Playing S&V with a non-mobile partner

[Roforot]

I will be playing mixed dubs and likely will be playing w/ either of the two 3.0 ladies... who are decent at the net, but just not able to get back for lobs. Rather than shuffling back like a Quarterback drop, they back pedal two tiny steps and call out yours! These ladies have been well programed to move in this pattern. Is it possible to make S&V/ chip & charge work in this situation. When I play w/ these partners, I usually stay back and try to win from the baseline, but I'm trying to play the net more in Men's doubles and would like to practice the same w/ mixed.

I know the tried and true strategy for mixed is to have the weaker player sit in the ally and play singles against the two opponents, but I feel that it is more fun to get my partner involved.

 

[esgee48]

Can they hit overheads and volleys from the middle of the service box? If the answer is no, then they won’t be able to cover their own side. And you shouldn’t try S&V unless your opponents can‘t lob. If you can hit shots that your opponents can’t easily lob, you could try S&V, but that may be a big IF.

NTRP 3.0 have too man deficiencies unless you can overwhelm the other team with your serving, etc.

 

[Cashman]

It depends on how good your serves and first volleys are.

Lobbing in doubles is (generally) a pretty defensive and low-percentage shot. If your partner isn't good at handling overheads you will lose more points than you should, but if you're getting torn apart by lobs - it means that you are not really putting them under enough pressure with your serves and volleys.

 

[eah123]

I’m in this situation a lot because in most of my doubles Groups I’m the strongest player so I get partnered with the weakest player to make the matches closer. Or I play mixed with my wife and she is not mobile at net and hangs behindthe baseline when she is serving or receiving.

I’ve had the most success when my partner hugs the net to make volleys and putting away floaters much easier. Of course this makes them susceptible to the lob and they don’t cross the center line to poach or take drop shots. So when I’m the back player, I will generally hang close the baseline in no man’s land to cover behind my partner if they miss a volley, but also be ready to take a short pop up in my direction as a swing volley, overhead, or even after the bounce put away ground stroke. I think serving and volleying or chip and charge leaves way too much court uncovered.

With weaker doubles partners, I like to think that court coverage is like 90% me I’m in the back - everything that is not hit directly at my partner. When I’m the front player, then my coverage is closer to 75% - my half of the court plus the front half of my partner’s side.

 

[travlerajm]

I’m not sure your level, but I can share my strategy for playing mixed with a 3.5 lady as a 4.5.

I have her play really close to the net, with her nose hanging over it. Not necessarily in the alley… actually I like her to crowd the middle a bit.

I play S&V.. using Aussie from deuce, so that I always come forward into ad court, where it’s easier for me to roll across behind her to cover all lobs.

My home position is inside the service box, but staggered behind my partner. With her so close to net, it channels more balls to me.

 

[nyta2]

I will be playing mixed dubs and likely will be playing w/ either of the two 3.0 ladies... who are decent at the net, but just not able to get back for lobs. Rather than shuffling back like a Quarterback drop, they back pedal two tiny steps and call out yours! These ladies have been well programed to move in this pattern. Is it possible to make S&V/ chip & charge work in this situation. When I play w/ these partners, I usually stay back and try to win from the baseline, but I'm trying to play the net more in Men's doubles and would like to practice the same w/ mixed.

I know the tried and true strategy for mixed is to have the weaker player sit in the ally and play singles against the two opponents, but I feel that it is more fun to get my partner involved.

in men's doubles, i always s&v, and even c&c/drive&charge 2nd serves, when i can.
in mixed, i stay back, and only come to net when it's very difficult for them to lob (eg. partner volleyed a ball, low to the mid court and has opponents digging a ball from the svc line), or just to give opponents a different look (eg. they are getting too comfortable floating back cc returns)... but mainly i'm trying to set up my partner at net to put the ball away...

weaker partner should not be guarding the alley, unless your shots are weak and/or opponents groundies are strong.

 

[socallefty]

but I'm trying to play the net more in Men's doubles and would like to practice the same w/ mixed.

Matches are not for practice - you owe it to your partner to give your doubles team the best chance to win. Do practice drills with a partner where you do crosscourt half-court points and the server gets points only if you are inside the service box when the point ends. If you also want to practice chip-and-charge, then the same rule can be extended in the drill to the returner.

 

[LuckyR]

I’m not sure your level, but I can share my strategy for playing mixed with a 3.5 lady as a 4.5.

I have her play really close to the net, with her nose hanging over it. Not necessarily in the alley… actually I like her to crowd the middle a bit.

I play S&V.. using Aussie from deuce, so that I always come forward into ad court, where it’s easier for me to roll across behind her to cover all lobs.

My home position is inside the service box, but staggered behind my partner. With her so close to net, it channels more balls to me.

This is the correct answer.

The solution to playing with different skill levels isn't to minimize participation by the weaker player (by putting them in the alley), it's to position them so it is a tactical error to hit to them repeatedly.

As the better player you've got to cover lobs over her head when you're at the net, so play a bit closer to the service line.

 

[PRS]

Yeah, I'm with traveler and Lucky. You just have to be aware that you'll be covering the lobs and make sure you're ready for that. Try to read/anticipate your opponents' shots and don't get too close to the net unless you know your opponents aren't going to lob you. Also realize that they might get some lobs by you and that's okay, but you need to put yourself in position where you can get to most of them with your anticipation and positioning on the court.

 

[ey039524]

Have her play on top of the net. Come in and split step to get ready for the return. If it's a lob, cross from the split, and hit the overhead yourself.

 

[Roforot]

I’m not sure your level, but I can share my strategy for playing mixed with a 3.5 lady as a 4.5.

I have her play really close to the net, with her nose hanging over it. Not necessarily in the alley… actually I like her to crowd the middle a bit.

I play S&V.. using Aussie from deuce, so that I always come forward into ad court, where it’s easier for me to roll across behind her to cover all lobs.

My home position is inside the service box, but staggered behind my partner. With her so close to net, it channels more balls to me.

Im a lefty, so on my ad serve, I imagine I want her playing aussie? This way if they lob her, i dont have to hit a bh overhead. Or am I not following your tactics.

@esgee48 , these are fine 3.0 players. They can hit volleys and overheads for winners in a 3.0 match. vs 3.5 or a 4.0 those balls may come back. It’s same for anyone if you play vs a level higher, you almost have to hit 2 or 3 times the great shots to win the point.

@socallefty
I listen to gigi fernandez on a podcast and she still recs going to the net for amateurs. Other coaches do as well so I think this is best strategy? And most fun. I s&v in singles as well… but my singles game is still learning.

@LuckyR last year, I didnt want to rock the boat so I let them stay by the alley And I hit groundstrokes. Now they know I dont get mad if they poach or miss, so I like to play more proper.

@nyta2 Last year I was also recovering from a lower leg injury so I was less confident covering lobs on my side even and stayed back in mens doubles.

 

[travlerajm]

Im a lefty, so on my ad serve, I imagine I want her playing aussie? This way if they lob her, i dont have to hit a bh overhead. Or am I not following your tactics.

Yes, exactly. I have her position herself standing 3 feet from the net and about 3 feet from centerline, to clog the middle. This forces the returner to go either DTL to me S&Ving, or to lob to my overhead or high fh punch volley. If I’m partnering a 3.5 gal who isn’t comfortable in net-hugger position, I coach her to choke up. Makes her hands magically quicker.

 

[socallefty]

I listen to gigi fernandez on a podcast and she still recs going to the net for amateurs. Other coaches do as well so I think this is best strategy? And most fun. I s&v in singles as well… but my singles game is still learning.

I work on all aspects of my game in practice. In matches I try to play in the style which gives me the best chance to win. We play outdoors in SoCal near the beach and the conditions can range from fast (hot/dry) to medium speed to really slow (winter, marine layer/>90% humidity) depending on the time of year and time of day. When it is slow, the good baseliners win more and when fast, the aggressive net players win more. The guys who can adapt their style win more consistently irrespective of the conditions. The guys who want to come in on all points lose a lot in winter especially when it is cold and very humid.

Against big/effective servers, it is hard for returners to get to the net. At lower levels where serves are not weapons, often returns are not either and neither is the net game or overhead effective for many players. So just decide during a match how to play and don’t think there is only one style to win in doubles.