Players Murray dealt better with than the Big3

[Lew II]

5+ matches only:

VS TSONGA

Murray 14-2
Djokovic 17-6
Nadal 8-4
Federer 11-6

VS ISNER

Murray 8-0
Nadal 7-0
Djokovic 9-2
Federer 6-2

VS TROICKI

Murray 8-0
Federer 2-0
Djokovic 13-1
Nadal 5-1

VS MELZER

Murray 7-0
Federer 4-1
Djokovic/Nadal 3-1

VS KARLOVIC

Murray 7-0
Nadal 5-0
Federer 13-1
Djokovic 1-2

VS SOUSA

Murray 7-0
Djokovic 6-0
Nadal 2-0
Federer 1-0

VS GOFFIN

Murray 6-0
Federer 7-1
Djokovic 5-1
Nadal 3-1

VS MULLER

Murray 6-0
Federer 5-0
Djokovic 4-0
Nadal 4-2

VS BENNETEAU

Murray 5-0
Djokovic 6-1
Federer 6-2
Nadal 3-1

VS KYRGIOS

Murray 5-1
Federer 3-1
Nadal 3-3
Djokovic 0-2

 

[travlerajm]

I see a trend. Murray is the best first-serve returner of all time.

His forehand in particular is underrated. It is not a big offensive weapon, but it is arguably the best defensive forehand of all time.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

It's a bit stretching when in some cases big 3 players are undefeated against certain opponents but have one or so win less.

 

[tennis_pro]

A solid 3/10 thread.

 

[Towser83]

Some of these are a bit misleading though, like vs sousa they all have a 100% record it's just that Murray played him more. How can they help that? Theres others like that too

 

[Deon Sanders]

A list of some of the biggest mugs in the game

Muggy, King of Mugs

 

[Mainad]

Some of these are a bit misleading though, like vs sousa they all have a 100% record it's just that Murray played him more. How can they help that? Theres others like that too

Ah, but Murray played him more because he was more confident against him than the other 3.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

A list of some of the biggest mugs in the game

Muggy, King of Mugs

 

[Towny]

And the purpose of this thread is...

 

[Mainad]

5+ matches only:

VS TSONGA

Murray 14-2
Djokovic 17-6
Nadal 8-4
Federer 11-6

VS ISNER

Murray 8-0
Nadal 7-0
Djokovic 9-2
Federer 6-2

VS TROICKI

Murray 8-0
Federer 2-0
Djokovic 13-1
Nadal 5-1

VS MELZER

Murray 7-0
Federer 4-1
Djokovic/Nadal 3-1

VS KARLOVIC

Murray 7-0
Nadal 5-0
Federer 13-1
Djokovic 1-2

VS SOUSA

Murray 7-0
Djokovic 6-0
Nadal 2-0
Federer 1-0

VS GOFFIN

Murray 6-0
Federer 7-1
Djokovic 5-1
Nadal 3-1

VS MULLER

Murray 6-0
Federer 5-0
Djokovic 4-0
Nadal 4-2

VS BENNETEAU

Murray 5-0
Djokovic 6-1
Federer 6-2
Nadal 3-1

VS KYRGIOS

Murray 5-1
Federer 3-1
Nadal 3-3
Djokovic 0-2

So many mugs......so little time!

 

[Lew II]

Some of these are a bit misleading though, like vs sousa they all have a 100% record it's just that Murray played him more. How can they help that? Theres others like that too

1-0 is objectively better than 0-0, there's no way around it.

 

[Mainad]

And the purpose of this thread is...

.....to remind us all of what we have lost!

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

And the purpose of this thread is...

 

[Towny]

.....to remind us all of what we have lost!

It will indeed be a sad day when he is gone for good. A true legend of the sport. But perhaps remembering his Wimbledon runs would be a better measure of his greatness compared to his H2H against Melzer!

 

[Towser83]

1-0 is objectively better than 0-0, there's no way around it.

That's not dealing with someone better, its playing them more. You're saying if I played someone at tennis and won and you never even played them, that I dealt with them better? No, you never dealt with them at all.

If one player had a 2-0 h2h with both matches being 7-6 0-6 7-6 and someone else played them once and won 6-0 6-0 I'd say the second death with them better

 

[Lew II]

That's not dealing with someone better, its playing them more. You're saying if I played someone at tennis and won and you never even played them, that I dealt with them better? No, you never dealt with them at all.

If one player had a 2-0 h2h with both matches being 7-6 0-6 7-6 and someone else played them once and won 6-0 6-0 I'd say the second death with them better

Beating someone more times is a more difficult task, so it's dealing better with him for me.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that 8-0 or 7-0 are better than 13-1 (vs Troicki and Karlovic). But it's a higher winning percentage.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Beating someone more times is a more difficult task, so it's dealing better with him for me.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that 8-0 or 7-0 are better than 13-1.

Draws control how many times a player faces a certain player

 

[Towser83]

Beating someone more times is a more difficult task, so it's dealing better with him for me.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that 8-0 or 7-0 are better than 13-1 (vs Troicki and Karlovic). But it's a higher winning percentage.

That's like saying my great grandfather dealt with WWII better than me. While technically true it's not really worth mentioning since I never had the chance so a comparison is moot.

The difference between 6-0 and 5-0 simply proves one player played the other guy more

You look at numbers without really looking at any context behind them, which leaves gaping holes in logic

 

[tennisaddict]

You look at numbers without really looking at any context behind them, which leaves gaping holes in logic

You have to give it to @Lew II for being consistent with the bolded above

 

[Chadalina]

VS KARLOVIC

Murray 7-0
Nadal 5-0
Federer 13-1
Djokovic 1-2

VS KYRGIOS

Murray 5-1
Federer 3-1
Nadal 3-3
Djokovic 0-2

Djokovic is 1-3 vs Karlovic. Its surprising how much better Murrays return is vs big servers than Novak

 

[ghostofMecir]

I think Dominace Ratio along with won/loss records is a better way to gauge how well a player did against another when we have good-sized data sets.

VS TSONGA

Murray 14-2, .77 DR
Djokovic 17-6, .78 DR
Nadal 8-4, .93 DR
Federer 11-6, .87 DR

Yes, Tsonga did wind up beating Djokovic more but in the matches Djokovic won, he really ripped Tsonga.

VS ISNER

Murray 8-0, .72
Nadal 7-0, 62
Djokovic 9-2, .67
Federer 6-2, .66

Murray didn’t really do better than the others on his own serve (his neutralizing of serve was tremendous)

VS TROICKI

Murray 8-0, .64
Federer 2-0, .69
Djokovic 13-1, .77
Nadal 5-1, .84

Yeah, this one he was clearly the best.

VS MELZER

Murray 7-0, .69
Federer 4-1, .70
Djokovic/Nadal 3-1, .84 and .72

Again with this one he was clearly the best.

VS KARLOVIC

Murray 7-0, .75
Nadal 5-0, .76
Federer 13-1, .64
Djokovic 1-2, .98

Federer has been the best against Ivo

VS SOUSA

Murray 7-0, .63
Djokovic 6-0, .65
Nadal 2-0, .64
Federer 1-0, 59

No real difference between Djoko and Murray though one more win is nice.

VS GOFFIN

Murray 6-0, .63
Federer 7-1, .64
Djokovic 5-1, .81
Nadal 3-1, .54

VS MULLER

Murray 6-0, .71
Federer 5-0, .55
Djokovic 4-0, .74
Nadal 4-2, .79

Federer has been the best against Muller.

VS BENNETEAU

Murray 5-0, .77
Djokovic 6-1, .74
Federer 6-2, .73
Nadal 3-1, .84

Eh.

VS KYRGIOS

Murray 5-1, .73
Federer 3-1, .76
Nadal 3-3, .73
Djokovic 0-2, 1.29

Probably Murphy.

 

[Druss]

That's amazing! Never thought about it.

Must be......Mury GOAT.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Well researched article.