Players don't want to play a match.

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by LGQ7, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    I went to a Meetup group, all Meetup groups are doubles. There were a lot problems before playing due to the lack of available courts. After those problems were resolved, here is the other problem. There were 7 people. 4 went to play doubles, that's fine, I prefer singles. There are now 3 left. I came on the court first. I tell 1 guy, we'll count like ping-pong to 21, 20-20 is a draw (the game would lasts an average of 17 minutes), then we'll rotate. He says "I don't want to play singles." He way he looked speaks more that what he said. I realized that playing doubles for him is like a zebra disappearing in a crowd of zebras. Playing singles forces you to stand out, on your own. I said the same thing to the other guy. Same thing. "I don't want to play singles, I just want to hit." The first guy says, "Well it's 2 to 1." So they proceeded to hit around with each other, ignoring me.

    I was flabbergasted. I come from a chess background. We are here to play chess. We are here to play a chess game. I quit that Meetup that day, and I made my own singles tennis Meetup club that day.

    Your thoughts?
     
    #1
  2. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    What kind of a dress code will there be? Can bags be put on the benches for singles?
     
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  3. Max G.

    Max G. Legend

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    They should have really included you in the casual hitting, that wasn't nice. Unless you didn't want to hit and only wanted to play points.
     
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  4. WYK

    WYK Professional

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    If you want to play singles, don't hang around with folks that don't want to play singles? Sounds like you've answered your own question. The world is full of people. Precious few of them have our own opinions. Find your niche. Don't begrudge others.
     
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  5. Moveforwardalways

    Moveforwardalways Hall of Fame

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    They were probably trying to follow social cues and do the socially acceptable thing, which is to not exclude someone. They both came to a meetup where they don't know anyone and are trying make friends, and also to hit tennis balls. Now you are suggesting one of them gets excluded for a half hour, then the next one after that. That's no way to meet people or make friends. If I was there, I would have suggested we all three hit together as well.
     
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  6. stapletonj

    stapletonj Professional

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    canadian doubles? I know, half-*ssed game, but better than nothing....
     
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  7. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Ah, doubles!

    Hmm, you join a meetup group for doubles but you prefer singles, ok........

    Well then doubles -1 it will be!

    What the heck? It's a bloody meetup for doubles!

    Well it looks like you did get the memo and refused to read it as well!

    Tennis is not chess!

    I would work on your social skills and try to fit in next time!

    :D
     
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  8. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Wow, you ran into the worst case scenario, a disfunctional MEET UP GROUP to play tennis--but someone forgot to reserve tennis courts! Next time bring some chess boards while waiting for the courts to materialize--you can form your own meet-up--call it "TENNIS & CHESS MEETUP".

    Your "ping-pong" idea is what we call here a "custom game"--there was a thread about it recently--it went over like a ton of bricks--no one liked the idea, except the OP.

    Personally, I like the idea of just hitting to warm-up for the doubles to open up--it takes me a set to warm-up--most rec players are just starting to get calibrated by the time they finish two sets and starting to play decent tennis--then they go to the bar. I always keep a bag of balls in the trunk for opportunities like this to practice my serve.

    Maybe being naked put them off??? The main thing is--were there any hot women there?
     
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  9. samarai

    samarai Rookie

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    i only play doubles. dont like to play singles. how is that wrong.
     
    #9
  10. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    6 women?
     
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  11. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    +1
    in a two on one situation... we usually just play king of the court... there's alot of moving, and plenty of hitting, and it's very competitive.
    no one left out.

    fyi to OP, you could even play king of the court with 4 people... which then focuses on singles skills... similarly lots of hitting for everyone.
     
    #11
  12. Traffic

    Traffic Hall of Fame

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    Maybe if you offered to play tie break to 7.
    Or a set up to 4games.

    Many people like to play doubles because they don't have to run as much.
     
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  13. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    key IMO, is to be the guy on the singles side...
    if they want to just hit around, then fine, you get to hit twice as many balls.
    (presuming you're at least their level - and they aren't just being nice letting you hit with them, by giving you a subtle clue).
     
    #13
  14. pabletion

    pabletion Hall of Fame

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    "I quit that Meetup that day, and I made my own singles tennis Meetup club that day."

    My thoughts. No thoughts. You did what you should've done. End of story.

    Why stay in a group where no one wants what you want, and you're not up for altering what you want? New group/crew.

    My advice: find people who want to play singles and enjoy competition, start a whatsapp group, arrange matchces. Exactly what I did, found a group of guys, some with similar levels, others with lower levels but who love to compete, and were playing matches regularly. We are 15 guys as of now, the idea is to play everyone and establish a ranking, then mate 2-3 groups, round robin, then a bracket tournament. We dont need anyone setting up anything or arranging matches, were doing it ourselves. Its working great. Matches every week, great fun and the most important thing (for me) high level, competitive matches.
     
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  15. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    Mathematics.

    1, you can't with with 1 person. "One is the loneliest number . . . "
    2, you can play, "It takes 2 to Tango."
    3, so forth
    Everything depends on how many people show up.

    From 2 people to 8 people, that's 7 possibilities. Only 2 possibilities allow you to play doubles, 4 and 8. 2/7 you can play doubles easily, 5/7 says you can't. That's what wrong with wanting to only play doubles.

    The Count on Sesame Street taught me that.
     
    #15
  16. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    Yes, I only wanted to play points.
     
    #16
  17. Max G.

    Max G. Legend

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    All the mathematical issues don't force you to play points rather than just rallying.
     
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  18. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    Childish logic. To include is to also exclude. To add is to also to subtract. Let's say you have 50 weight lifting routines. Adding 50 more means you are doing the 100 routines only half as much.

    Playing 3 man on a court, I've heard it call Canadian, Australian, whatever, is NO difference than rotating 3 person. There is NO difference between rotating singles and playing doubles. I call playing doubles "tag team wrestling".

    "Now you are suggesting one of them gets excluded for a half hour"

    17 minutes.
     
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  19. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    And vice versa.
     
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  20. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    OP, you're right. What you encountered isn't uncommon at all.

    I think these are possible explanations: they don't know how to play singles and/or were afraid of getting their pride hurt in the process. Singles is a different skill set and work ethic. I know a lot of very good doubles players, ie move well, hit well, volley, etc. that look like deers in headlight in singles. And, many of them don't want to exert effort beyond a certain line in their mind.

    I wouldn't worry about these people. After a while you should find a way to adapt. If they prefer to rally, adjust your mindset to treat every shot from them as in game and play back. Hit to corner when you have a chance. You can race against yourself and/or against them without telling them. See who quits first, if you are into competition -- nothing wrong with this since it's the very heart of sports!

    Re playing custom games, you can't go far with strangers. It's hard enough to find good sports, good attitude people to play regular games, let alone custom games. However, these custom games are completely possible among friends and probably the only things that level the field in the very uneven recreational tennis world. I know a lot of guys who aren't interested in horsing around (rallying, playing 6-0 sets) with low level players. They need to come up with 1 vs 2, 2 vs 3 (as not to exclude the 5th guy), advance points, etc to everyone serious about competing.

    I play with quite a lot of over 60 years old men. NOT possible at all to do regular games, doubles or singles.
     
    #20
  21. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    How is tennis NOT chess?

    When I first play chess, I notice the artificiality of I move then you move, then I move. In the real world 2 people can move any time they want, like in boxing (back to that). Funny, there is a game where it's just like that, tennis, I move then you move, then I move. Even in boxing, it also like that, attack-defense, defense-attack, attack-evade, evade-attack. Punching and counter-punching. It is as if they are taking turns.
     
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  22. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Oh boy, are you serious?

    Sure thing.....

    [​IMG]

    :D
     
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  23. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    Bingo. Like in dance, you can disappear in the corp (background dancer), or have to stand out as a soloist. In acting, some actors prefer to be in the supporting cast, it's easier than being the star, who has to carry the show.
     
    #23
  24. Max G.

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    The relevant difference is that in chess, you have to have a competition for it to make sense. Moving the pieces around without trying to win is pointless.

    But when playing tennis, the physical aspect remains whether you're trying to win or not. You're still using all the same muscles, still doing basically the same movements, the difference being whether you aim to hit the ball to the part of the court the opponent can reach or can't.
     
    #24
  25. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    I notice that overwhelming majority of doubles players, when they lose, blame their partners, the other teams or something else other than themselves.

    Measured defense mechanism is ok but I was so surprised at the prevalence and intensity of this "other blaming" among people. After a while I got used to it. When directed at me I just nod in agreement with them. In a way I see it as flattering as my partners think highly of my skill and expect more (but I couldn't deliver).

    I think that's one of the big reasons why people prefer doubles.
     
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  26. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    Perfect. Just perfect. I was waiting for somebody to say this. As I said, I come from a chess background, "Moving the pieces around without trying to win is pointless."

    And I do know what you mean by the second part, before you said it.

    MMA is like chess, moving around is like dance. When's the last time you see a ballet "LIVE ONLY ON PER-PER-VIEW"? As Jim Cornette always says "If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense."

     
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  27. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Hall of Fame

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    I guess what stands out to me is that you chose to show up to a group specifically formed to play doubles, when you preferred to play singles.

    I don't care to play "Canadian/3 people tennis", but for a new group I will do it knowing that things can and will change. Maybe an 8th person will show up. Maybe 2 of you 3 can rotate in with the other court. Maybe the 2 are willing to play vs you playing the singles side. Or maybe, you really don't fit in with that group. :rolleyes:

    For me, given a choice between playing some 17 minute game (??) or playing Canadian, I'll choose Canadian. Best case scenario is an 8th person shows up. Next best scenario is someone doesn't like playing Canadian and leaves.
     
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  28. Max G.

    Max G. Legend

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    Rec tennis doesn't make dollars regardless of whether you play doubles, singles, just rally, or just leave without doing anything. Guess it all doesn't make sense!
     
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  29. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Hall of Fame

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    I don't mind if people don't want to play singles. But you should have offered them Australian doubles (What you call Canadian or King of the Court in America). If they didn't want to rotate then I'd just take them on as the singles vs doubles but require them to only have one serve.

    The other option would have been to try to find a fourth. Often there is some guy just hitting or waiting you can solicit.

    You wandering off and them just hitting seems to be the dumbest solution to the problem.
     
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  30. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I would be upset too. Clearly you came to play chess and there were a bunch of jerks with tennis racquets and balls ruining everything.

    I sincerely hope you reported them to the police.
     
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  31. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    Good one. Bravo!

    But I am a chess player. I am always one move ahead. In theory, I can turn my Meetup tennis club into a money making enterprise. Objectively, it is a better workout for the MILFs crowd who spend $20/hour or $100/month on something like Barre Fitness.
     
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  32. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    [​IMG]

    :D
     
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  33. Toyo

    Toyo Rookie

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    Meetup groups in general can be quite cliquey and some might have a difficult time fitting in with the regulars. The best thing to do is talk to the Organizer and have him/her decide who plays with who on which court. That's what they are there for. Going to a doubles meetup with limited court space wanting to play only singles is often looked upon as selfish or not wanting to be a team player.

    As others have suggested earlier, the most logical option would have been to play "Canadian Rules" with the other two. You would play singles on one side using the singles lines and the other two would be using the doubles lines. But here again, that should have the call for the Organizer to make.

    One other thing is that meetup groups often have players of varying skill levels. I don't know what your skill level is but perhaps there was a big difference in levels between you and the other two players who proceeded to hit on their own?
     
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  34. Toyo

    Toyo Rookie

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    Most people join meetup groups because they are free. Do you mind sending us a link to your group?
     
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  35. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    Can't. I like my anonymity. Besides, Earth is big planet. My Meetup is only in my city. The unique features of my meetup:

    The Chinese chess set is the logo.
    It is made for singles tennis.
    The format is 3 man rotation (so you can take a break).
    Counting is ping-pong, 21, 20-20 is a draw.
    It is played after sunset, so the sun doesn't get into my eyes.
    9 players is the maximum at one time.
    We'll play above 50° F.
    The balls are kept in a 15 psi chamber.
    It is run EXACTLY like a chess club. Everyone is on the Elo Rating System.


    That's pretty much what my tennis (chess) club is all about.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
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  36. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    Good detective work. The Organizer wasn't there that day.
     
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  37. Toyo

    Toyo Rookie

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    Ok, I understand, but I'm just curious as to how you intend to make this group into a "money making enterprise"? Are the courts that you play on free to the public or do you plan on renting courts and passing on the rental fee to the members to be split?
     
    #37
  38. LGQ7

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    I said "in theory".

    But you are thinking in the right direction. You have to OWN the court.

    you work in a country club as a tennis director
    you build your own court.
    you rent courts
    use courts at your own apartment
    use public courts
     
    #38
  39. r2473

    r2473 G.O.A.T.

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    Looks like you got outflanked.
     
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  40. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    Really, whiney little biatches. Pretty simple play 5 points then rotate in. Instead of 2 serves allow only 1 serve. The 5 points go pretty fast. Or you can simply start out at 30 all or 30-15, however you want. Can't imagine just wanting to hit.
     
    #40
  41. vex

    vex Rookie

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    Sounds like you're new to tennis. Meetup people are there to have fun not prove anything in singles. 99% of them prefer doubles. From a wider perspective a good chunk of tennis players prefer or only play doubles due to many many reasons. You can easily find singles action, don't fault these doubles folks for not bending to u
     
    #41
  42. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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  43. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    I have 10 years of experience in ping-pong before I picked up a tennis racket. I have over 20 years of experience playing tennis. Of that first 10 years of tennis, we were playing for money, $5 a game counting to 21. I have 30 years of experience playing chess.

    Sports is competitive by nature. Baby lions play fight to learn to real fight.

    Mathematics again, in a group there is a thing called "the lowest common denominator". To order my singles club, I use the Elo Equation, invented by a physicist and a chess player in one person. The Elo Equation is the equation the guys were looking for in the movie "The Social Network."

    How do people learn to play tennis? In a singles setting or in a doubles setting? The answer is singles.

    There are ZERO Meetup groups playing specifically singles tennis.

    I am about to read On The Wealth of Nations, by P. J. O'Rourke (there's an audio-book). Yes, people are free to choose in a free market. But there are things that are SUPERIOR to other things. Opera is superior to all other forms of vocalists, all vocalists learn opera. Ballet is superior to all forms of dancing, even break-dancing which is a recent invention, which came and went.

    I truly believe once I get my group rolling, it will be the #1 tennis club in the area. It's a foregone conclusion. It was invented in chess, soon everyone will know what it is.

    Sylvester Stallone says that boxing is a metaphor for life. Competing, wining and losing is a metaphor for life. That's why it's call re-creat-ion. I'm recreating the elements of life in tennis.
     
    #43
  44. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    Sounds like you are new to life, like you were born yesterday. What is life, fundamentally?

    A cat and a mouse.

    A cat will chase a mouse, kills the mouse and eats the mouse. If the cat catches the mouse, the mouse dies.

    If the mouse runs faster than the cat, runs zig zag or through tight places, and runs away from the cat,
    the cat dies . . . of starvation.

    That is life. Any questions? Class is dismissed.
     
    #44
  45. vex

    vex Rookie

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    Ur trolling is boring, sorry to tell you bro
     
    #45
  46. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Pick your choice:

    o Troll
    o Smoking something really strong
    o All the above

    :D
     
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  47. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    Raise your hand if know that cats eat mice and not Meo Mix or Purina.
     
    #47
  48. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    That's why the Roman emperors built the Coliseum. It was built in the time of peace and civilization. The Romans invented cities and easy living. It was built to remind the citizens what life used to be, so they don't forget.

    Thank goodness, in American football, they still call it Coliseum, just in case you forgot. (Watch Gladiator).
     
    #48
  49. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    How about that, they also call it Coliseum in tennis.

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/04/10/atp-memphis-open-nassau-coliseum/
     
    #49
  50. PMChambers

    PMChambers Hall of Fame

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    Didn't read it all but this is what we do when we have 7.
    There are usually two who want singles so they play singles or practice drills, whatever turns them on and is legal.
    The remaining 5 play doubles, one sits out. The server comes off. Everyone rotates Duece return, Advantage Return, Servers partner, Server and finally off.
    This way you play all positions, your never off very long and if you don't funk around you go through games fast. No drinks during rotation only dude {we're dudes} can get a drink. Only issue is we tend to pick the better end for Rh Server, so lefty at a disadvantage.
    After singles finish a set which if 6-4 the doubles would have played 15 games as faster, no stoppages quicker to get balls.
    Other option is obviously play 4 & 3.
     
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