Playing against a non-rhythm (unorthodox) player?

[estradamme]

I've been playing tennis for about 2 years now and most of the people I've played against have strokes that are pretty close to what is considered normal so getting my rhythm going against them is not a problem, but for the first time 2 days ago I played against someone who played in such an unorthodox way that I couldn't get any rhythm at all against him. I was on my heels the entire match and just never felt comfortable. I'll try to explain the way he plays: he plays a combination of going for broke (and his shots annoyingly always seemed to snag the line or drop in) or drop shots/deep slices that barely made it over the net/dropped in at the baseline. His shots were very flat and as soon as they looked like they were about to crash into the net they somehow managed to make it over and I was unprepared. The ball also tended to just die after it landed so I had to reach for a lot of those shots and hit the majority of them into the net or shanked them well past the baseline. At first I thought I would just try to be defensive and wait for him to miss, but after a number of winners were hit against me I started to just rip the ball and when I got the ball in he either sliced them into drop shots that somehow managed to make it over the net or deep slices with side spin that went everywhere (and I really mean everywhere!). I would often get ready for a backhand and then the ball hopped to my forehand side and vice-versa.
This was the most frustrated I've been in a while. Now thinking about it I wonder if I should've just played with greater margin by putting more spin on my shots so they would jump up on him a little more. I probably also should've been staying closer to the net since I got so many drop shots. Thoughts?
Is there a certain way I should play if I play against an unorthodox player in general or is it even worth it since this was the first one I've come across thus far?

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I've been playing tennis for about 2 years now and most of the people I've played against have strokes that are pretty close to what is considered normal so getting my rhythm going against them is not a problem, but for the first time 2 days ago I played against someone who played in such an unorthodox way that I couldn't get any rhythm at all against him. I was on my heels the entire match and just never felt comfortable. I'll try to explain the way he plays: he plays a combination of going for broke (and his shots annoyingly always seemed to snag the line or drop in) or drop shots/deep slices that barely made it over the net/dropped in at the baseline. His shots were very flat and as soon as they looked like they were about to crash into the net they somehow managed to make it over and I was unprepared. The ball also tended to just die after it landed so I had to reach for a lot of those shots and hit the majority of them into the net or shanked them well past the baseline. At first I thought I would just try to be defensive and wait for him to miss, but after a number of winners were hit against me I started to just rip the ball and when I got the ball in he either sliced them into drop shots that somehow managed to make it over the net or deep slices with side spin that went everywhere (and I really mean everywhere!). I would often get ready for a backhand and then the ball hopped to my forehand side and vice-versa.
This was the most frustrated I've been in a while. Now thinking about it I wonder if I should've just played with greater margin by putting more spin on my shots so they would jump up on him a little more. I probably also should've been staying closer to the net since I got so many drop shots. Thoughts?
Is there a certain way I should play if I play against an unorthodox player in general or is it even worth it since this was the first one I've come across thus far?

i try to get alot of balls back... not going for "big" shots, until i've established my own rhythm.
these kinds of players are tough.
some do it accidently (eg. beginner).
others do it intentionally.
i know at least one 5.0 that is a master at this. you think you're gonna crush him in the warmup, then he dinks, moonballs, slice, big shot, etc...
and i drill with him regularly, and he definitely can hit big consistently, but goes out of his way not to (on every shot)

 

[Traffic]

I've been playing tennis for about 2 years now and most of the people I've played against have strokes that are pretty close to what is considered normal so getting my rhythm going against them is not a problem, but for the first time 2 days ago I played against someone who played in such an unorthodox way that I couldn't get any rhythm at all against him. I was on my heels the entire match and just never felt comfortable. I'll try to explain the way he plays: he plays a combination of going for broke (and his shots annoyingly always seemed to snag the line or drop in) or drop shots/deep slices that barely made it over the net/dropped in at the baseline. His shots were very flat and as soon as they looked like they were about to crash into the net they somehow managed to make it over and I was unprepared. The ball also tended to just die after it landed so I had to reach for a lot of those shots and hit the majority of them into the net or shanked them well past the baseline. At first I thought I would just try to be defensive and wait for him to miss, but after a number of winners were hit against me I started to just rip the ball and when I got the ball in he either sliced them into drop shots that somehow managed to make it over the net or deep slices with side spin that went everywhere (and I really mean everywhere!). I would often get ready for a backhand and then the ball hopped to my forehand side and vice-versa.
This was the most frustrated I've been in a while. Now thinking about it I wonder if I should've just played with greater margin by putting more spin on my shots so they would jump up on him a little more. I probably also should've been staying closer to the net since I got so many drop shots. Thoughts?
Is there a certain way I should play if I play against an unorthodox player in general or is it even worth it since this was the first one I've come across thus far?

I agree with @nytennisaddict that this type of player might do it accidentally or is a master at it. Sounds more like the latter than the former.

The latter player can actually hit very well. But chooses to mix things up and move you around the court and expend as little energy as possible. You think that you are better during warm-up and many of the rallies it appears that he is just getting by. But the reality is that he is trying to see how far he can push you. To them, it would be no fun to just sit at baseline trading groundstrokes. You're not going to beat this player. They are a much higher level player than what it looks like on the surface. Just admire their speed, control and strategy and possibly work on something you saw that you really liked and move on.

My son's #1 player on his varsity team is a master at this. I've actually tried to adopt a few of his techniques into my own game and at my lower adult league level, is quite effective. The slice lob and slice forehand and also a pushing BH lob. They seem like desperation strokes, but when returned in the right manner makes it 20% harder to return cleanly.

The former, however, you should be able to play consistently with long rallies. If you are making a lot of UE, then you know what you have to work on. Patience and getting your strokes in cleanly and consistently.

 

[estradamme]

i try to get alot of balls back... not going for "big" shots, until i've established my own rhythm.
these kinds of players are tough.
some do it accidently (eg. beginner).
others do it intentionally.
i know at least one 5.0 that is a master at this. you think you're gonna crush him in the warmup, then he dinks, moonballs, slice, big shot, etc...
and i drill with him regularly, and he definitely can hit big consistently, but goes out of his way not to (on every shot)

I agree. He frustrated the crap out of me. I recently got some info on him from someone who had played against him before, I found out he has been playing for around 3 years, 1 year longer than me so I feel not quite as bad now. I still don't want to lose to him if there is a next time and I'm therefore determined to be better at handling these weird shots. It almost seems unethical for someone to play like this, but there's nothing in the rules that prohibits it, so it's just annoying. I feel like I need to have one of my friends try to play me like this so I get some more practice.

 

[Traffic]

@estradamme , I had to play on a court with a pusher and some very erratic players. It used to really bother me to play against these guys. But what I realized is that was a weakness I had in my own game. That I was only used to playing a certain pace and I couldn't adapt. One of the ways I was able to get passed this was to consider this match like a reflex drill. Basically be ready for ANYTHING. Lots of footwork and patience.

With a different attitude, I was able to have a pleasant experience. I'm not sure I would enjoy playing against that style all the time. But I had no ill feelings toward my opponents and it was just another "style" of play I had to beat.

 

[estradamme]

@estradamme , I had to play on a court with a pusher and some very erratic players. It used to really bother me to play against these guys. But what I realized is that was a weakness I had in my own game. That I was only used to playing a certain pace and I couldn't adapt. One of the ways I was able to get passed this was to consider this match like a reflex drill. Basically be ready for ANYTHING. Lots of footwork and patience.

With a different attitude, I was able to have a pleasant experience. I'm not sure I would enjoy playing against that style all the time. But I had no ill feelings toward my opponents and it was just another "style" of play I had to beat.

I understand what you're saying. I still am mentally weak as a player. I get hung up over missed shots and other little things. This is why I was deemed "unfriendly" by most of the people I played against when I first started playing. Competition sometimes brings out the worst in people and it has certainly done that to me. I mainly play with my brother, but I see I now need to try to find other hitting partners to improve the faulty aspects of my game and mentality.

EDIT: There was one person I played against before who was worse than I was in terms of getting frustrated. He would cuss like crazy and yell a lot whenever he missed certain shots and would constantly throw/drop his racquet. I made a promise to myself that I would never be like him, because playing against him was stressful.

 

[Wise one]

I've been playing tennis for about 2 years now and most of the people I've played against have strokes that are pretty close to what is considered normal so getting my rhythm going against them is not a problem, but for the first time 2 days ago I played against someone who played in such an unorthodox way that I couldn't get any rhythm at all against him. I was on my heels the entire match and just never felt comfortable. I'll try to explain the way he plays: he plays a combination of going for broke (and his shots annoyingly always seemed to snag the line or drop in) or drop shots/deep slices that barely made it over the net/dropped in at the baseline. His shots were very flat and as soon as they looked like they were about to crash into the net they somehow managed to make it over and I was unprepared. The ball also tended to just die after it landed so I had to reach for a lot of those shots and hit the majority of them into the net or shanked them well past the baseline. At first I thought I would just try to be defensive and wait for him to miss, but after a number of winners were hit against me I started to just rip the ball and when I got the ball in he either sliced them into drop shots that somehow managed to make it over the net or deep slices with side spin that went everywhere (and I really mean everywhere!). I would often get ready for a backhand and then the ball hopped to my forehand side and vice-versa.
This was the most frustrated I've been in a while. Now thinking about it I wonder if I should've just played with greater margin by putting more spin on my shots so they would jump up on him a little more. I probably also should've been staying closer to the net since I got so many drop shots. Thoughts?
Is there a certain way I should play if I play against an unorthodox player in general or is it even worth it since this was the first one I've come across thus far?

Understand this: He's better than you. He controls the point. You must, I believe, learn how to do the same things to him that he is doing to you: Mix it up, hit lobs for no reason, hit drop shots from the baseline that force him to come up (even if he gets them, he has to expend energy; if he's smart he will let them go if the point is not a crucial one). Alternate slices with topspins. Hit underhand drop-shot serves. Hit lob serves. Don't go after an easy shot, and fake a limp. Just stand there and stare at him, maybe, and grab your leg. In other words, fight fire with fire.

Understand the difference between strategy and tactics.

 

[estradamme]

Understand this: He's better than you. He controls the point. You must, I believe, learn how to do the same things to him that he is doing to you: Mix it up, hit lobs for no reason, hit drop shots from the baseline that force him to come up (even if he gets them, he has to expend energy; if he's smart he will let them go if the point is not a crucial one). In other words, fight fire with fire.

Understand the difference between strategy and tactics.

Yes, I've unfortunately had to come to the conclusion that I'm in second place against him currently, but I'm unsure about trying to beat him at his own game. I like the idea of giving him a taste of his own medicine, but I still want to play my game with some adjustments. Can I possibly do both and still be successful? My plan next time, if there is a next time against him, is to bring him into the net, which was what I failed to do the first time, get into an occasional slice war with him, and add more spin to my shots so they get up high on him. My lobs always go long so...

 

[user92626]

Ihe plays a combination of going for broke (and his shots annoyingly always seemed to snag the line or drop in) or drop shots/deep slices that barely made it over the net/dropped in at the baseline. His shots were very flat and as soon as they looked like they were about to crash into the net they somehow managed to make it over and I was unprepared.

Sounds like he's very skillful. For sure it takes skill to do those kinds of things and consistently enough as to win a whole set/match. We don't lose by one or two random quality shots.

I am also facing a similar "problem" and trying to find solution for it. Every week I come out on my lunchtime to play with this one friend whose style -- and he openly admits it -- is to come out and rip shots immediately. He cannot slow down or think about shots as it would cause him to miss. Because this is lunchtime I have no time to tune up and find my range and my best game usually appears after an hr! On other hand my friend has no problem with no warm-up.

Our match feels very erratic for me, especially when I am a control type. My friend doesn't have the concept of building up point. He goes for the sidelines immediately, punishes weak serves almost every time. He's not perfect but my uncomfortableness and frustration and impatience of looking for my perfect FH/BH feels seem to be aiding him a lot.

I don't know. I guess you have to get better. Uncomfortable shots are simply shots that we are not ready for. Most of the time we're too slow to get to them or when we get to them we are not hitting them enough times to feel confident.

 

[estradamme]

Sounds like he's very skillful. For sure it takes skill to do those kinds of things and consistently enough as to win a whole set/match. We don't lose by one or two random quality shots.

I am also facing a similar "problem" and trying to find solution for it. Every week I come out on my lunchtime to play with this one friend whose style -- and he openly admits it -- is to come out and rip shots immediately. He cannot slow down or think about shots as it would cause him to miss. Because this is lunchtime I have no time to tune up and find my range and my best game usually appears after an hr! On other hand my friend has no problem with no warm-up.

Our match feels very erratic for me, especially when I am a control type. My friend doesn't have the concept of building up point. He goes for the sidelines immediately, punishes weak serves almost every time. He's not perfect but my uncomfortableness and frustration and impatience of looking for my perfect FH/BH feels seem to be aiding him a lot.

I don't know. I guess you have to get better. Uncomfortable shots are simply shots that we are not ready for. Most of the time we're too slow to get to them or when we get to them we are not hitting them enough times to feel confident.

Yes, this is a tough dilemma for me. I do think I need to get better, be fully prepared for the unexpected, and just continue to work on my footwork. It's still so alien to me since it happened to me for the first time the day before yesterday. There was one player I played against 3 months ago who mixed it up pretty well, but he had no power so I had no problem putting away his slices and topspin shots and my serve was stronger than his so I held serve without a problem.

Edit: It probably wouldn't hurt to raise my first serve percentage. I had to hit a lot of second serves and you guessed it, they were sliced back deep.

 

[Traffic]

Yes, I've unfortunately had to come to the conclusion that I'm in second place against him currently, but I'm unsure about trying to beat him at his own game. I like the idea of giving him a taste of his own medicine, but I still want to play my game with some adjustments. Can I possibly do both and still be successful? My plan next time, if there is a next time against him, is to bring him into the net, which was what I failed to do the first time, get into an occasional slice war with him, and add more spin to my shots so they get up high on him. My lobs always go long so...

Yes, this is a tough dilemma for me. I do think I need to get better, be fully prepared for the unexpected, and just continue to work on my footwork. It's still so alien to me since it happened to me for the first time the day before yesterday. There was one player I played against 3 months ago who mixed it up pretty well, but he had no power so I had no problem putting away his slices and topspin shots and my serve was stronger than his so I held serve without a problem.

Edit: It probably wouldn't hurt to raise my first serve percentage. I had to hit a lot of second serves and you guessed it, they were sliced back deep.

When I felt like I was just not able to get over the hump, these are the things I focused on:

1. Get my serves in. Work on a good 2nd serve. I use a kicker serve because it has enough movement that most opponents in my range can't automatically ROS for a winner. Usually it's a weak return and some times I win the point because they hit long or wide. DF is like your opponent just hit a winner. A weak 2nd serve that gets punished hurts too. Don't worry about getting free points on a killer first yet. Just get in a serve that won't get you punished.

2. Move my feet. Always be moving. My biggest problem is that after I hit a good stroke, I stand there and admire my shot. I need to immediately get back to my ready position. Many times I get lazy when my opponent hits a shorter shot that brings me in a few steps and I don't go back to my ready spot and I'm out of position for a routine groundstroke.

Just these two items alone can transform your score pretty significantly.

 

[estradamme]

When I felt like I was just not able to get over the hump, these are the things I focused on:

1. Get my serves in. Work on a good 2nd serve. I use a kicker serve because it has enough movement that most opponents in my range can't automatically ROS for a winner. Usually it's a weak return and some times I win the point because they hit long or wide. DF is like your opponent just hit a winner. A weak 2nd serve that gets punished hurts too. Don't worry about getting free points on a killer first yet. Just get in a serve that won't get you punished.

2. Move my feet. Always be moving. My biggest problem is that after I hit a good stroke, I stand there and admire my shot. I need to immediately get back to my ready position. Many times I get lazy when my opponent hits a shorter shot that brings me in a few steps and I don't go back to my ready spot and I'm out of position for a routine groundstroke.

Just these two items alone can transform your score pretty significantly.

My footwork and second serve are both a work in progress. I do have that bad habit of standing there when I hit a nice shot and if it comes back I have the tendency to not be ready. I often watch the Williams sisters play and I noticed they take their racquet back and get into position immediately after the ball leaves their strings, so I'm trying to imitate that type of preparation and footwork.

As for my second serve, it's a toss up. I have been working on the kick serve for a while now and have many ups and downs with it. It's a 50/50, either is crashes into the net or it goes in. I heard from someone to stay sideways as long as possible and it seems to be helping my kick serve more. Sometimes I'll play a match where I just hit second serves to see if I can win off of no first serves.

 

[texasleaguer]

I understand what you're saying. I still am mentally weak as a player. I get hung up over missed shots and other little things. This is why I was deemed "unfriendly" by most of the people I played against when I first started playing. Competition sometimes brings out the worst in people and it has certainly done that to me. I mainly play with my brother, but I see I now need to try to find other hitting partners to improve the faulty aspects of my game and mentality.

EDIT: There was one person I played against before who was worse than I was in terms of getting frustrated. He would cuss like crazy and yell a lot whenever he missed certain shots and would constantly throw/drop his racquet. I made a promise to myself that I would never be like him, because playing against him was stressful.

I always get a kick out of players like you. The more I see you get out of shape mentally the more I push those buttons. If certain shots get you frustrated, you can bet your life you'll be seeing those shots a lot. If an opponent starts throwing/dropping his racket, I'll try to keep pushing till he breaks it. After all, it is a competition which by it's very nature requires a winner and a loser. As I see it it's not up to me to worry whether you're having fun, it's just up to me to effect the outcome.

Bottom line is: lighten up on yourself, have fun, and keep practicing.

 

[estradamme]

I always get a kick out of players like you. The more I see you get out of shape mentally the more I push those buttons. If certain shots get you frustrated, you can bet your life you'll be seeing those shots a lot. If an opponent starts throwing/dropping his racket, I'll try to keep pushing till he breaks it. After all, it is a competition which by it's very nature requires a winner and a loser. As I see it it's not up to me to worry whether you're having fun, it's just up to me to effect the outcome.

Bottom line is: lighten up on yourself, have fun, and keep practicing.

Agreed. Trying more these days to eliminate any distracting elements such as intense emotions. I've never thrown a racquet, but I did break one before. It definitely relieved a lot of anger, but it hurt me financially, which is why I will never break one again.
I played a doubles match yesterday, lost it (only by a couple of points), but remained calm throughout. It's a start...

 

[texasleaguer]

Agreed. Trying more these days to eliminate any distracting elements such as intense emotions. I've never thrown a racquet, but I did break one before. It definitely relieved a lot of anger, but it hurt me financially, which is why I will never break one again.
I played a doubles match yesterday, lost it (only by a couple of points), but remained calm throughout. It's a start...

Good for you. Now, for those emotions of yours. Start trying to figure out what emotional buttons to push on your opponent and you'll be too busy to be worrying about yours.