blows...

One of the local places has 10 tennis courts with two of them with PB lines painted. There was a big tournament where they ended up placing tape on a couple other courts. The tape was removed after the event. Some residue was on the court but wore off in a couple days
I recently played on some tennis courts that on certain days are used for pickleball. They marked the lines with blue painters tape and apparently when they wear down the don't replace them, they just add another layer of tape. Some lines had at least 3 layers on them. If the tennis ball hit the tape it would effect the bounce and sometime you could feel your foot catching on the raised line. So we took a few minutes and just pulled up all the tape (it was a 'tennis day' after all). I'm sure when the PBers showed up the next day they complained mightily about 'those damn tennis players'...
 
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BAP

New User
Pickle ball lessons are actually a thing? That's almost like someone getting mini golf lessons instead of real golf lessons.

If you have actually watched pickle ball, you would realize what a joke lessons must be.
Well said!
 

speedysteve

Legend
Heard a report about Pickleball in Sweden on Swedish radio the other day.
Jonas Svensson (80/90's tennis pro esp doubles) was banging on about it

I saw the first signs of it at some cheap to rent hardcourts in Christchurch (UK). Little movement from the participants and the noise..
I can only imagine what all 10 courts going at it would be like.
I reckon the local house residents with gardens backing on to the courts night say.
Much more intrusive noise then regular tennis, unless Sharapova and Sabalenka were at it hammer and tongs :)
 

Frankc

Professional
I might be wrong, but here we are seeing big PB groups organize and "push" through adding lines to all tennis courts in a public park complex. One organizer was puzzled why bright yellow PB lines would impair the tennis experience... Hmmm...

I have noticed a sort of pride in the great noise on the part of a few PBs - and, I am sure, that making noise is positive to some as that makes it an active experience...
 

Joe Garfield

Semi-Pro
I've been tolerant of the whole thing so far, but lately pickleball players have been using tennis courts and practice walls. There are only 4-5 practice walls in the city so that bugs me a bit.
 

kingcheetah

Hall of Fame
I'm increasingly annoyed with pickleball-- they use the basketball gym at our facility in the winter, and are increasingly hijacking public tennis courts. The entitlement was absurd, a couple tried to argue with me over using courts during a high school tennis match I was coaching, when we had the facility rented for the season. They've also basically taken over a quickstart court that a local nonprofit spent a ton of effort fundraising to build. If pickleball players want to expand, great, but it shouldn't be at the expense of tennis courts, and especially not grassroots efforts like specific quickstart courts.
 

BlueB

Legend
They are also very aggressive in their efforts. Other day I was surfing the Google maps and discovered another 6 tennis courts relatively near me. On closer look, two have pickle lines painted too. However, someone has tagged the entire thing "pickleball courts".
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
It is a lost cause with older people. My Nextdoor has a local Pickle group and every other day, an older person posts asking to play Pickle. No such interest in the Tennis group which also exists. I mean, if you are an older adult who has not played tennis ever due to work and financial pressure, and now retired, why would you choose to learn a harder sport which requires costlier equipment, periodic stringing, expensive lessons which hardly teach anything, and then be humiliated by snotty folks as you flail balls as a beginner and find no one to play with? It is a no-brainer for such a person to choose Pickle. Sorry folks. Tennis is a lifelong sport only for those who started at a maximum age of 45 or less.
 

treo

Semi-Pro
I attended a pro/amateur pickleball tournament this weekend in Atlanta and it was almost as well presented as the Atlanta Tennis Open. Over 1100 players. With the ability to have 4 pickleball courts on 1 tennis court it can be quite profitable for the promoters I guess. I am entered into the next local tournament and will see what the player experience is like.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
It is a lost cause with older people. My Nextdoor has a local Pickle group and every other day, an older person posts asking to play Pickle. No such interest in the Tennis group which also exists. I mean, if you are an older adult who has not played tennis ever due to work and financial pressure, and now retired, why would you choose to learn a harder sport which requires costlier equipment, periodic stringing, expensive lessons which hardly teach anything, and then be humiliated by snotty folks as you flail balls as a beginner and find no one to play with? It is a no-brainer for such a person to choose Pickle. Sorry folks. Tennis is a lifelong sport only for those who started at a maximum age of 45 or less.
So pickleball is the Lawn Bowling and shuffleboard of the new millenium?

Tennis and golf are always best started early but can be played into senior years. There is no sport that is best started late, but there are a few where better late than never applies: Pickleball, shuffleboard, lawn bowling, ballroom and square dancing, bocce, fishing, and probably a few others.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.


When i finally pick up the paddle, I'm gonna play PB Julian style with a Rye and Coke in one hand at all times.

Darts, Bowling, First Base in Slow Pitch. All should be played with a bevvie in one hand.
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
Played tennis last night. Drove home past a park with 2 tennis courts l used to play on all the time. I know they have been taken over, with the blessings of the city for the pickleballers to reserve the courts. So basically, they are now PB courts.

Driving by last night, 4 PB nets on the 2 courts, 4 peeps on each court, and AT LEAST 10-15 people on the sidelines socializing and l guess waiting to rotate in.

That, fellow tennis players, is the inevitable. PB is not only here to stay, not a fad, but a wave that by sheer numbers will force their ownership on any tennis courts they target.

I've seen the future, and the future is now.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Played tennis last night. Drove home past a park with 2 tennis courts l used to play on all the time. I know they have been taken over, with the blessings of the city for the pickleballers to reserve the courts. So basically, they are now PB courts.

Driving by last night, 4 PB nets on the 2 courts, 4 peeps on each court, and AT LEAST 10-15 people on the sidelines socializing and l guess waiting to rotate in.

That, fellow tennis players, is the inevitable. PB is not only here to stay, not a fad, but a wave that by sheer numbers will force their ownership on any tennis courts they target.

I've seen the future, and the future is now.
Let us see what happens with Pickleball when people start going back to in-office work in large numbers and find other outdoor activities and travel fully open to them.

The tennis industry is also fearful whether the growth of tennis in the past year will be sustained.
 

jered

Rookie
We finally did it. Caved to my wife’s friend and joined their pickle ball practice yesterday. They had an instructor and everything. It was enjoyable the way I find ping pong enjoyable. I can see why older folks love it. It was perfect since I’d wrecked my knees the night before playing volleyball and wasn’t up for tennis.

What brought it down was the instructor had a huge chip on her shoulder over my wife and I being tennis players. She rode us over how we were playing ”tennis style” rather than “proper” pickle ball. At one point she said if we’re going to play like tennis players then we should just go over to the tennis courts.

What really ticked her off though was that we came into this group and won every practice match against their players using our “tennis style” except for one against their best players. This is at 4.5 level. I think we would have won that one but we gave up points due to the rules being complex and hard to remember.

All the other players were lovely and friendly though. Very encouraging. Invited us to beers afterward. That instructor hated us though. :-D
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
What, more specifically, is tennis style vs PB style? If l played badminton or ping pong, is THAT a style too?

Edit- and why would it matter?
 

jered

Rookie
Pickle ball is about dinking, continental grip, and underhand bowling style swings apparently.

She didn’t like that I was using a semi-western grip and hitting a full tennis stroke from back. My wife and I played a power / spin game and they call that being a basher and it’s apparently looked down on versus dinking. However, our basher style won us most games. Probably matters the same way people hate on junk ballers and pushers in tennis.

I think she resented that we were able to come in and immediately play at a high level with unorthodox technique for pickle ball.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
The Sunriver resort outside of Bend, Oregon was named one of the top 50 tennis destinations in the world in 2012. I used to play tournaments there and in Bend almost every summer for a couple decades. Sadly, the number of annual tennis tournaments in the area has dwindled down from about a half dozen to one - and that one Sunriver tournament has been canceled in both 2020 and 2021 because of the pandemic. Fortunately, I heard that they will be having their annual tennis team event in September... but in the announcement, they noted that all of the tennis courts at "Tennis Hill" in the resort are being converted to pickleball courts in June.

I think that the resort still has around 18 to 20 tennis courts (depending on whether you count the private club) and will have at least 21 pickleball courts by July. This has been a trend in the area for a few years with tennis fading and Bend becoming a top spot for pickleball in the summers. To me this is depressing and it makes me want to relocate to an area of the US where tennis is still thriving.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
We finally did it. Caved to my wife’s friend and joined their pickle ball practice yesterday. They had an instructor and everything. It was enjoyable the way I find ping pong enjoyable. I can see why older folks love it. It was perfect since I’d wrecked my knees the night before playing volleyball and wasn’t up for tennis.

What brought it down was the instructor had a huge chip on her shoulder over my wife and I being tennis players. She rode us over how we were playing ”tennis style” rather than “proper” pickle ball. At one point she said if we’re going to play like tennis players then we should just go over to the tennis courts.

What really ticked her off though was that we came into this group and won every practice match against their players using our “tennis style” except for one against their best players. This is at 4.5 level. I think we would have won that one but we gave up points due to the rules being complex and hard to remember.

All the other players were lovely and friendly though. Very encouraging. Invited us to beers afterward. That instructor hated us though. :-D
So you were playing pickleball for the first time and were immediately playing and winning at their 4.5 level? I believe it.

In fact, many of the top pickleball professionals in the world are former 4.5 and 5.0 tennis players that dropped into the sport in their 30s. Our former teaching pro at our club is one of them. She was a good tennis player - a 5.0 that won a state doubles title in high school, but was often injured and had numerous knee, back, and shoulder surgeries. Then in her mid-30s, she started playing pickleball. After less than a year of starting, she won numerous "professional" pickleball titles, including the US Open, and got ranked inside the top 10 in the world. Her face is now used in several commercials for pickleball equipment. She was going nowhere as a tennis teacher, so I'm glad for her success... but...

It would be impossible for a 4.5 pickleball player to play tennis for the first time and immediately be able to play at a 4.5 tennis level. I doubt such a player would even be able to win any points, much less games or matches.

To me, this is exactly why I can't take pickleball seriously. It's a sport for old worn out people and non-athletes that don't want to move. The comparison to shuffleboard is not far off. The only thing that sucks is that their game is encroaching on tennis and taking over a lot of the courts. We've already lost two of our seven tennis courts at my club now.
 

Soul_Evisceration

Hall of Fame
Really should be relegated to seniors complexes and gated communities. For the under 60 crowd there's more than enough racket sports to choose from that we didn't need one more (that is even less exercise). Badminton, Tennis, Squash, Racquetball, Table tennis all exist already. I think its just a market scam for racquet manufacturers to dig into the boomers wallets.
100% in agreement. The fact that most of the Outdoor Public Tennis Courts has those additional ridiculous Pickleball lines, it ruins the experience for me. Couldn't they just play the sport with the standard double service lines? I am outraged that this BS Sport exists.
 

jered

Rookie
So you were playing pickleball for the first time and were immediately playing and winning at their 4.5 level? I believe it.

In fact, many of the top pickleball professionals in the world are former 4.5 and 5.0 tennis players that dropped into the sport in their 30s. Our former teaching pro at our club is one of them. She was a good tennis player - a 5.0 that won a state doubles title in high school, but was often injured and had numerous knee, back, and shoulder surgeries. Then in her mid-30s, she started playing pickleball. After less than a year of starting, she won numerous "professional" pickleball titles, including the US Open, and got ranked inside the top 10 in the world. Her face is now used in several commercials for pickleball equipment. She was going nowhere as a tennis teacher, so I'm glad for her success... but...

It would be impossible for a 4.5 pickleball player to play tennis for the first time and immediately be able to play at a 4.5 tennis level. I doubt such a player would even be able to win any points, much less games or matches.

To me, this is exactly why I can't take pickleball seriously. It's a sport for old worn out people and non-athletes that don't want to move. The comparison to shuffleboard is not far off. The only thing that sucks is that their game is encroaching on tennis and taking over a lot of the courts. We've already lost two of our seven tennis courts at my club now.
Yeah, to be honest, it was more fun than I thought it would be. When I’m much older, I can see it being a regular activity. I do resent that they encroach on tennis courts.

All the players except the instructor were very nice. We may also have benefitted from being surprisingly good for beginners. We got a bunch of messages today asking us to play in tournaments.
 

atatu

Legend
Played tennis last night. Drove home past a park with 2 tennis courts l used to play on all the time. I know they have been taken over, with the blessings of the city for the pickleballers to reserve the courts. So basically, they are now PB courts.

Driving by last night, 4 PB nets on the 2 courts, 4 peeps on each court, and AT LEAST 10-15 people on the sidelines socializing and l guess waiting to rotate in.

That, fellow tennis players, is the inevitable. PB is not only here to stay, not a fad, but a wave that by sheer numbers will force their ownership on any tennis courts they target.

I've seen the future, and the future is now.
This reminds me of this scene from Independence Day

 
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