Platform stance. R.I.P. Long live Pinpoint!

[TimeToPlaySets]

Today, during serve practice, I decided to try pinpoint stance again.
I was practicing 2nd serves, and just couldn't get the topspin I wanted.

Ironically, I feel MORE balanced than with platform.
And I feel I'm able to go up more directly.
I can't explain it. Everything just flows better from pinpoint.

Since I am now easily jumping higher, I needed to adjust the ball toss higher.
But, I am sticking with this for good. No turning back.

I am now going to do some research on this stance, as it's brand new for me.
I incorporated the foot slide with the toss.

Oh, and this even finally solved the rear leg kick back effect.
It used to confound me as to why guys swinging HALF the speed were kicking their rear leg back.
It is a result of the pinpoint stance.
With the rear leg already back in platform, there is no need to kick back to counterbalanced.
You are already counterbalanced.
With pinpoint, any movement forward throws off your balance.
Today, I was getting rear kick back galore. Yay.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I will post a video this weekend, as I think it's a step forward.

 

[LeeD]

Welcome to 65% of the world's tennis player's.

 

[SinjinCooper]

Oh, and this even finally solved the rear leg kick back effect.
It used to confound me as to why guys swinging HALF the speed were kicking their rear leg back.
It is a result of the pinpoint stance.
With the rear leg already back in platform, there is no need to kick back to counterbalanced.
You are already counterbalanced.
With pinpoint, any movement forward throws off your balance.
Today, I was getting rear kick back galore. Yay.

This is not why. And those guys aren't swinging half your speed. But glad it's working for you if the aesthetic of the leg kick is vital to your tennis worldview.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Today, during serve practice, I decided to try pinpoint stance again.
I was practicing 2nd serves, and just couldn't get the topspin I wanted.

Ironically, I feel MORE balanced than with platform.
And I feel I'm able to go up more directly.
I can't explain it. Everything just flows better from pinpoint.

Since I am now easily jumping higher, I needed to adjust the ball toss higher.
But, I am sticking with this for good. No turning back.

I am now going to do some research on this stance, as it's brand new for me.
I incorporated the foot slide with the toss.

Oh, and this even finally solved the rear leg kick back effect.
It used to confound me as to why guys swinging HALF the speed were kicking their rear leg back.
It is a result of the pinpoint stance.
With the rear leg already back in platform, there is no need to kick back to counterbalanced.
You are already counterbalanced.
With pinpoint, any movement forward throws off your balance.
Today, I was getting rear kick back galore. Yay.

If you're now moving toward your target as opposed to away from it, I'd say that's a good thing.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

This is not why. And those guys aren't swinging half your speed. But glad it's working for you if the aesthetic of the leg kick is vital to your tennis worldview.

I see very weak 3.0 caliber serves that have the leg kick.
It was truly baffling until I saw the obvious.
Platform simply does not lend itself to the kick.
Even with deep toss into the court, and body moving forward, the rear leg will barely kick in platform.
Thank for for playing.

If you're now moving toward your target as opposed to away from it, I'd say that's a good thing.

I've been moving towards the target for many months now.
However, see the comment above about the leg kick.
Moving forward alone does not create the leg kick, as I've proven.
The leg simply rolls around. With pinpoint, instantly, the rear leg is kicking like a bronco !

 

[mad dog1]

@TimeToPlaySets

Federer has a platform stance and his rear leg kicks up. Please explain how this is possible.

 

[mad dog1]

...Platform simply does not lend itself to the kick.
Even with deep toss into the court, and body moving forward, the rear leg will barely kick in platform.
Thank for for playing.



I've been moving towards the target for many months now.
However, see the comment above about the leg kick.
Moving forward alone does not create the leg kick, as I've proven.
The leg simply rolls around. With pinpoint, instantly, the rear leg is kicking like a bronco !

So how is it that Federer with his platform stance gets his rear leg to kick up? Really interested in reading your deep analysis.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Easy, Fed seems to have some kind of hybrid PlatPoint stance.

 

[Topspin Shot]

I will post a video this weekend, as I think it's a step forward.

If you were smart enough to make this joke on purpose, I'd laugh.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Pun was intended,

 

[mad dog1]

If you were smart enough to make this joke on purpose, I'd laugh.

Nothing about making jokes is intuitive. Must get coaching and drill!!! You have ZERO clue!

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Nothing about making jokes is intuitive. Must get coaching and drill!!! You have ZERO clue!

Here is why you've not gotten any better at tennis in your adult life
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...of-control-why-people-dont-get-better.592265/

 

[Gazelle]

This guy must be a troll, right? All these threads can't be serious.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

This guy must be a troll, right? All these threads can't be serious.

In a forum where people constantly buy new rackets, never drill or practice, and think just watching videos make you a better player,
yes, someone who is playing, drilling, and improving every day is a troll.

 

[fundrazer]

In a forum where people constantly buy new rackets, never drill or practice, and think just watching videos make you a better player,
yes, someone who is playing, drilling, and improving every day is a troll.

Just because you say you are doesn't necessarily make it true

 

[mcs1970]

Just because you say you are doesn't necessarily make it true

You can't argue with him. His mind is made up that he's the only one doing drills and/or taking lessons.

 

[Sirius Black]

Just ****ing serve, man

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I see very weak 3.0 caliber serves that have the leg kick.
It was truly baffling until I saw the obvious.
Platform simply does not lend itself to the kick...

Nonsense. Sampras, Federer, Raonic and numerous others kick the leg back. A lot of rec/amateur players as well. Jeff Salzenstien and Will Hamilton advocate the platform stance. It was Will that brought the leg kick to the attention of many on TT more than a decade ago. Clay Ballard and Brady Heite appear to prefer the platform as well.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Nonsense. Sampras, Federer, Raonic and numerous others kick the leg back. A lot of rec/amateur players as well. Jeff Salzenstien and Will Hamilton advocate the platform stance. .

What is the purpose of kick back? (assume flat first serve with platform stance).

Is it an indication that one is tossing forward and leaning into the court and should ideally be incorporated into the service motion?

 

[meltphace 6]

Moar threads!

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I see very weak 3.0 caliber serves that have the leg kick.
It was truly baffling until I saw the obvious.
Platform simply does not lend itself to the kick...

It occurred to me that your front foot might not be coming off the ground when you employ a platform stance. This is a very old school version of the platform stance that many rec players still use. Take a look at the serve of Pancho Gonzales or Rod Laver. Brady Heite also does this in his serve videos. If the front foot does not come off the ground, then it will probably be used as a pivot foot. In this case the back leg will often swing forward -- it takes a step forward into the court rather than kicking back.

For a platform stance where both feet come off the ground, the server will land on the front foot and the back leg should kick back. It may subsequently come forward, especially for S&V players.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

What is the purpose of kick back? (assume flat first serve with platform stance).

Is it an indication that one is tossing forward and leaning into the court and should ideally be incorporated into the service motion?

Not completely certain about the purpose but, I believe that it is used, in part, as a counterbalance when landing on the front foot (after a jump). Seems to be the case with Andy and Maria. The upper body is leaning quite a bit forward and the back leg is kicked back. This might also facilitate something of a forward "snap" of the upper torso.

Another possible reason for the kick back is to keep the hips from over-rotating late in the motion. Right-handed servers who do not kick toward the back (fence) will often kick off to the right instead. This often results in the body falling significantly off to the left -- instead of having the body driving upward & forward, it drives up & off to the left.

 

[mad dog1]

Nonsense. Sampras, Federer, Raonic and numerous others kick the leg back. A lot of rec/amateur players as well. Jeff Salzenstien and Will Hamilton advocate the platform stance. It was Will that brought the leg kick to the attention of many on TT more than a decade ago. Clay Ballard and Brady Heite appear to prefer the platform as well.

You know zero about tennis! You must be a 3.0 hack serving with your nipples facing the net.

He is improving every millisecond! Are you?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

You know zero about tennis! You must be a 3.0 hack serving with your nipples facing the net.

He is improving every millisecond! Are you?

Sadly, no. There was a time when I was improving every nanosecond. But that was more than a decade ago. Not played at all since my early 60s. Knowledge is currently some negative value.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Not completely certain about the purpose but, I believe that it is used, in part, as a counterbalance when landing on the front foot (after a jump). Seems to be the case with Andy and Maria. The upper body is leaning quite a bit forward and the back leg is kicked back. This might also facilitate something of a forward "snap" of the upper torso.

Another possible reason for the kick back is to keep the hips from over-rotating late in the motion. Right-handed servers who do not kick toward the back (fence) will often kick off to the right instead. This often results in the body falling significantly off to the left -- instead of having the body driving upward & forward, it drives up & off to the left.

Preventing against over-rotation makes sense. I see lots of club players falling awkwardly to the left, some pro players do it too to a lesser extent ... There is also a video of interesting drill that Jeff Greenwald does. Serve and then do two "hoppity hops". It is currently on the free trial of TP. If you can't do that drill, it means you are off balance and will be swinging body around to the left...I will try to experiment with a greatly modified version of that drill as I cannot come anywhere close as Sharapova and Roddick. Their chests are practically parallel to the court. I will likely end up falling over...

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/your_strokes/2017/sai_serve/