Playing Mixed Against 5.0 Woman/4.0 Man

[Downtheline1]

My partner and I will be playing mixed doubles against a 5.0 woman and 4.0 man.
I'm a 4.5 and my partner is a 4.0.
The 5.0 woman (at least 5.0) is a former teaching pro, mid-30's who played D1 and futures.
She will keep hitting shots to my partner that are just a little too good for her level until my partner makes a mistake. I think if we play solid and not press, we should do fine, and obviously keep it to the 4.0 man. She should get her first serve in. Thinking that points should be short.

Any tips? Has anyone beaten a team like this!

Thanks!!

 

[esgee48]

Look for weaknesses in THEIR game. Who returns better and from which side. Who volleys better. Who moves better. Who has the better OH. Is one side stronger than the other. Do they make tactical mistakes in that the Man is too close to the net? Then target those areas occasionally; not all the time. At 4.5, you should be able to handle her pace, so concentrate on keeping her deep so her ground strokes cannot hurt your partner that much. your team may not win, but it should be interesting. 2 cents.

BTW, if she played D1 and is mid-30's, what is she doing at 5.0? Thought you had to be older before moving down.

 

[g4driver]

I think if we play solid and not press, we should do fine, and obviously keep it to the 4.0 man.
Any tips? Has anyone beaten a team like this!

Thanks!!

IMO, It isn't as obvious as you think. When the 4.0 guy is a 4.0A, meaning he appealing down from 4.5, or he is a near 4.5, I doubt you find solace in hitting to him. I have watched two of my 4.0 teammates beat a 5.0 guy/4.0 woman and a 4.5/4/5 this year. When the 4.0 guy is as good or better than the 5.0 lady, you are in a very a long match.

And yes, there are 5.0 women who were 4.5 women last year, playing with 4.0 men who were 4.5 men last year. If you run into this combo like the 5.0 guy/4.0 lady, the court is pretty balanced.

 

[Jack the Hack]

In my opinion, the best 9.0 mixed combination is a 5.0 woman with strong 4.0 man. Whenever I've run into that combo, there is no weak spot to hit to (unless one of them has a glaring weakness, like a bad volley or overhead, or can't move).

This year, I've been a 5.0 guy playing with a 4.0 partner, resulting in close matches. Most 4.0 women are not aggressive enough or fast, and they get hit at relentlessly. In my case, we've had good results against similar 5.0M/4.0W combos where we all equalize out, but have been beaten by strong 4.5/4.5 and 5.0W/4.0M teams.

 

[dblsplayer]

In my opinion, the best 9.0 mixed combination is a 5.0 woman with strong 4.0 man. Whenever I've run into that combo, there is no weak spot to hit to (unless one of them has a glaring weakness, like a bad volley or overhead, or can't move).

This year, I've been a 5.0 guy playing with a 4.0 partner, resulting in close matches. Most 4.0 women are not aggressive enough or fast, and they get hit at relentlessly. In my case, we've had good results against similar 5.0M/4.0W combos where we all equalize out, but have been beaten by strong 4.5/4.5 and 5.0W/4.0M teams.

Agreed. When playing 9.0 mixed in SoCal, my 4.0 partner and I (4.5) beat two 5.0 guy, 4.0 woman combos and lost to A 5.0 woman, very good 4.0 guy. The 5.0 woman was easily equal to me and the guy was the difference. Around here, a 5.0 wonan is just solid.

 

[Downtheline1]

Agreed. When playing 9.0 mixed in SoCal, my 4.0 partner and I (4.5) beat two 5.0 guy, 4.0 woman combos and lost to A 5.0 woman, very good 4.0 guy. The 5.0 woman was easily equal to me and the guy was the difference. Around here, a 5.0 wonan is just solid.

It's going to be really tough. Both will be focusing on the 4.0 woman. How can I stop it? It makes me think that I have to be more aggressive which leads to mistakes.

 

[goran_ace]

It's going to be really tough. Both will be focusing on the 4.0 woman. How can I stop it? It makes me think that I have to be more aggressive which leads to mistakes.

That is a pretty solid team and will be tough to beat. In my opinion the keys to protecting a weaker partner are getting a high percentage of first serves in when you serve and being more assertive about taking balls that comes down the middle (especially first volley when partner is serving).

 

[g4driver]

Get your 4.0 partner to play in a smaller area of the court and yield more balls to you that she would normally play if she were playing 4.0 women's doubles.

The biggest key to success : Tell her not to cut off those line drive crosscourt returns, below her shoulders that are coming to you with pace. Your 4.0 female partner needs to understand you are a 5.0 guy and she is not playing with a 4.0 lady partner.

The biggest issue I see with 3.0 and 4.0 women at 7.0 and 8.0 mixed, vs 4.0 men/3.0 women and 4.5 guys / 3.5 female combos is my lower rated female partner trying to equate success at 3.0 or 4.0 women's doubles vs to success vs a 4.0 or 4.5 guy at 7.0 and 8.0 mixed.

They say "I can do that in doubles against women".

and I quickly add., "Do you understand he is 4.0 or 4.5 guy ? He hits a lot harder than a 3.0 / 4.0 lady and you need to let those balls go crosscourt"

I hate 8.0 mixed worse than 7.0, and 9.0 mixed is the absolute best mixed for me.. At 9.0 mixed, I get a balanced court with 5.0 lady. At 7.0, I expect the 3.0 lady to struggle, but 8.0 is the absolute worst, as there are many 4.0 women who simply hit to soft to be playing 8.0. Soft hitting 3.0 women are normal, and you can overpower 3.5/3.5 teams, but put a soft hitting 4.0 lady on the court with a solid 4.0 lady/4,.0 guy, 3.5 guy/ 4.5 lady, or 4.5 guy/3.5 lady, and it is a disaster. They start lobbing short balls and the next thing you know, you are getting overhead after overhead coming down at your feet, body and head. NO Thanks. I know multiple 4.0 guys who refuse to play 8..0 mixed with these weak women.
I will play 7.0 and 9.0, but I will skip 8.0 next year. Two years in a row, same experience - weak 4.0 women who can't handle the pace at 8.0

 

[Moveforwardalways]

But why is cross court open anyway? Why aren't you both at the net? 4.0W/5.0M pairing should be attacking the net like crazy.

 

[g4driver]

But why is cross court open anyway? Why aren't you both at the net? 4.0W/5.0M pairing should be attacking the net like crazy.

When a 5.0 is serving to a 4.0A guy, or a strong 4.0 guy maybe the 4.0 has a ROS that gets enough respect from the 5.0 to not serve and volley him.

There is a 6'4" 5.0 guy on two of my teams and when he serves me, I do my best to stick balls at his feet. And yes he can be broken.

 

[tennis4me]

It's going to be really tough. Both will be focusing on the 4.0 woman. How can I stop it? It makes me think that I have to be more aggressive which leads to mistakes.

From personal experience and observations against good teams where the guys cover the weaker women players well, the stronger guys play mostly baseline (or slightly inside baseline) and only go to the net as a follow up when they're able to hit aggressive & penetrating shots (where they expect weaker balls coming back). The women player is usually positioned relatively close to the net (of course she needs to be comfortable/good at volleying). If the woman player is serving, she will quickly pave her way to that small area on the net and position herself well there. Since transitional volley is often hard after serving (for both men/women), she often lobs behind the net guy and moves in to the net quickly.

With this pattern, throughout the game the men usually manage to have 80-85% coverage + possession of the balls. Since the woman position herself relatively close to the net, unless the opponent hits a really good ball to her, she will usually put them away easily since she's almost on top of the net.

Of course, there's a counter to this pattern of play - but, that's a different story.

 

[TennisCJC]

But why is cross court open anyway? Why aren't you both at the net? 4.0W/5.0M pairing should be attacking the net like crazy.

I know a lot of 4.5 women that don't attack the net and a few 5.0 women that don't attack the net. Women's tennis is a lot different tactically and you see lots of 1 up and 1 back formations in 4.5 women's matches. And, some of these women are winning consistently without attacking the net as much as men would. Men play much more aggressively from a tactical perspective in doubles. You still see some men stay back at 4.5 level on occassion but not anywhere near as frequently as women at the same level. I don't think you can assume a succesful 4.0 woman will be attacking the net as her primary tactic in doubles.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

I know a lot of 4.5 women that don't attack the net and a few 5.0 women that don't attack the net. Women's tennis is a lot different tactically and you see lots of 1 up and 1 back formations in 4.5 women's matches. And, some of these women are winning consistently without attacking the net as much as men would. Men play much more aggressively from a tactical perspective in doubles. You still see some men stay back at 4.5 level on occassion but not anywhere near as frequently as women at the same level. I don't think you can assume a succesful 4.0 woman will be attacking the net as her primary tactic in doubles.

Maybe so, but even for women the 1 up 1 back is a weak formation. This is one of the reasons I just don't play mixed. If you can't get to the net, you can't play doubles. Simple as that. In fact, if someone doesn't serve and volley in doubles, I won't play with them. I am not going to be responsible for trying to win every point by poaching while my partner stands back there trying to hit ground strokes.

This isn't singles. I don't care how good your forehand or backhand is. Can you volley? Hit overheads? Return serve? Serve? Nothing else matters in doubles. If you are hitting ground strokes you are going to lose the match anyway, regardless of how well you hit them.

 

[Downtheline1]

Well we played a close match, and lost 7-5, 6-4.

I stayed back a fair amount of the time, which worked for us.

The 5.0+ women was rock solid, and the 4.0 man was red hot, especially with his volleys.

 

[TennisCJC]

Maybe so, but even for women the 1 up 1 back is a weak formation. This is one of the reasons I just don't play mixed. If you can't get to the net, you can't play doubles. Simple as that. In fact, if someone doesn't serve and volley in doubles, I won't play with them. I am not going to be responsible for trying to win every point by poaching while my partner stands back there trying to hit ground strokes.

This isn't singles. I don't care how good your forehand or backhand is. Can you volley? Hit overheads? Return serve? Serve? Nothing else matters in doubles. If you are hitting ground strokes you are going to lose the match anyway, regardless of how well you hit them.

I used to think the same as you but have changed over the years. I S&Ved behind every serve for about 25 years but now stay back most of time behind serve. I do come in behind the first short ball and some serves. I think age had a bit to do with it as I am now in my late 50s. Also, 4.0 was last usta rating but rated 4.5 for years and played a little 5.0.

I think you might be over simplifying things a bit. Most WTA pro doubles matches have a lot of 1 up and 1 back even for the serving team. WTA teams would beat almost all amatuer teams up to open level when things would begin to get competitive.

 

[TennisCJC]

Well we played a close match, and lost 7-5, 6-4.

I stayed back a fair amount of the time, which worked for us.

The 5.0+ women was rock solid, and the 4.0 man was red hot, especially with his volleys.

You did well - sounds like a close match. Which opponent was overall stronger?

 

[Downtheline1]

The 5.0 + women definitely was stronger. The 4.0 man played very well.

The difference maker was the 4.0 man- no question.