Played my first sandbagger - anything that can be done?

[time_fly]

We all know there are questionable self-rates all over USTA but I played my first actual sandbagger last night -- a new player who was really good but was, in my opinion, intentionally losing games to establish a lower computer rating. Of course I can't prove it, but he seemed to "spot" me a 4 game lead at the start of each set with tons of unforced errors and then start playing hard. I barely won the match in tiebreakers.

I found out after the match that he played one year a long time ago in the USTA as a 4.0 and recently signed back up and appealed down to 3.5. I also saw that he in his previous two matches he won the first set 6-0, lost the second set, and won the third set tiebreaker -- a different pattern of "keeping it close" but also suspicious.

Unfortunately you can strike out by winning too big, but is there anything that can be done about a sandbagger who throws games to manipulate his rating? I don't think so but I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Ronaldo]

We all know there are questionable self-rates all over USTA but I played my first actual sandbagger last night -- a new player who was really good but was, in my opinion, intentionally losing games to establish a lower computer rating. Of course I can't prove it, but he seemed to "spot" me a 4 game lead at the start of each set with tons of unforced errors and then start playing hard. I barely won the match in tiebreakers.

I found out after the match that he played one year a long time ago in the USTA as a 4.0 and recently signed back up and appealed down to 3.5. I also saw that he in his previous two matches he won the first set 6-0, lost the second set, and won the third set tiebreaker -- a different pattern of "keeping it close" but also suspicious.

Unfortunately you can strike out by winning too big, but is there anything that can be done about a sandbagger who throws games to manipulate his rating? I don't think so but I'm open to suggestions.

Hand him a pr of fins and goggles after the match?

 

[OrangePower]

We all know there are questionable self-rates all over USTA but I played my first actual sandbagger last night -- a new player who was really good but was, in my opinion, intentionally losing games to establish a lower computer rating. Of course I can't prove it, but he seemed to "spot" me a 4 game lead at the start of each set with tons of unforced errors and then start playing hard. I barely won the match in tiebreakers.

I found out after the match that he played one year a long time ago in the USTA as a 4.0 and recently signed back up and appealed down to 3.5. I also saw that he in his previous two matches he won the first set 6-0, lost the second set, and won the third set tiebreaker -- a different pattern of "keeping it close" but also suspicious.

Unfortunately you can strike out by winning too big, but is there anything that can be done about a sandbagger who throws games to manipulate his rating? I don't think so but I'm open to suggestions.

If he was a sandbagger trying to manage he would have won one of the set TBs then beat you in match TB. Similar impact on rating plus gets the win.
So probably not a sandbagger just inconsistent due to lack of play.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

If he was a sandbagger trying to manage he would have won one of the set TBs then beat you in match TB. Similar impact on rating plus gets the win.
So probably not a sandbagger just inconsistent due to lack of play.

Exactly what I was thinking.

@time_fly - another option is to just embrace the challenge of a more=skilled player. It was a hard-fought match, right?

 

[time_fly]

If he was a sandbagger trying to manage he would have won one of the set TBs then beat you in match TB. Similar impact on rating plus gets the win.
So probably not a sandbagger just inconsistent due to lack of play.

He won the first set, I won the second set TB and third set TB. With this loss he is 2-2 on the season.

 

[VexlanderPrime]

If he was a sandbagger trying to manage he would have won one of the set TBs then beat you in match TB. Similar impact on rating plus gets the win.
So probably not a sandbagger just inconsistent due to lack of play.

Yup, my thoughts exactly

 

[VexlanderPrime]

Exactly what I was thinking.

@time_fly - another option is to just embrace the challenge of a more=skilled player. It was a hard-fought match, right?

This is also great advice OP. So maybe he should a tier above, you're actually blessed to play better competition and you'll improve faster than if you just farmed players below your level.

 

[time_fly]

I'm happy to play against 4.0s. Many of my friends are 4.0s and I play sets against them all the time. This guy has a 4.5 game half the time and a 3.0 game half the time. The shots he made when he was on were phenomenal. What bugs me is (a) I can't feel good win because I feel like he was handing me games, and (b) if I am going to play a 4.0 win I'd like the credit for it. According to the USTA I just beat a beginner 3.5 and he was definitely not that.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I'm happy to play against 4.0s. Many of my friends are 4.0s and I play sets against them all the time. This guy has a 4.5 game half the time and a 3.0 game half the time. The shots he made when he was on were phenomenal. What bugs me is (a) I can't feel good win because I feel like he was handing me games, and (b) if I am going to play a 4.0 win I'd like the credit for it. According to the USTA I just beat a beginner 3.5 and he was definitely not that.

If you had to play only this one person for every USTA match, I could see not being happy. But since you'll play dozens and dozens of other opponents, some of whom may think you are sandbagging, why worry?

 

[norcal]

If he is really a 4.5 pretending to be a 3.5 the only emotion you should feel is pity for how sad his life must be.

 

[OrangePower]

He won the first set, I won the second set TB and third set TB. With this loss he is 2-2 on the season.

Even more reason he's not a sandbagger. A sandbagger would have won the third set tie breaker against you. Or are you saying that you are that good that you are essentially a sandbagger yourself. Does not compute...

 

[time_fly]

If he is really a 4.5 pretending to be a 3.5 the only emotion you should feel is pity for how sad his life must be.

I don't think he's a 4.5 pretending to be a 3.5. I think he has 4.5 caliber shots, probably played Div 3 college or at least was a very strong HS player, but can't execute on them consistently now. I think he's a 4.0 who is under-confident and wants to ease his way back into tennis--and maybe help out his local club which is really struggling in USTA 3.5 right now--by playing down and he wants to make sure he earns a 3.5C rating. I can't reconcile the technique and execution that I saw in the games he played well versus the ones where he played badly without thinking he was tanking. As for my winning the third set tiebreak 11-9, it was probably a mistake. In a tiebreaker anything can happen, and like I said I think SOME of his inconsistency was genuine. I do take sets off my 4.0 friends on a good day, and my "guess-timated" dynamic NTRP if you believe in such things is right up around 3.5 on the nose.

 

[beernutz]

He won the first set, I won the second set TB and third set TB. With this loss he is 2-2 on the season.

Then he is not a sandbagger since he ended up winning more games than you and still lost the match. By winning more games his dynamic rating is going to go up, especially against a strong player. Why would he let his rating go up and still lose?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Then he is not a sandbagger since he ended up winning more games than you and still lost the match. By winning more games his dynamic rating is going to go up, especially against a strong player. Why would he let his rating go up and still lose?

Maybe he's not a very good sandbagger?

 

[OnTheLine]

There is a difference between well-executed pretty shots and knowing how to play a match to win it.

There are people out there with great looking shots. They have nearly all the shots, and usually execute them well. BUT, they have no capability of actually winning a match, constructing points, playing the mental side of the game. When I was a rating-clinic judged 4.0 then a 4.5 I had an 0 and something record. (back in the rating clinic days) It all looked great, but I had no idea how to put it all together to actually win a match!

There are lots of us out there. We may look like sandbaggers somedays. But the only thing that matters is the W/L in Tennislink. If it LOOKS like a 4.0/4.5 but can't win, then its a 3.5 who is trying to learn how to win.

Tennis is much more than the pretty, well-executed shot. From the description of someone who lost not one but 2 tiebreakers in a match, sounds like someone trying to figure out the mental side of the game. Not an easy thing to learn for many.

 

[ToastyTilapia]

I'm happy to play against 4.0s. Many of my friends are 4.0s and I play sets against them all the time. This guy has a 4.5 game half the time and a 3.0 game half the time. The shots he made when he was on were phenomenal. What bugs me is (a) I can't feel good win because I feel like he was handing me games, and (b) if I am going to play a 4.0 win I'd like the credit for it. According to the USTA I just beat a beginner 3.5 and he was definitely not that.

Sounds like me LOL. I'm capable of hitting 4 120+mph aces in a row or double faulting games away. I can go from playing like a 5.5 to a 3.5 in a matter of minutes. But I'm getting better - been working on my consistency and conditioning (a lot) lately. Also went back to an old racquet that I'm more consistent with on serve.

 

[OrangePower]

Sounds like me LOL. I'm capable of hitting 4 120+mph aces in a row or double faulting games away.

Eh, it's a well known fact that every 3.5 here on TTW can serve at 120mph.

 

[Gazelle]

Sounds like me LOL. I'm capable of hitting 4 120+mph aces in a row or double faulting games away. I can go from playing like a 5.5 to a 3.5 in a matter of minutes. But I'm getting better - been working on my consistency and conditioning (a lot) lately. Also went back to an old racquet that I'm more consistent with on serve.

Erm now don't exaggerate.

 

[edathompson2]

I hate when I play a sandbagger who is playing WAY out of his level and I beat him.

 

[Ronaldo]

I hate when I play a sandbagger who is playing WAY out of his level and I beat him.

Sandbagger, stay in yo lane!

 

[Traffic]

My experience in adult league is far less than Junior. But my son has a friend that plays a lot of Champs tournaments. Yet, he loses so many matches. When you see him play, he has great serves, great shot selection, great mechanics. But he'll be going on a 12 hit rally against a great opponent and then lose the point from a really silly UE. Or he builds the point so well, then can't close it; Again, silly UE. You may think that he is totally faking the UE. But it's real.

I feel like the friend would beat my son in a close match. But my son has actually run into him during a tournament and won bagels.

 

[TenS_Ace]

Sounds like me LOL. I'm capable of hitting 4 120+mph aces in a row .

Cough cough..b_u_l_l_c_h_i_t