Played a much better player, now im disapointed and angry

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
Man, if you haven't, incorporate deadlift and some leg work in your training. I been doing that for 2 months now and my footwork is 10% better. its like walking on clouds.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
I win by grinding and attacking when it’s a high % shot. But I’ve been working on being able to be a better offensive player. But I use what works best for my abilities and grinding and hitting a lot of topspin mostly with some short chips and drop shots mixed in.

Most of my opponents don’t like my style either. My strongpoints are consistency and fitness which I’ve been able to use to win my share of matches.
I'd love to win a league match only hitting slices and relying on my fitness. Hmm...
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Man, if you haven't, incorporate deadlift and some leg work in your training. I been doing that for 2 months now and my footwork is 10% better. its like walking on clouds.
10% better? try doing interval training on an outdoor public stair. just sprint up then walk down to catch your breath, for 15 minutes, it will turn you into a beast on the court. almost 100% guarantee you will be fitter than your opponent
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
10% better? try doing interval training on an outdoor public stair. just sprint up then walk down to catch your breath, for 15 minutes, it will turn you into a beast on the court. almost 100% guarantee you will be fitter than your opponent
I do HIIT running once a week. And 10% better is not enough???? I think if you can get 10% better in 2 month, how far you can go in a year????
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
I do HIIT running once a week. And 10% better is not enough???? I think if you can get 10% better in 2 month, how far you can go in a year????
120% if theres no law of diminishing returns, but there is...

Its cool you find dead lifts to help. For me I want to train as least amount as possible, i've just noticed huge gains from only 15 minutes of training on the stair. No gym membership or expensive weights required either
 

Curious

Legend
120% if theres no law of diminishing returns, but there is...

Its cool you find dead lifts to help. For me I want to train as least amount as possible, i've just noticed huge gains from only 15 minutes of training on the stair. No gym membership or expensive weights required either
Apparently Thiem trains in the forest with no equipment.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Apparently Thiem trains in the forest with no equipment.
Yeah, I don't think weights are necessary for tennis players. Especially not rec players. Might be useful during some rehab stuff I guess, but usually that stuff is due to weak supporting muscles or tendons and requires very little weight (a 2L bottle of water is probably enough lol)
 

Digital Atheist

Professional
EDIT: Incontinence is no joke, apparently!

If I understand the USTA rating system correctly (and I might not, so take my comment with a grain of salt) then perhaps aiming to achieve a solid 4.5 rating might be more realistic, and yet still extremely difficult. If I were you I would set that as my first goal, and if you ever achieve it be happy. From the videos I've seen, going from 4.5 to 5.0 will be as much of a struggle as it is just getting to 4.5.

But like i said, I could be wrong.
 
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Traffic

Hall of Fame
I hit mostly topspin from the forehand side but slice a lot on the backhand.
I played a 4.0 during mixed. He had a driving slice for BH that was super good. He would run around his FH to his BH. His serves were not that awesome, but he never DF'd. Just relied on winning every rally with his BH.
 
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Traffic

Hall of Fame
They played 100%, trust me I know, so I know their level and my level. I never said what the result was or how hard I got crushed or how I faired against them tho, I was just teasing tlm a bit.
Looks like you have a nice FH and serve. Looked a bit lazy on getting to balls not in your strike zone.

Again, without playing in a USTA league, NTRP is all over the board (TT Board that is...;)). Not saying you are or are not good. Just saying a lot of folks have claimed to play against 4.0 and yet they have not played an organized league match. You can have 4.0 strokes and then get beat by a strong 3.0 because they play the same in practice as they do in formal matches. And at this level, they are used to playing against junk balls. Most players fall 0.5-1.0 NTRP once they play formal matches until they can deal with playing under pressure. Just saying.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
Most players fall 0.5-1.0 NTRP once they play formal matches until they can deal with playing under pressure. Just saying.
Ding Ding Ding .... there is such a thing as being "seasoned" or getting match-toughness. It also allows someone to win on the court against someone with perhaps technically "better" tennis.

My first couple seasons I played down a few levels in matches compared to practice. Now, 150+ league and tournament matches later I am a bit the opposite.

There is a woman at the club, 20 years my junior, very fit, every stroke is faster, spinnier and better than mine. (except serve) She is not on any league teams nor done any tournaments. (interesting story why for some other thread) Her teaching pro has set up 3 matches against me. I have beaten her 2s and 3s every time. She has no match toughness. She has zero point construction, doesn't play percentages and when frustrated becomes overly agressive in her play. Once she starts playing "real" matches, and gains that match toughness, she will likely bagel me every time.
 
If I understand the USTA rating system correctly (and I might not, so take my comment with a grain of salt) then perhaps aiming to achieve a solid 4.5 rating might be more realistic, and yet still extremely difficult. If I were you I would set that as my first goal, and if you ever achieve it be happy. From the videos I've seen, going from 4.5 to 5.0 will be as much of a struggle as it is just getting to 4.5.
4.5 starts around the 90th percentile.
5.0 starts around the 97th percentile.
5.5 is so rare that it's hard to gauge what % it is.
Beyond that is essentially a pro.

Once you get past the fat part of the curve around 3.0/3.5, improvement gets exponentially more difficult. If it took 1 unit of effort to get to 4.0, it might take 5 units to get to 4.5 and 50 units to get to 5.0, etc.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, I don't think weights are necessary for tennis players. Especially not rec players. Might be useful during some rehab stuff I guess, but usually that stuff is due to weak supporting muscles or tendons and requires very little weight (a 2L bottle of water is probably enough lol)
Weight lifting may not be necessary for tennis players, but if you want to play into older age it is extremely helpful.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
What are you working on to try and counter his game?
My serve is definitely exploitable. So i am working on that. Its getting better so i might give him a better match.
The other thing is the surface. I am not familiar with clay. They play 6 times a week on clay. I train mostly on indoor fast court and play 1 match per week on clay. Definitely not a good idea.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Ding Ding Ding .... there is such a thing as being "seasoned" or getting match-toughness. It also allows someone to win on the court against someone with perhaps technically "better" tennis.

My first couple seasons I played down a few levels in matches compared to practice. Now, 150+ league and tournament matches later I am a bit the opposite.

There is a woman at the club, 20 years my junior, very fit, every stroke is faster, spinnier and better than mine. (except serve) She is not on any league teams nor done any tournaments. (interesting story why for some other thread) Her teaching pro has set up 3 matches against me. I have beaten her 2s and 3s every time. She has no match toughness. She has zero point construction, doesn't play percentages and when frustrated becomes overly agressive in her play. Once she starts playing "real" matches, and gains that match toughness, she will likely bagel me every time.

Im the same, of course its normal considering I don't have much match hardness..I play much better in practice and my strokes are fluid and I have a loose arm, but in matches I get a tight arm and lose RHS, lose spin, lose control etc... its the worst with my 2nd serve where I make a lot of double faults usually. But im sure its going to take a long time to get that match hardness.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
I find that there is a mental, match toughness range too. Just like physical range and limitations such as serve speed, foot speed, forehand power, people have mental limitations too.
You are not going to see a Monfils player become a Nadal mentally.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
I find that there is a mental, match toughness range too. Just like physical range and limitations such as serve speed, foot speed, forehand power, people have mental limitations too.
You are not going to see a Monfils player become a Nadal mentally.
+1

My mental limitations know no bounds in singles especially
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Anyway thanks for everyone who had great words and/or advice for me (in this thread or my older threads when I looked for feedback), and I really do appreciate the people who believe in me, I know my tennis dream is a long journey that lies ahead of me, but a beautiful one because I love tennis so deeply and its a true passion.

Also a thanks to the weakminded haters who tell me I cant achieve something and il never reach my goals, u give me extra motivation to prove you all wrong and to push that little extra 110% everytime I go play or train.

Lets do this :cool:
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
What are you working on to try and counter his game?
Definitive answer to the question of what to work on to counter a junk ballers game: Avoidance.

Life is too short to put up with one trick ponies that won't play an enjoyable game of tennis. Yes i could spend weeks learning counters to all these "special snowflakes". But the agony and annoyance wouldn't be worth it. That's why a lot of people don't play leagues. You have to put up with the oddballs that use a specialty shot they've honed in the backyard to defeat people. If you played these people all the time you'd naturally figure them out, but the league system offers them the element of surprise. And of course the encounter is so unpleasant you never add them to your tennis buddies list.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Also a thanks to the weakminded haters who tell me I cant achieve something and il never reach my goals, u give me extra motivation to prove you all wrong and to push that little extra 110% everytime I go play or train
Why are realists always called "haters" when they question the likelihood of a dreamer achieving his dreams. I don't think hate has anything to do with it. It's more a pragmatic analysis of the scenario and an odds based assessment. It's nothing personal. I don't think anyone hates you or wishes you ill will. They just don't believe in backing long shots because they rarely come in.

I mean would you support someone that said their retirement strategy was "lottery winnings".

Play tennis, try to get better, have fun. Let the NTRP fall where it may.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Definitive answer to the question of what to work on to counter a junk ballers game: Avoidance.

Life is too short to put up with one trick ponies that won't play an enjoyable game of tennis. Yes i could spend weeks learning counters to all these "special snowflakes". But the agony and annoyance wouldn't be worth it. That's why a lot of people don't play leagues. You have to put up with the oddballs that use a specialty shot they've honed in the backyard to defeat people. If you played these people all the time you'd naturally figure them out, but the league system offers them the element of surprise. And of course the encounter is so unpleasant you never add them to your tennis buddies list.

What’s an enjoyable game of tennis? The idea of playing tennis is to try and beat your opponent not make it enjoyable for him. I thought the idea is to make your opponent uncomfortable and to throw them off with whatever works. Wether that be coming into net often, or pounding their backhand or driving them back and then hitting drop shots.

Every opponent is different and it’s always a challenge to figure out what combination of shots is effective against that player. When I started playing league tennis the first thing I found out is most all players are very consistent and they are not going to beat themselves. Their also not going to try and blast shots all the time and make a bunch of errors. So it’s a tough game and I found I have to grind it out until I find a combination that will work.

In my winter league I played in I went 5-1 and I had some opponents complaining like you are about not hitting consistent pace and using chips and drop shots. I just figured well they are just poor losers. When I drive a looping topspin shot deep and they start playing well behind the baseline I’m going to hit a dropper. It’s no different than baseball you hit it where they ain’t.

This is the first sport I’ve played in where the opponents will complain a lot about the opponents style so much. Regardless of the style if you can’t beat it then your opponent was better on that day. It would be like playing baseball and telling the pitcher you only want to see fastballs because you can’t hit curve balls well.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Why are realists always called "haters" when they question the likelihood of a dreamer achieving his dreams. I don't think hate has anything to do with it. It's more a pragmatic analysis of the scenario and an odds based assessment. It's nothing personal. I don't think anyone hates you or wishes you ill will. They just don't believe in backing long shots because they rarely come in.

I mean would you support someone that said their retirement strategy was "lottery winnings".

Play tennis, try to get better, have fun. Let the NTRP fall where it may.
Im not talking about people who are sceptical and think it might not be possible or very unlikely, but people who blatantly say someone will never reach x thing and its impossible and laugh at the person.

Nobody can tell someone else what they can or cant do, and tell them hey u will never do that just quit ur no good. It ignorant imo and I would call those people haters, mostly people who dont achieve their goals in life and then they mock and laugh at other peoples goals.

Would you not agree with my assesement?
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Why are realists always called "haters" when they question the likelihood of a dreamer achieving his dreams. I don't think hate has anything to do with it. It's more a pragmatic analysis of the scenario and an odds based assessment. It's nothing personal. I don't think anyone hates you or wishes you ill will. They just don't believe in backing long shots because they rarely come in.

I mean would you support someone that said their retirement strategy was "lottery winnings".

Play tennis, try to get better, have fun. Let the NTRP fall where it may.

This is a good post and very accurate. Nobody’s hating just trying to give some advice and who knows maybe this guy can make 5.0 and I hope he does. But it’s much much harder than a lot of people think. My main suggestion is work your way up. First see how good you can do in a 3.5 league and then 4.0.

Hitting around and practice does not mean much. I’ve heard many guys say I’ve been hitting with the better 4.0 or 4.5 players and I’m doing well. That’s great but it means nothing until you can beat them in a real match.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
What’s an enjoyable game of tennis? The idea of playing tennis is to try and beat your opponent not make it enjoyable for him. I thought the idea is to make your opponent uncomfortable and to throw them off with whatever works. Wether that be coming into net often, or pounding their backhand or driving them back and then hitting drop shots.

Every opponent is different and it’s always a challenge to figure out what combination of shots is effective against that player. When I started playing league tennis the first thing I found out is most all players are very consistent and they are not going to beat themselves. Their also not going to try and blast shots all the time and make a bunch of errors. So it’s a tough game and I found I have to grind it out until I find a combination that will work.

In my winter league I played in I went 5-1 and I had some opponents complaining like you are about not hitting consistent pace and using chips and drop shots. I just figured well they are just poor losers. When I drive a looping topspin shot deep and they start playing well behind the baseline I’m going to hit a dropper. It’s no different than baseball you hit it where they ain’t.

This is the first sport I’ve played in where the opponents will complain a lot about the opponents style so much. Regardless of the style if you can’t beat it then your opponent was better on that day. It would be like playing baseball and telling the pitcher you only want to see fastballs because you can’t hit curve balls well.
People dont like to lose, but even more so they hate to lose to someone who plays "worse" than them in the sense that they hit fast shots while the other person just blocks and bunts things back and yet they lose, it drives them nuts, so they hate on the other players style because they are angry that they got beat.

Personally i think tennis is a great variety sport and creativity and smarts are underrated nowadays when 99% of players just hit baseline fhs and bhs and never anything else, and any style is cool and interesting, even if someone serves underhand or something, its interesting to see something different.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
This is a good post and very accurate. Nobody’s hating just trying to give some advice and who knows maybe this guy can make 5.0 and I hope he does. But it’s much much harder than a lot of people think. My main suggestion is work your way up. First see how good you can do in a 3.5 league and then 4.0.

Hitting around and practice does not mean much. I’ve heard many guys say I’ve been hitting with the better 4.0 or 4.5 players and I’m doing well. That’s great but it means nothing until you can beat them in a real match.
I just want to become the best that I can, reach my ceiling, no matter what that will be in the end il be happy to know i did all i could and worked hard and maximized my level.

And I appreciate people saying meh i dont think this level is possible at this stage but goodluck etc like you say, I just dislike people who tell someone ul never reach this u might aswell quit, if you know what I mean.
No matter what sport or whatever its about, dont just tell someone they will never do x, its ignorant and disrespectful, even if you think the chance is 0.00000000001%, u can never say never, even if its something even more crazy impossible, miracles sometimes happen you never know.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
People dont like to lose, but even more so they hate to lose to someone who plays "worse" than them in the sense that they hit fast shots while the other person just blocks and bunts things back and yet they lose, it drives them nuts, so they hate on the other players style because they are angry that they got beat.

Personally i think tennis is a great variety sport and creativity and smarts are underrated nowadays when 99% of players just hit baseline fhs and bhs and never anything else, and any style is cool and interesting, even if someone serves underhand or something, its interesting to see something different.

Pretty much true what your saying here. A lot of it comes down to getting the ego in check. I continually work on trying to hit more aggressive shots and I would love nothing more than be able to smash away the first shot I have time to line up.

But other than that hot day that we get once in a while that’s not going to happen and I will lose almost every time using this style. So I realize until I get a lot better I have to play solid consistent tennis if I want a chance at winning.

A couple of years ago in my spring season I said the hell with it I’m going to play grip n rip tennis and not worry about winning. Well I went like 2-5 so it didn’t work out real well but it did help me get better at attacking tennis and I’m still trying to get better at it but have a long way to go.

But some guys have egos that are much bigger than their games and think that if both players aren’t going for big shots all the time then they aren’t playing correctly. See if both guys bash the ball then whoever hits their aggressive shots at a higher % that day will win.

It’s much easier to go for big shots when both players are doing it because they will both make their share of errors. But when one guy plays a more consistent style and only goes for it on high % shots then he will usually beat the gunslinger easily and the gunslinger gets mad and calls his opponent a pusher.
 
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mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
What’s an enjoyable game of tennis? The idea of playing tennis is to try and beat your opponent not make it enjoyable for him. I thought the idea is to make your opponent uncomfortable and to throw them off with whatever works. Wether that be coming into net often, or pounding their backhand or driving them back and then hitting drop shots.

Every opponent is different and it’s always a challenge to figure out what combination of shots is effective against that player. When I started playing league tennis the first thing I found out is most all players are very consistent and they are not going to beat themselves. Their also not going to try and blast shots all the time and make a bunch of errors. So it’s a tough game and I found I have to grind it out until I find a combination that will work.

In my winter league I played in I went 5-1 and I had some opponents complaining like you are about not hitting consistent pace and using chips and drop shots. I just figured well they are just poor losers. When I drive a looping topspin shot deep and they start playing well behind the baseline I’m going to hit a dropper. It’s no different than baseball you hit it where they ain’t.

This is the first sport I’ve played in where the opponents will complain a lot about the opponents style so much. Regardless of the style if you can’t beat it then your opponent was better on that day. It would be like playing baseball and telling the pitcher you only want to see fastballs because you can’t hit curve balls well.
Well baseball has some oddities as well like you’re not supposed to bunt to beat the shift. When you do, the opposing team gets their panties all in a bunch.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Well baseball has some oddities as well like you’re not supposed to bunt to beat the shift. When you do, the opposing team gets their panties all in a bunch.
This is true there can be complaining in any sport but tennis seems to be the worst.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
There are no style points in tennis. Don't get it mixed up with another sport.

 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
This is true there can be complaining in any sport but tennis seems to be the worst.
Baseball has MANY crazy unwritten rules! :)

Don’t flip your bat after hitting a home run. If you do, you are showing up the opposing pitcher so prepare to get beaned on your next at bat. Huh???
 
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ubercat

Professional
Basically if yr in a CC FH rally can smash. And of course if u get a short ball above net on FH. Everything else is normally running guy around so that u get that shot.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
No 1 4.0 player in my club is a slice/dropshot junk baller with a good serve. I couldn't win a set off him yet and i am 10 years younger haha.
I played a league match against a guy who only sliced once (on grass) i found loopy balls he hated. It would be hard to slice on really high balls i think
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
Most players fall 0.5-1.0 NTRP once they play formal matches until they can deal with playing under pressure. Just saying.
NTRP rankings are based on Wins/Loss records in formal matches, which are played under pressure. So you can't fall from that. Your record accurately states your ranking. What does fall during formal matches are bogus rankings that people who casually hit among friends confer upon themselves.
 
Definitive answer to the question of what to work on to counter a junk ballers game: Avoidance.

Life is too short to put up with one trick ponies that won't play an enjoyable game of tennis. Yes i could spend weeks learning counters to all these "special snowflakes". But the agony and annoyance wouldn't be worth it. That's why a lot of people don't play leagues. You have to put up with the oddballs that use a specialty shot they've honed in the backyard to defeat people. If you played these people all the time you'd naturally figure them out, but the league system offers them the element of surprise. And of course the encounter is so unpleasant you never add them to your tennis buddies list.
I'm of a different view: I want to pick up those skills to deal with every kind of style. I enjoy league and tournaments and I can't choose my opponent. Therefore, I want the tools to do the job and am willing to put in the work to acquire them.
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
I'm of a different view: I want to pick up those skills to deal with every kind of style. I enjoy league and tournaments and I can't choose my opponent. Therefore, I want the tools to do the job and am willing to put in the work to acquire them.
I used to hate junk ballers and lob queens. But now I'm like " Bring it!" Yes trading strong baseline rallies is a blast, but I want to learn how to deal with everything. The junk ballers and lob queens only exposed my own weakness of inconsistencies. Now I welcome them so I can show I can consistently deal with anything that is thrown at me.
 
I'm of a different view: I want to pick up those skills to deal with every kind of style. I enjoy league and tournaments and I can't choose my opponent. Therefore, I want the tools to do the job and am willing to put in the work to acquire them.
I actually enjoy playing slicers because I get more opportunities that way to practice my slice and see if it's actually working as well as I want to it. It's a change from the same old baseline pattern. Once played an oldie with a swirling slice that was so hard to deal with the first time around. All the more satisfying when I was able to tackle it the next time I played him.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
I used to hate junk ballers and lob queens. But now I'm like " Bring it!" Yes trading strong baseline rallies is a blast, but I want to learn how to deal with everything. The junk ballers and lob queens only exposed my own weakness of inconsistencies. Now I welcome them so I can show I can consistently deal with anything that is thrown at me.
Its underrated how effective these players can be.
I was talking to a coach at the club recently about this, and he also said its interesting to him and was thinking about this a bit, how against junior competitors he can play more consistent than against much weaker players he teaches.

Those weaker players cant hurt him and he can destroy them easily, while those junior competitors have some weapons that they can hurt him with and can make the (play to 11 or so) quite tight, so in terms of the result its no suprize.

But in terms of consistency he tends to make some errors more often against those weaker players! He said he was recently thinking about it amd figured that juniors hit bombs, but their shots are very consistent.
While those weaker players hit much weaker shots but their shots are inconsistent and weird misshits and all over the place, so its a bit harder to get a rhytm going and you can more easily make a mistake like that.

Something to think about.
 
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