Pickleball Nation

5sets

Semi-Pro
Okay, so we already have had a discussion on pickleball lines being painted across tennis courts across the country, but does pickleball play trump tennis on tennis courts?

Enough is enough. Tennis courts were built for tennis. I already have to kick kids off who are skateboarding and biking on park courts, now I have to wait for old geezers to finish their hour pickleball game before I can catch a hit?

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Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
I understand the economics of a tennis facility adding pickleball courts, I see even the USRSA (US Racquet Stringers Assoc), which changed it's magazine to Tennis Industry, is including more content and ads for pickleball. Um...do they not know that THERE ARE NO STRINGS IN A PICKLEBALL PADDLE????????

Again, from an economic point of view, tennis facilities and organizations like USRSA are trying to stay relevant, but for me they are veering in a different direction and I'm not sure a continued subscription to USRSA is aligned with my interests.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Seems to be a very USA thing. I've note seen much pickleball on tennis courts outside of America. Hoping it will never catch on here in Canada.
Our tennis club had a recent referendum on pickleball and the overwhelming majority were against introducing it. Thank goodness. Between the noise and the goofy lines, it would downgrade the club environment substantially.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I understand the economics of a tennis facility adding pickleball courts, I see even the USRSA (US Racquet Stringers Assoc), which changed it's magazine to Tennis Industry, is including more content and ads for pickleball. Um...do they not know that THERE ARE NO STRINGS IN A PICKLEBALL PADDLE????????

Again, from an economic point of view, tennis facilities and organizations like USRSA are trying to stay relevant, but for me they are veering in a different direction and I'm not sure a continued subscription to USRSA is aligned with my interests.
Tennis Industry mag advertising is often done by equipment manufacturers and many of the same tennis racket companies also make pickleball rackets.

Many USRSA members are also tennis teaching pros, and more sources of revenue by becoming certified in pickleball is important to them.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Seems to be a very USA thing. I've note seen much pickleball on tennis courts outside of America. Hoping it will never catch on here in Canada.
Our tennis club had a recent referendum on pickleball and the overwhelming majority were against introducing it. Thank goodness. Between the noise and the goofy lines, it would downgrade the club environment substantially.
Padel Tennis is becoming very popular is Spain.
 

TennisLBC

Professional
Seems to be a very USA thing. I've note seen much pickleball on tennis courts outside of America. Hoping it will never catch on here in Canada.
Our tennis club had a recent referendum on pickleball and the overwhelming majority were against introducing it. Thank goodness. Between the noise and the goofy lines, it would downgrade the club environment substantially.
And this is why "Canada is the Cool Loft Apartment. But it's above a meth lab". To paraphrase the Late Robin Williams.
 

tennytive

Professional
I would need a bigger paddle.

To the OP: I would find that very frustrating too, and I play both. Luckily for me there are still enough tennis courts without lines for PB that are readily available.
 

OrangePower

Legend
Seems to be a very USA thing. I've note seen much pickleball on tennis courts outside of America. Hoping it will never catch on here in Canada.
Our tennis club had a recent referendum on pickleball and the overwhelming majority were against introducing it. Thank goodness. Between the noise and the goofy lines, it would downgrade the club environment substantially.
in Canada it's called "Ice pickleball"
 

IA-SteveB

Hall of Fame
I was happy to see that in my town, there is a group building eight pickleball courts for the general public. They respect the many public tennis courts we have available and do not want to ruin them with more lines. I'm not against pickleball but I also don't think it needs to be available on all public courts.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I read the TIA magazine. Interesting facts:

There are 70 companies making PB equipment, including tennis companies like Gamma and Head.
Tennis court builder companies also build PB courts.
Many tennis clubs are breaking even only because of PB.
IW Tennis Garden is going to host National PB Championships for the next 5 years in November.
Initially, they are going to line tennis courts, and then build PB-only courts in an adjacent piece of land.
IW financier Larry Ellison is a PB player.
 

TennisDawg

Professional
I read the TIA magazine. Interesting facts:

There are 70 companies making PB equipment, including tennis companies like Gamma and Head.
Tennis court builder companies also build PB courts.
Many tennis clubs are breaking even only because of PB.
IW Tennis Garden is going to host National PB Championships for the next 5 years in November.
Initially, they are going to line tennis courts, and then build PB-only courts in an adjacent piece of land.
IW financier Larry Ellison is a PB player.
It’s becoming like an epidemic in many parts of the U.S. It’s a friendly sport and with very little coordination or know how you can get a game going within 45 minutes on your 1st try. If you want to do a little hit and giggle and have donuts and coffee afterwards It’s perfect. I play occasionally, I can’t get too serious about it. It’s a game for seniors. It’s not much fun to watch even the elite players. Once they get into a dink dink dink 3rd shot
Drop shot it puts me to sleep. But there is a serious following and they are growing in leaps and bounds. I happen to notice pickleball lines at my old tennis club and a lot of advertising on Facebook for paddles, balls and traveling clinics with a lot signups. Some players even think it someday will be a major televised sport I think just because some 70 year old ex Tennis pro started into pickleball. I don’t see it, it’s just not that exciting.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Tennis lost the opportunity to promote 10-and-under tennis to seniors.

I had an interesting conversation with our club director, who is a 4.5 player but suffering from knee issues now. He said the lack of bounce of the pickleball and the inability to pick it up with the paddle causes players to bend a lot. On the one hand, it is good exercise (though for people with eyesight issues like me, the repeating bending cycles cause dizziness) but on the other, it should be a problem for older people. Yet they are turning to PB in large numbers. Isn't tennis more comfortable in that respect?
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
Tennis lost the opportunity to promote 10-and-under tennis to seniors.

I had an interesting conversation with our club director, who is a 4.5 player but suffering from knee issues now. He said the lack of bounce of the pickleball and the inability to pick it up with the paddle causes players to bend a lot. On the one hand, it is good exercise (though for people with eyesight issues like me, the repeating bending cycles cause dizziness) but on the other, it should be a problem for older people. Yet they are turning to PB in large numbers. Isn't tennis more comfortable in that respect?
You know, that is an interesting point. My gym/recreation center I belong to has pickleball courts set up on a basketball court in the mornings. My club has the aerobic stuff upstairs, which overlooks the courts, so while I'm doing my stepper, or stationary bike I can watch pb play. They DO bend over a lot. Often shots are low and they are bending forward at the waist to get the low bounce. Noticed, but never noticed.

And as for mobility, it is definitely a one step sport. One, maybe two steps is all they take during play. Tennis of course has plenty of older folks who rarely move too, but PB is for sure not aerobic.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
You know, that is an interesting point. My gym/recreation center I belong to has pickleball courts set up on a basketball court in the mornings. My club has the aerobic stuff upstairs, which overlooks the courts, so while I'm doing my stepper, or stationary bike I can watch pb play. They DO bend over a lot. Often shots are low and they are bending forward at the waist to get the low bounce. Noticed, but never noticed.

And as for mobility, it is definitely a one step sport. One, maybe two steps is all they take during play. Tennis of course has plenty of older folks who rarely move too, but PB is for sure not aerobic.
Worse than bending over for hitting is bending over for picking up the ball. It is great exercise though unless it makes you dizzy. To me, bending over for nothing is very frustrating. It is like being assigned to pick up balls on a tennis court (which actually is great exercise).
 

swizzy

Hall of Fame
nothing like playing pickle ball on an official court.. and tennis on a tennis court.. i hate the extra lines when playing tennis or pickle ball for that matter..and chasing pickle balls all over a tennis court is no fun.. but until more courts start springing up i think the tennis people will have to share.. public recreation is for the overall public and unfortunately towns have found this compromise of dual use an easy out..
 

TennisDawg

Professional
Worse than bending over for hitting is bending over for picking up the ball. It is great exercise though unless it makes you dizzy. To me, bending over for nothing is very frustrating. It is like being assigned to pick up balls on a tennis court (which actually is great exercise).
I think Tennis players hate bending down to pickup the pickleball ball. We are so used to using the racquet and foot. I find the more advanced PB players bend their knees for low balls, usually the dink dink dink shots. Lesser players bend at the waist a lot, develop back and hip issues. I realize I am critical of PB but having played tennis for decades I see a lot of injuries. Now, beginners are using ball machines to hone their pickleball skills and complaining of shoulder, elbow, hand pain. Most have little experience with racquet or paddle sports and know little about correct grips weight transfer or the correct movement for overheads. I’ve seen several fall when backing up for overheads while shuffling back off balance. But, I don’t comment as many are friends and very serious players. Just my opinion.
 
I played pickleball for the first time this weekend. It can be fun and it's easier to play than tennis. It is a game of touch, not power. You dink a lot to keep the ball below the net because otherwise the other team slams volleys. There's this area in front of the net where no one is allowed to be in and volley -- gotta let the ball bounce before hitting -- so players have to stand about 3-4 feet away from the net.

The result is in doubles games you often have all four players standing at the border of this area, so you dink it over the net so the other team has to let it bounce and hit up.

So there's some skill involved. The plastic ball doesn't take much spin though you can put a little top or slice on it. Singles, which I played briefly, does let you hit a bit from the backcourt and does let you move a bit, so it can be a light workout. Doubles you literally never have to do anything besides walk. The ball doesn't bounce much.

One of the interesting things about doubles is that because it's more a game of touch and control than power and speed, the women compete well with the men. Men might have a bit more reach but any extra speed doesn't matter much and the only time power comes into play is when you get a bit of a floater and can smack it, but the women smack those pretty hard too.

What attracted me to try is my advancing age (nearly 60) and that indoor play is relatively cheap compared to tennis. I can pay $7 to play 2.5 hours at an indoor club near me, no membership required. They do that two nights a week and have two tennis courts permanently converted to four pickleball courts. It's a way of playing a racquet sport in the winter when playing outside on free tennis courts is a bit difficult.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I played pickleball for the first time this weekend. It can be fun and it's easier to play than tennis. It is a game of touch, not power. You dink a lot to keep the ball below the net because otherwise the other team slams volleys. There's this area in front of the net where no one is allowed to be in and volley -- gotta let the ball bounce before hitting -- so players have to stand about 3-4 feet away from the net.

The result is in doubles games you often have all four players standing at the border of this area, so you dink it over the net so the other team has to let it bounce and hit up.

So there's some skill involved. The plastic ball doesn't take much spin though you can put a little top or slice on it. Singles, which I played briefly, does let you hit a bit from the backcourt and does let you move a bit, so it can be a light workout. Doubles you literally never have to do anything besides walk. The ball doesn't bounce much.

One of the interesting things about doubles is that because it's more a game of touch and control than power and speed, the women compete well with the men. Men might have a bit more reach but any extra speed doesn't matter much and the only time power comes into play is when you get a bit of a floater and can smack it, but the women smack those pretty hard too.

What attracted me to try is my advancing age (nearly 60) and that indoor play is relatively cheap compared to tennis. I can pay $7 to play 2.5 hours at an indoor club near me, no membership required. They do that two nights a week and have two tennis courts permanently converted to four pickleball courts. It's a way of playing a racquet sport in the winter when playing outside on free tennis courts is a bit difficult.
Good points. From the club side, I read several articles about facilities which have significantly increased their revenue by converting 1 tennis court to 4 tickleball courts, temporarily or permanently. The term being used in "player density" or something like that.
 

CHtennis

Rookie
I have started playing pickleball lately as well and I enjoy the learning of a new game that I am already pretty good at do to racquet skills of tennis. Public tennis courts are getting less and less play in general and when pickleball people ask rec departments to add pickleball lines or convert them to courts they are happy to do so. It doesn't hurt that in general pickleball players are older and have time to lobby for more courts. I like the passion of the pickleball community but I doubt that it will ever become as popular as tennis on the professional level, as a 5.0 myself, the top level players dont look very good, hitting finesse shots a lot of the time. I like the effect of more use of tennis courts, keeping them around and resurfaced and I dont mind the pickleball lines, just hope it doesnt become more popular and lead to a lot of pickleball only facilities decreasing my ability to play tennis on public courts.

I will say physically, I dont get why it is good for older people, I spend a lot of time bending over or bending my knees which I would not think would be great for the older crowd. There is little to no running but my back and knees get quite a work out from a good pickleball game.
 

Big Bagel

Professional
I have started playing pickleball lately as well and I enjoy the learning of a new game that I am already pretty good at do to racquet skills of tennis. Public tennis courts are getting less and less play in general and when pickleball people ask rec departments to add pickleball lines or convert them to courts they are happy to do so. It doesn't hurt that in general pickleball players are older and have time to lobby for more courts. I like the passion of the pickleball community but I doubt that it will ever become as popular as tennis on the professional level, as a 5.0 myself, the top level players dont look very good, hitting finesse shots a lot of the time. I like the effect of more use of tennis courts, keeping them around and resurfaced and I dont mind the pickleball lines, just hope it doesnt become more popular and lead to a lot of pickleball only facilities decreasing my ability to play tennis on public courts.

I will say physically, I dont get why it is good for older people, I spend a lot of time bending over or bending my knees which I would not think would be great for the older crowd. There is little to no running but my back and knees get quite a work out from a good pickleball game.
There are actually some old people getting injuries for doing those very things from pickleball. Certified pickleball pros are starting to pop up more though, and they are trying to help old people prevent those injuries. You've gotta be careful out there; you don't move nearly as much so you don't pay much attention to your movement or posture, but that's exactly what you need to focus on to prevent injuries rather than the form of hitting the ball like with tennis.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I have started playing pickleball lately as well and I enjoy the learning of a new game that I am already pretty good at do to racquet skills of tennis. Public tennis courts are getting less and less play in general and when pickleball people ask rec departments to add pickleball lines or convert them to courts they are happy to do so. It doesn't hurt that in general pickleball players are older and have time to lobby for more courts. I like the passion of the pickleball community but I doubt that it will ever become as popular as tennis on the professional level, as a 5.0 myself, the top level players dont look very good, hitting finesse shots a lot of the time. I like the effect of more use of tennis courts, keeping them around and resurfaced and I dont mind the pickleball lines, just hope it doesnt become more popular and lead to a lot of pickleball only facilities decreasing my ability to play tennis on public courts.

I will say physically, I dont get why it is good for older people, I spend a lot of time bending over or bending my knees which I would not think would be great for the older crowd. There is little to no running but my back and knees get quite a work out from a good pickleball game.
Another excellent post. I had mentioned the same issue in another thread. Tennis allows ball pickup without bending, tickleball does not. Bending is a great exercise, but it is not suitable on a continuous basis for older people or people with eye issues (physiological or simply due to motion blur from transition lenses), apart from being very irritating.

Tennis lost a great opportunity by not rebranding 10-and-under tennis as 100-and-over tennis and allowed tickleball to take over that segment.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
When I tried tickleball, I found no feel from the hard surfaces of the paddle and ball, and could not tolerate the sound.
 
I was thinking about seniors tennis. I think doubles is fine the way it is, but singles gets harder to play as we get older. I think a simple rule for seniors singles would be that if the ball bounces twice in a service box, replay the point. That removes the annoying drop shots, which really are harder for older adults to get to and feel pretty cheap.

Not really sure what else you can do. You could try making the court a bit narrower to cut down on wide shots a bit, but I don't think you can trim the dimensions too much.
 
I will say physically, I dont get why it is good for older people, I spend a lot of time bending over or bending my knees which I would not think would be great for the older crowd. There is little to no running but my back and knees get quite a work out from a good pickleball game.
Well, if you go to a community center where they have pickleball hours, you'll find a group of seniors usually. I played Sunday morning at a place like this and there were about 30-40 players and 5 courts set up on basketball courts. The matches take no more than 20 minutes so you play and then sit and wait to rotate in again. You do have to bend over. There's no getting around that. The ball doesn't bounce much so you are often hitting low balls and since it's little more than an oversized ping-pong paddle, you have to bend to hit the ball. And of course you have to bend to pick it up. You can't pick up the ball the way we pick up a tennis ball by trapping it against your foot with your racket.

So yes, a lot of bending but in short bursts of 15-20 minutes. I don't know if that's bad for older people, but it's part of the game.

Personally, I wish the ball bounced a bit better, but the way the game plays if you play doubles it's all about crowding as close to the net as allowed and hitting volleys. Singles is a bit different. Net rushing is still the main strategy but there's a better chance to hit a passing shot.

The hardest part for me so far in my limited play time is getting used to the way the ball behaves and the short racket. I have decades of tennis in my head so I often find myself lunging a bit at the ball because the bounce is coming up short. Interestingly, you do get better control over volleys since the racket head is so close to your hand.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I love topspin so tickleball will never give me satisfaction

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I love topspin so tickleball will never give me satisfaction
You can get a bit of dip on the ball, but the main thing is pickleball is not really a groundstroke game. You hit a groundstroke on the return of serve, and the serving team has to let the return bounce so they hit a groundstroke, but that's often the only groundstrokes hit during the point.
 
Not really sure what else you can do. You could try making the court a bit narrower to cut down on wide shots a bit, but I don't think you can trim the dimensions too much.
I've invented a new game of tennis "TRIPLES"--three players on a side one, tight to the net wearing ice hockey goalie's gear.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Let me clarify that, there will be two old farts back, and one old fart in a hockey goalie outfit, tight to the net. Fire away--triples was invented for super-super-super seniors.
The net guy will keep being hit on the head - by his own partners
 
So glad my club (public) doesn't allow this degenerate game to be played on their courts. It's a very busy center and I'd be really annoyed if I showed up and a court was being used for this nonsense.
There's a newer center on the other side of town that has like 8 dedicated courts for this. I'm fine with that, just keep it off tennis courts.
 

am1899

Hall of Fame
I’ve also heard a rumor with respect to sites:

Eventually USTA will not consider sites for sanctioned play, tournaments, etc. with permanent PB lines painted on their tennis courts. I don’t want PB to go away. But I also hope the rumor is true. If I wanted to play tennis on a gym floor with lines running everywhere, I wouldn’t be a member at a tennis club.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
So glad my club (public) doesn't allow this degenerate game to be played on their courts. It's a very busy center and I'd be really annoyed if I showed up and a court was being used for this nonsense.
There's a newer center on the other side of town that has like 8 dedicated courts for this. I'm fine with that, just keep it off tennis courts.
If it is a public club, they need to take the community into account. I heard that many Parks and Rec departments are taking a close look at pickleball due to public demand
 

BlueB

Legend
Next to our local bubble, there are 2 public outdoor courts. Recently they were resurfaced. City decided to paint 2 pickles courts, perpenficular on one half of one tenis court and let pickles use their portable nets. Now, that was a great idea. But wait, one of the tennis courts has a wall on one side, so logical place for pickles was on the opposite half of that same court, right? Right. But guess where they painted the pickle lines? Yup... on the other court...

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Raindogs

Hall of Fame
Take away that idiotic no coming to the net rule and you might actually have an interesting game.

Otherwise, it's just a way for oldsters to soak up a little sun in the wee hours before dawn's impending death.
 

Big Bagel

Professional
Take away that idiotic no coming to the net rule and you might actually have an interesting game.

Otherwise, it's just a way for oldsters to soak up a little sun in the wee hours before dawn's impending death.
The no-volley zone is actually what makes the game great. With how slow the ball moves through the air, it would pretty much be an automatic win if you could get to the net. With the no-volley zone, it still makes being at the net an advantage, but evens it out a little and makes it a much more skillful game, along with making it easier to play with players a little better or worse than you and still have good competition.
 
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