Played 2 weaker hitting opponents back to back. WOW.

I mainly hit with very hard hitting 3.5s who pound the ball.
Seasons are changing so I am shifting my hitting cadre.
This week, I played 2 weaker hitting opponents

WOW.

Sometimes, you don't see your progress
until you revisit your old baseline.

Against a weaker player, I was able to dictate with ease.
Basically, putting the ball where ever I wanted.

Angled FHs to either side, hitting near the side line, unreturnable
Nice 70% control, with lots of spin and net clearance.
Nice safe pressure ball.
I didn't always need to pound FH
Just put it where ever I want.
If it comes back, repeat.

I never ever get so many short balls against bashers.
Drop shots galore to finish short balls inside the service box.

Lots of slices to maintain the rally, if they do get a heavy ball off wide.
Slice is getting more and more reliable.

Free points on 2nd serves.

Backhand was rock solid, since there was no pressure.
Early turn, I just put some spin, and hit high and deep.
I can hit that BH all day long
Waited for the pounder FH.

Closing out lots of points at the net.
FH winners. And very controlled. Not wild maniac ATP 3.5 winners.
BH winners. All time time in the world to set up and pound DTL.
Service winners.

And a massive reduction in UE where there is not much pace on the ball.
Basically, in control the entire match.

Yes, the weak player does get points, but in the long run, he will get very few games.
Good reminder that my game has taken a huge step up in the last year.
 
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mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Stop already with this 3.5 nonsense. They are 3.5 players for a reason, they are inferior to 4.0 and 4.5. Bring me your best 3.5 player and I will clean their clock. They won’t make it past 4 or 5 shot rallies with me.
Stop with your nonsense! 3.5s can win points off pros! 4.5s are former D1 players and look just like pros. If 3.5s can win points off pros and 4.5 strokes are virtually identical to pros, you will not clean a 3.5’s clock! ;)
 
Stop already with this 3.5 nonsense. They are 3.5 players for a reason, they are inferior to 4.0 and 4.5. Bring me your best 3.5 player and I will clean their clock. They won’t make it past 4 or 5 shot rallies with me.
Yea, that's kind of the point.
They hit way too hard to sustain a 5 ball rally.
I am not used to getting such weak balls.
When I do, the point is basically over
I did not realize this since I generally don't hit with any weak hitting partners.
 

mmk

Hall of Fame
Stop with your nonsense! 3.5s can win points off pros! 4.5s are former D1 players and look just like pros. If 3.5s can win points off pros and 4.5 strokes are virtually identical to pros, you will not clean a 3.5’s clock! ;)
Especially when I pull out my wood racquets!
 
"Hard hitting 3.5's" is a group to entirely avoid. They are still 3.5's because obviously they can't keep more than 50% of the balls they hit in the court. So you win points against them just by standing there. What's the point of that? Play pushers if you want to develop your game.
Average ATP rally length is 4.
I'd say our rallies are about the same length.
We aren't interested in granny tennis
 

thehustler

Semi-Pro
Average ATP rally length is 4.
I'd say our rallies are about the same length.
We aren't interested in granny tennis
You can have two pushers have a 60 shot rally with just lobs and moonballs and that doesn't mean that they're anywhere comparable to the pros. Pros rallies end because of the shots they force on each other. They are constantly forcing errors from each other. Us amateur hacks have our rallies end because we suck. We're more likely to hit unforced errors because we're not as refined as a pro.
 

thehustler

Semi-Pro
No, we have forced errors, just like ATP.
No we don't. None of us hit like Nadal, defend like Djokovic, serve like Isner, move gracefully like Federer. Most of our errors are unforced. At our hack level if you have two equal players at 3.0 the errors are going to be unforced, not forced. Nobody is going to hit hard enough, consistently enough to constantly generate forced errors. Most will be UE's. You might get a few forced errors in there, but errors at these lower levels will be due to a lack of tennis ability. It'll be due to form, footwork, positioning, etc. It won't be due to someone smacking the ball so hard over and over that the opponent is forced into errors. The higher up you go the better chance of forcing errors more consistently, but I'd say you'd have to get to around 4.5 or 5.0 to start doing that.
 

thehustler

Semi-Pro
Anybody can smack a ball hard. Smacking a ball hard, while controlling it consistently is another thing. That's what pros do so well. And a low paced ball can still generate an error. If I hit a lob that landed on the baseline and force you 15 feet behind and you dump it into the middle of the net it's an error. You can be at the net and hit a volley, take all the pace off of it and the opponent can get to it and still hit an error. I see it happen all the time. I'll intentionally take pace off a ball because I know I can get an error from my opponent. I just put some spin on it so it bounces higher but remove the juice and watch the errors fly. Does that mean I can do that against a pro? Nope. Just against our level of players. You could debate on if it's a force or unforced error, as I knew the shot would force them into an error, but you could say how they handled it was unforced as well.
 

KineticChain

Hall of Fame
was smacking some hard 3.5 level balls with my m8 on the court and all of a sudden Del Potro and Solderling walked by and they were like "wow u guys hit the ball so hard, that's crazy". i was like like "thanks... now get lost you scrubs, you just ruined my concentration". we went back to our elite 3.5 power rallies after the interruption. ATP.. more like ATHacks
 
was smacking some hard 3.5 level balls with my m8 on the court and all of a sudden Del Potro and Solderling walked by and they were like "wow u guys hit the ball so hard, that's crazy". i was like like "thanks... now get lost you scrubs, you just ruined my concentration". we went back to our elite 3.5 power rallies after the interruption. ATP.. more like ATHacks
ATP players are pushers.
Go watch some challengers matches
They hit twice as hard and therefore never make it to pros.
They hit 100% and lose the point.
Pushing wins at all levels
 

JoelDali

G.O.A.T.
No we don't. None of us hit like Nadal, defend like Djokovic, serve like Isner, move gracefully like Federer. Most of our errors are unforced. At our hack level if you have two equal players at 3.0 the errors are going to be unforced, not forced. Nobody is going to hit hard enough, consistently enough to constantly generate forced errors. Most will be UE's. You might get a few forced errors in there, but errors at these lower levels will be due to a lack of tennis ability. It'll be due to form, footwork, positioning, etc. It won't be due to someone smacking the ball so hard over and over that the opponent is forced into errors. The higher up you go the better chance of forcing errors more consistently, but I'd say you'd have to get to around 4.5 or 5.0 to start doing that.
Some of the top 3.5 national level players have the same skills as the top 3 u mention. The problem is confidence. Moast 3.5 players were not coached in their youth so the confidence is lacking but shot selection, movement and power is all there. The top Philippino 3.5 in Queens would get games off Nadal on hardcourt. Guaranteed.
 
Some of the top 3.5 national level players have the same skills as the top 3 u mention. The problem is confidence. Moast 3.5 players were not coached in their youth so the confidence is lacking but shot selection, movement and power is all there. The top Philippino 3.5 in Queens would get games off Nadal on hardcourt. Guaranteed.
Yup. Tennis is 100% mental.
If you just envision success, you will attain it.
You can even beat cancer just by thinking strong.
#InnerGame
 

thehustler

Semi-Pro
Some of the top 3.5 national level players have the same skills as the top 3 u mention. The problem is confidence. Moast 3.5 players were not coached in their youth so the confidence is lacking but shot selection, movement and power is all there. The top Philippino 3.5 in Queens would get games off Nadal on hardcourt. Guaranteed.
Ok. I can hit my forehand to bounce up around shoulder level on my opponents if I choose. It can frustrate most opponents, especially ones with one handed backhands. However do I think my forehand is anywhere near what Rafa can do? Nope. I wasn't coached in my youth either. I think these guys who can 'supposedly' get games off of Rafa wouldn't be lacking in confidence if you really think they hit like that. It's more like they lack shot selection, movement and power. When I played 3.5 I played guys who could hit the ball hard....for 3.5. And I had been playing for just 6 months at that point. I got all of their shots back. They'd hit 5 or 6 winners against me in a point, but I got them all back. The last one would wind up hitting the back wall as they were frustrated. When I played 4.0 and 4.5 and have even hit with former pros there's a difference at each level. I remember doing tournaments and being next to open players when I was a beginner 4.0. No way I'd get a game off of them. The ball just sounded different off their rackets. You just knew each shot was in the sweet spot. So a 3.5 which I'd crush would get games off of Nadal? Heck I'd better get some money together and go qualify for the Aussie Open. Odds are I'd win the whole thing.

Yup. Tennis is 100% mental.
If you just envision success, you will attain it.
You can even beat cancer just by thinking strong.
#InnerGame
Yeah, that's great for a poster hanging on the wall, but no. It's like thinking God supports your team. God's an Alabama fan one year and the for Clemson the next. Must have a warped sense of humor, especially since the Patriots are constantly in the Super Bowl. The mind is an amazing thing and can do lots of things, but in a competition there's always a winner and a loser. I'd imagine both Federer and Djokovic both envisioned success in the Wimbledon final, but only one came out on top.
 

JoelDali

G.O.A.T.
Ok. I can hit my forehand to bounce up around shoulder level on my opponents if I choose. It can frustrate most opponents, especially ones with one handed backhands. However do I think my forehand is anywhere near what Rafa can do? Nope. I wasn't coached in my youth either. I think these guys who can 'supposedly' get games off of Rafa wouldn't be lacking in confidence if you really think they hit like that. It's more like they lack shot selection, movement and power. When I played 3.5 I played guys who could hit the ball hard....for 3.5. And I had been playing for just 6 months at that point. I got all of their shots back. They'd hit 5 or 6 winners against me in a point, but I got them all back. The last one would wind up hitting the back wall as they were frustrated. When I played 4.0 and 4.5 and have even hit with former pros there's a difference at each level. I remember doing tournaments and being next to open players when I was a beginner 4.0. No way I'd get a game off of them. The ball just sounded different off their rackets. You just knew each shot was in the sweet spot. So a 3.5 which I'd crush would get games off of Nadal? Heck I'd better get some money together and go qualify for the Aussie Open. Odds are I'd win the whole thing.



Yeah, that's great for a poster hanging on the wall, but no. It's like thinking God supports your team. God's an Alabama fan one year and the for Clemson the next. Must have a warped sense of humor, especially since the Patriots are constantly in the Super Bowl. The mind is an amazing thing and can do lots of things, but in a competition there's always a winner and a loser. I'd imagine both Federer and Djokovic both envisioned success in the Wimbledon final, but only one came out on top.
David Geffen once said of Barbara Streisand:

“Barbara is such a genius and so talented she could be Joe Montana if she wanted to....”

Rafa is a great player, but the top 3.5 at the National level cannot be dismissed. Like i said, the top Philippino 3.5 in Queens, who is a former Davis Cup player could give Rafa trouble on hard court.
 
Yeah, that's great for a poster hanging on the wall, but no. It's like thinking God supports your team. God's an Alabama fan one year and the for Clemson the next. Must have a warped sense of humor, especially since the Patriots are constantly in the Super Bowl. The mind is an amazing thing and can do lots of things, but in a competition there's always a winner and a loser. I'd imagine both Federer and Djokovic both envisioned success in the Wimbledon final, but only one came out on top.
Praying is even stronger.
The lord works in mysterious ways.

You just need faith.
If you believe you will win, you will 100% win.
Just read Oprah's "The Secret".
The law of attraction will make you success beyond your dreams.
 
I'll try and make it even simpler than @thehustler. So what if two players go into the same match with this attitude, should we just call it a draw?
It is the one who believes more.
Whoever has done more prayer also has the edge.
Strokes don't even matter.
Federer is #1 for one reason only.
He has the confidence and believes in himself.
It has nothing to do with strokes or any lessons he took.
Tennis is 100% mental.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
I mainly hit with very hard hitting 3.5s who pound the ball.
Seasons are changing so I am shifting my hitting cadre.
This week, I played 2 weaker hitting opponents

WOW.

Sometimes, you don't see your progress
until you revisit your old baseline.

Against a weaker player, I was able to dictate with ease.
Basically, putting the ball where ever I wanted.

Angled FHs to either side, hitting near the side line, unreturnable
Nice 70% control, with lots of spin and net clearance.
Nice safe pressure ball.
I didn't always need to pound FH
Just put it where ever I want.
If it comes back, repeat.

I never ever get so many short balls against bashers.
Drop shots galore to finish short balls inside the service box.

Lots of slices to maintain the rally, if they do get a heavy ball off wide.
Slice is getting more and more reliable.

Free points on 2nd serves.

Backhand was rock solid, since there was no pressure.
Early turn, I just put some spin, and hit high and deep.
I can hit that BH all day long
Waited for the pounder FH.

Closing out lots of points at the net.
FH winners. And very controlled. Not wild maniac ATP 3.5 winners.
BH winners. All time time in the world to set up and pound DTL.
Service winners.

And a massive reduction in UE where there is not much pace on the ball.
Basically, in control the entire match.

Yes, the weak player does get points, but in the long run, he will get very few games.
Good reminder that my game has taken a huge step up in the last year.
Dang. You guys sound like 4.5’s or high level juniors.
 

thehustler

Semi-Pro
Praying is even stronger.
The lord works in mysterious ways.

You just need faith.
If you believe you will win, you will 100% win.
Just read Oprah's "The Secret".
The law of attraction will make you success beyond your dreams.
Ever heard of Tebowing? How'd that work out for him? Law of attraction only works so much. You have to be willing to do the stuff when it comes your way. You think people weren't praying for Federer to win Wimbledon? How'd that work out? Does Djokovic have more fans who pray? Do they say a better prayer?
 
Ever heard of Tebowing? How'd that work out for him? Law of attraction only works so much. You have to be willing to do the stuff when it comes your way. You think people weren't praying for Federer to win Wimbledon? How'd that work out? Does Djokovic have more fans who pray? Do they say a better prayer?
You need to pray more effectively than your opponent.
Most people pray with very poor form.
Spend their entire lives praying very poorly, and are not even aware of it.
They are lose causes, and are stuck in the realm of casual adult pray.
A junior with correct mentored prayer will pray better than someone who has been praying their entire lives.
 

thehustler

Semi-Pro
David Geffen once said of Barbara Streisand:

“Barbara is such a genius and so talented she could be Joe Montana if she wanted to....”

Rafa is a great player, but the top 3.5 at the National level cannot be dismissed. Like i said, the top Philippino 3.5 in Queens, who is a former Davis Cup player could give Rafa trouble on hard court.
Being a genius in one area doesn't mean you'd be a genius elsewhere.

So this national 3.5 player is a sandbagger? They were once Davis cup material but now play 3.5? Not 4.0? Not 4.5? Not open? So they're older and don't have the same mobility as when they played Davis cup and play 3.5 but could somehow take games off of a 19 time slam winner? So maybe they have some stroke form from when they were younger, but, yeah I'm sorry I just don't buy it.
 

thehustler

Semi-Pro
You need advanced prayer coaching in order to pray more effectively than your opponent.
Most people pray with very poor form. Spend their entire lives praying very poorly, and are not even aware of it.
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was talking with the Pope. Please teach us to pray. I never was told as a kid or ever heard anybody say I'm praying at a 3.0 level and if I want to get more from God I need to pray a certain way. Hmm so Federer fans forgot how to pray? Djokovic and Nadal fans got better at it? What's next? A. Zverev starts winning slams because his fans learn how to pray, or does he learn to pray? All these years I thought it was just who was the better player on a given day. Silly me.
 
Fan prayer can not affect the match outcome.
That's just the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.
Like some fan watching TV prays and you think that will affect how Fed plays halfway across the globe.
That's just asinine.

It only can be affected by Fed's own personal praying.

The only way to win is to have confidence in yourself.
Everything else is secondary.
Tennis is 100% mental.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
It is the one who believes more.
Whoever has done more prayer also has the edge.
Strokes don't even matter.
Federer is #1 for one reason only.
He has the confidence and believes in himself.
It has nothing to do with strokes or any lessons he took.
Tennis is 100% mental.
Except Federer isn’t #1 anymore. Lol
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
You need to pray more effectively than your opponent.
Most people pray with very poor form.
Spend their entire lives praying very poorly, and are not even aware of it.
They are lose causes, and are stuck in the realm of casual adult pray.
A junior with correct mentored prayer will pray better than someone who has been praying their entire lives.
If all that is true, why all the lessons and soft strings. just pray the TE away and no need for lessons. This has to be a troll post.
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
No we don't. None of us hit like Nadal, defend like Djokovic, serve like Isner, move gracefully like Federer. Most of our errors are unforced. At our hack level if you have two equal players at 3.0 the errors are going to be unforced, not forced. Nobody is going to hit hard enough, consistently enough to constantly generate forced errors. Most will be UE's. You might get a few forced errors in there, but errors at these lower levels will be due to a lack of tennis ability. It'll be due to form, footwork, positioning, etc. It won't be due to someone smacking the ball so hard over and over that the opponent is forced into errors. The higher up you go the better chance of forcing errors more consistently, but I'd say you'd have to get to around 4.5 or 5.0 to start doing that.
I disagree, if you hit your ball within a certain distance of me I will not miss, ever. Errors creep in when the opponents ball is too far and you are running to it. 3.5s should not miss when ball is within reasonable reach.
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
ATP players are pushers.
Go watch some challengers matches
They hit twice as hard and therefore never make it to pros.
They hit 100% and lose the point.
Pushing wins at all levels
Pushing wins, I was watching the USO quallies and there were 2 male players hitting one was the #3 seed. During the 1st set, I though the opponent was going to destroy the #3 seed. He was hitting a much much harder ball. He was up 5-2. He ended up losing in straights. The #3 player basically stopped making errors. Hit balls just hard enough to move the opponent corner to corner and the opponent was just going for broke on every shot. Something to be learned there.
 
If all that is true, why all the lessons and soft strings. just pray the TE away and no need for lessons. This has to be a troll post.
I only realized the power of positive thinking and law of attraction this week.
I have fired my coach, and will be praying 3 hours a day.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
Pushing wins, I was watching the USO quallies and there were 2 male players hitting one was the #3 seed. During the 1st set, I though the opponent was going to destroy the #3 seed. He was hitting a much much harder ball. He was up 5-2. He ended up losing in straights. The #3 player basically stopped making errors. Hit balls just hard enough to move the opponent corner to corner and the opponent was just going for broke on every shot. Something to be learned there.
Thats not the definition of pushing.
 
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