Playing someone almost 3 times my age in a tournament...

goober

Legend
I'm not advocating for the o.p. to take it easy on the guy. By all means, beat him 0-0 if you can. I just think it's a little bush league to have drops shots as a main part of his strategy to do so.

Also, I'm not sure I understand your Dodo Cheney argument. She plays (played?) against players her age or younger. The playing field is level. Not so with a 32 year old vs. a 84 year old.

I don't understand your argument. If an 84 year old chooses to enter a tournament where there are no age restrictions then other players should adjust their play for them, but it is ok if he drop shots you over and over? How about a strategy of hitting corner to corner or short angles forcing them to run is that not fair in your book either? To me it is no different to force them to run to the sideline or run to the net.

If I am in a tournament where I may have to play multiple matches in a day and I see you don't move well I am going to take advantage of that whether you are 20 years old or 80 . That does not mean drop shot after drop shot because drop shots are not that easy to hit well from the baseline. It does mean I am hitting to the corner, hitting short to draw you in and then lob and yes sometimes a drop shot if you hit the ball short and just stand behind the baseline. What I am not going to is hit the ball straight down the middle over and over because I feel sorry for you.

I don't think you give old guys enough credit. They know all the tricks in the book and they as a group drop shot more than anybody else. The 70 something year old guy I played who drop shotted me over and over and I started doing back to him wasn't offended. In fact is one of the few guys that I met at a tourney that gave me his full contact info and invited me to his club to play.
 

dcdoorknob

Hall of Fame
Assuming the guy is at the proper rating level, he's at that level even with his (assumed) limited mobility. Meaning his strengths are such that he can compensate and still win matches at that level.

If you are also at that same general level, but refuse to try and take advantage of a relative weakness in this opponents game, well good luck. You'll probably get beat, unless you're already near the top of level and he's not. If he's a legit 3.5 but can't move, he's probably hitting 4.0 level shots at least when he doesn't have to move much. It would be like playing a guy with a strong forehand and a bad backhand but trying to beat him by hitting to his forehand all match.
 

ECUmedford

New User
Hopefully we will be able to play our matches tomorrow. The weather is looking kind of iffy in Wilmington. I will be sure to give everyone a full report on how it goes! :)

I plan to play a normal game placing shots based on the area of the court they are hit to me. If that does not work I'll make adjustments from there. Who knows he might cover the court like a gazelle. :)
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
dcdoorknob has it figured out.
And blindly hitting CC to the corners won't work at all, as old guy would know this and camp for that shot.
Old guy also plays closer to baseline, so he has less distance to cover for drop shot attempts.
You can blast him off the court once or twice, but then he blocks it back into your backhand side.
You don't get 84 without adding something upstairs.
Oh Suresh. Tell President, or a 12 year old, that 65 is not an old guy.
 
It is difficult to explain the gamesmanship in so many words. You need to have been there to see it. All of us who saw it understood what was going on.

You said the LOL, was dearly commenting to the tike about her warm-up procedure and line calls, more to the point, since you were there, how was her warm-up? Was it unconventional? Was she not able to return the ball to the LOL, was she practicing her winners? Did she catch serves or practice her returns? How were the tikes calls, did the LOL have justification in "dearing" her? Please comment on these issues to give a more complete view of the events.
 

ECUmedford

New User
dcdoorknob has it figured out.
And blindly hitting CC to the corners won't work at all, as old guy would know this and camp for that shot.
Old guy also plays closer to baseline, so he has less distance to cover for drop shot attempts.
You can blast him off the court once or twice, but then he blocks it back into your backhand side.
You don't get 84 without adding something upstairs.
Oh Suresh. Tell President, or a 12 year old, that 65 is not an old guy.

You've told me everything that will not work against him (which pretty much leaves me with zero options). So what would the LeeD strategy be?
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
I'm 4.0, I can blast him off the court, since he's a 3.5.
Some old folkes like to run, but few can stop and change direction.
While old farts can play all court tennis, they hate that dropshot/lob combo, so learn to slice lob for control, and use that combination when and if you need to.
He won't blast you off the court with sheer power, but he will slice and dice, lots of low short shots near each sideline, if he's any good. You have to hit approach shots near the baseline/sidelines, assume net position and be wary of lobs that land in your NML, not sitters that you can overhead from service line or inside of.
His serve is likely slice and short/weak, but with good placement. You need to hang just inside your baseline to cover the wide serve, yet NOT telegraph your positioning because he can hit deep into your body also.
He won't be hitting baseline winners past you, but he can mesmerize you with slow, loopy FLAT and underspin balls. Be patient, move your feet, and position yourself with early shoulder turn.
He WILL short slice you on serves and move to net position, so be aware and return his serves with low shots.
 

ECUmedford

New User
I'm 4.0, I can blast him off the court, since he's a 3.5.
Some old folkes like to run, but few can stop and change direction.
While old farts can play all court tennis, they hate that dropshot/lob combo, so learn to slice lob for control, and use that combination when and if you need to.
He won't blast you off the court with sheer power, but he will slice and dice, lots of low short shots near each sideline, if he's any good. You have to hit approach shots near the baseline/sidelines, assume net position and be wary of lobs that land in your NML, not sitters that you can overhead from service line or inside of.
His serve is likely slice and short/weak, but with good placement. You need to hang just inside your baseline to cover the wide serve, yet NOT telegraph your positioning because he can hit deep into your body also.
He won't be hitting baseline winners past you, but he can mesmerize you with slow, loopy FLAT and underspin balls. Be patient, move your feet, and position yourself with early shoulder turn.
He WILL short slice you on serves and move to net position, so be aware and return his serves with low shots.

Good analysis. Thanks.
 

zaskar1

Professional
treat the opponent as an opponent

I live in a small town with little access to play decent tennis. I've spent all of 2014 trying to join USTA leagues an hour away but no luck so far. I finally decided to start playing USTA tournaments. I'm 32, a little out of shape and haven't played competitively since my high school days so I self-rated at the 3.5 level.

I am really excited about playing my first sanctioned tournament on Saturday! I couldn't wait to check the draws last night to stalk the competition. It turns out I will be playing an 84 year old :shock:. My first thought was, man I will feel kind of bad beating an old guy, but this could be a really good first round draw.

Then I came across some articles about him. It turns out he has been playing since the 1950s, has a 10 year history of playing USTA tournaments and leagues (mostly doubles), plays with a senior group 4 days a week, has competed in several Boston Marathons, and he has a couple of new knees.

Now I'm just hoping and praying for a win! lol

Any advice?

my advice would be to treat the opponent as an opponent.

if mobility is a problem for him, hit him lobs and dropshots,
nothing wrong with that
unless you can hit groundstrokes like
del potro, just move him from side to side, dont hit at him unless
you are sure you can hit a winner.

dont be intimidated by his age, he will do his best to beat you, so
you should do the same for him.

figure out what he doesnt like, and try to give him that shot

he will be doing the same to you

good luck

z
 

ECUmedford

New User
"Due to the inclement weather forecast for this weekend in Wilmington: All matches will be short sets: Short sets- first to 4 games by 2, two out of three tiebreak sets, 7 point set tiebreak at 4-4, match Tiebreak(10 point tiebreak) in lieu of the third set "
 
I've played with and against an awesome 4.0 82 year old here in the Reno area. He still prefers singles over doubles, and he is amazing at both. If you haven't been playing much and he does play 4 or 5 times a week, he will probably beat you. But when you're on the court, remember to have fun and just try your best, no?

But I agree drop shotting an 84 year old is kind of a D*ck move :)
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
I don't understand your argument. If an 84 year old chooses to enter a tournament where there are no age restrictions then other players should adjust their play for them, but it is ok if he drop shots you over and over?

I bet if it was clear after 2 or 3 dropshots that he didn't have the mobility to track them down, you'd stop from sheer embarrassment.

That said, I'd pay money to watch you drop shot a 84 year old man over and over again. I don't think you'd have the guts to do it with people watching.
 
I bet if it was clear after 2 or 3 dropshots that he didn't have the mobility to track them down, you'd stop from sheer embarrassment.

That said, I'd pay money to watch you drop shot a 84 year old man over and over again. I don't think you'd have the guts to do it with people watching.

I played with Vinnie Solomon (Harold's dad) about a decade ago (hope he's still around and kicking). He had a new hip or two and saw I was limping. The first shot he gives me, of course, was a dropper--my return to him, a dropper of course, game on! I had a great time playing with him for my week in Lauderdale, after driving cross-country through the blizzard of '05/'06.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
The first shot he gives me, of course, was a dropper--my return to him, a dropper of course, game on!

OK, so you could both get to drop shots.

If we are assuming the 84 year old has no trouble getting to dropshots, then of course it's OK. I'm just thinking that an 84 year old man will have trouble getting to them simply because he's quite old (probably a fair assumption, but obviously we don't know).

So I'm envisioning Goober hitting repeated drop shots (maybe drop/lob combos) to an old man that is basically rolling is eyes after the first few and Goober continuing to hit the drop shots saying "Too bad old man. Guess you shouldn't have signed up to play if you couldn't handle it".
 

goober

Legend
I bet if it was clear after 2 or 3 dropshots that he didn't have the mobility to track them down, you'd stop from sheer embarrassment.

That said, I'd pay money to watch you drop shot a 84 year old man over and over again. I don't think you'd have the guts to do it with people watching.

No as I said in a previous post I wouldn't drop shot any over and over because I can't hit a reliable drop shot from the baseline. I have already played the old dude who can't move in a tournament. Basically moved him corner to corner, short angles, bring him, drop shot him if he puts a drop shot on me that I can get too. If he hits a short one drop shot or angle shot is what he will get. I can tell you the old guy sure wasn't embarrassed to hit drop shot after drop shot against me.

I watched the old dude in the previous round beat a guy in his 20s because he wouldn't or may be couldn't change his game plan other than hit topspin balls down the middle 2/3 of the court. Meanwhile the old dude was playing him like a fiddle with tons of junk, drop shots and lobs. Now that was embarrassing loss.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
You can learn something from the old fart who beat that young stud.
Never give your opponent the game he likes to play against.
Take your opponent out of his game.
Vary a losing game.
Don't change too much if you're winning.
And never believe that just because some young baseliner cannot beat a higher rated female playing topspin from the baseline, that YOU cannot beat her using a different strategy other than baseline pounding.....if you're within a couple pts USTA of her rating.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
No as I said in a previous post I wouldn't drop shot any over and over because I can't hit a reliable drop shot from the baseline. I have already played the old dude who can't move in a tournament. Basically moved him corner to corner, short angles, bring him, drop shot him if he puts a drop shot on me that I can get too. If he hits a short one drop shot or angle shot is what he will get. I can tell you the old guy sure wasn't embarrassed to hit drop shot after drop shot against me.

I watched the old dude in the previous round beat a guy in his 20s because he wouldn't or may be couldn't change his game plan other than hit topspin balls down the middle 2/3 of the court. Meanwhile the old dude was playing him like a fiddle with tons of junk, drop shots and lobs. Now that was embarrassing loss.

We just have 2 very different players in mind. I'm thinking of an 84 year old guy that can't move well, so pretty much any drop shot will be a winner, or if he gets to it, he won't be able to do anything with it and will be susceptible to a lob.

You seem to have a pretty agile 84 year old man in mind. If that's the case, then certainly there's no problem with hitting drop shots against this man. It's just that in my experience, 84 year old guys just don't move that well.

Anyway, it really doesn't matter.
 

KTM144sx

New User
Never give your opponent the game he likes to play against.
Take your opponent out of his game.
Vary a losing game.
Don't change too much if you're winning.

This is great advice against any player!

I believe that in tournament play, you should use any shots at your disposal to win the match. Period. This is because your opponent will be trying to do the same against you. Some may say this is bush league, however, I don't think it's right not to use your best strategy according to your opponents weakness. I've learned not to prejudge my opponent based on warmups and whether they are male/female, young/old, etc. rather judge them on what you see them do well, or not so well, on the court.

Now, all of this being said. If after a couple games I realized that I could easily drop shot the old guy and win virtually every point at will ending up with a 6-0, 6-0, then our skill levels would be quite different as his strengths wouldn't over come his weakness (lack of mobility). In this case it wouldn't be fun nor a challenge for me but I would still want to win and move to the next round in the tournament. I would not want to just do droppers every shot rather I would probably try to exploit other weaknesses and use the dropper when needed to win key points/games.

If the only way I could win was to drop shots then that's what I'd do, however, I'm betting that he might have other weaknesses to exploit other than lack of movement, i.e. can you beat him by moving him side to side, high balls to the backhand, low penetrating slices, etc.?
 

ECUmedford

New User
Well it rained all weekend so they finally cancelled the tournament today. I had a round 1 bye so I didn't get to play Friday night. Saturday I was helping squeegee the courts to get them ready for play so I did not realize my late day match was rescheduled for this morning.

The USTA rain policy says that if play begins in your division there are no refunds. So it was pretty much a big waste of time and money. Ugh. 3.5 doubles was able to play 4 round robin matches. Is it unreasonable for me to think that playing zero matches warrants at least a partial refund?

I did speak to someone that played this guy before. He said that he likes to park at the middle service T and make you run corner to corner. Thought that was interesting.

Ready to find another tournament to actually play in!
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
The USTA rain policy says that if play begins in your division there are no refunds.
Did you sign a contract that you agreed with this (b*llsh*t)? Hard to believe they can't reschedule this. Tennis court time isn't that precious. If you paid with a credit card, call them up and explain you did not receive the promised (play in a tennis tournament) product from the seller. Of course this may make you persona non grata in your USTA region and won't be able to play any future events.

Reading this thread was still fun. The 'take it easy on the old guy' stuff was priceless.
 

RetroSpin

Hall of Fame
Well it rained all weekend so they finally cancelled the tournament today. I had a round 1 bye so I didn't get to play Friday night. Saturday I was helping squeegee the courts to get them ready for play so I did not realize my late day match was rescheduled for this morning.

The USTA rain policy says that if play begins in your division there are no refunds. So it was pretty much a big waste of time and money. Ugh. 3.5 doubles was able to play 4 round robin matches. Is it unreasonable for me to think that playing zero matches warrants at least a partial refund?

I did speak to someone that played this guy before. He said that he likes to park at the middle service T and make you run corner to corner. Thought that was interesting.

Ready to find another tournament to actually play in!

I think you owe it to all of us to call the guy up and set up a friendly match.
 

ECUmedford

New User
Did you sign a contract that you agreed with this (b*llsh*t)? Hard to believe they can't reschedule this. Tennis court time isn't that precious. If you paid with a credit card, call them up and explain you did not receive the promised (play in a tennis tournament) product from the seller. Of course this may make you persona non grata in your USTA region and won't be able to play any future events.

Reading this thread was still fun. The 'take it easy on the old guy' stuff was priceless.

To be more specific it was rules of the North Carolina USTA: http://nctennis.com/sites/nctennis.com/files/pdffiles/rainpolicy.pdf

I emailed the tournament director and she is willing to give me a credit or refund me in full since I didn't play a single match.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
I emailed the tournament director and she is willing to give me a credit or refund me in full since I didn't play a single match.
Glad that worked out. I should have said 'try to reason with them first' - assumed you had. Better than confrontation.

Work on your patience - you're going to need it. That old guy is going to have you talking to yourself.
 
I want my money back for the precious time I spent on this thread! It's totally unfair for the poster to sign up for a tournament and then not follow through and play. This is false advertising and bait and switch. Playing the old fart in a rec match is not the same as playing a tournament match. Old fart is not gonna' risk injury and play full out for a match that isn't going towards ranking points. I'm gonna' bring this up with the TT mods, maybe I can get a TW t-shirt to make up for all the time I wasted on this rained out thread in good faith. From now on the OP should only sign up for indoor tournaments. Does anyone want to play checkers or backgammon?
 
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AHJS

Professional
Ive played some people over 5x my age. Its whatever, play him like anyone else. Take into account game style, and strengths and weaknesses, and go from there. Good luck
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
I want my money back for the precious time I spent on this thread! It's totally unfair for the poster to sign up for a tournament and then not follow through and play. This is false advertising and bait and switch. Playing the old fart in a rec match is not the same as playing a tournament match. Old fart is not gonna' risk injury and play full out for a match that isn't going towards ranking points...
Awesome. You're GOATing. No pushing in that post!
 

10SDude

New User
ECUmedford - This is bizarre. I lived in Whiteville in the late 90's, and you're right that the tennis scene there is almost zero (or at least it was when I was there). However, there were a few players that I ran across that may still be around. (1) the boys basketball coach at WCHS was a good player and I think he may still be around; don't know if he still plays, but it would be well worth your time to talk him into getting back on the court; (2) there was someone who worked at the local paper (don't remember his name) who had a son that was on the UNC-Charlotte team at the time that I played a few times when he was home. I don't know if he came back to Whiteville or not after college - he'd be in his mid-30's now; (3) a local banker was also a very good player. I think he still works in town but has moved to Little River. These players were around 4.0. (4) Seems like the owner of the local paper was around a 3.5. Good luck!
 

ECUmedford

New User
ECUmedford - This is bizarre. I lived in Whiteville in the late 90's, and you're right that the tennis scene there is almost zero (or at least it was when I was there). However, there were a few players that I ran across that may still be around. (1) the boys basketball coach at WCHS was a good player and I think he may still be around; don't know if he still plays, but it would be well worth your time to talk him into getting back on the court; (2) there was someone who worked at the local paper (don't remember his name) who had a son that was on the UNC-Charlotte team at the time that I played a few times when he was home. I don't know if he came back to Whiteville or not after college - he'd be in his mid-30's now; (3) a local banker was also a very good player. I think he still works in town but has moved to Little River. These players were around 4.0. (4) Seems like the owner of the local paper was around a 3.5. Good luck!

It's a small world! Thanks for the leads. I think I know a few of the people you are talking about. I know the owner of the paper. He has a great tennis court in his backyard (jealous).We are in the early stages of developing a Tennis Association. Most of the courts in town are in horrendous condition so everyone plays at the Lake. You can see pictures on our Facebook page to see what I am talking about.

https://www.facebook.com/whitevilletennis
 

dragonfruit

New User
I played a 3.5 NRTP tournament earlier this year in February and my first match was against a guy in his mid to late 70s. I thought it was going to be a cake walk but he actually got me worried in the first set early as he was holding his own. He would hit weird spins and had a decent forehand. I think he even got an ace off me on one of his 1st serves. I think we were at 3-3, and I started playing more aggressive and ended up winning 1st set 6-3.

The 2nd set I think he might have been tired and starting drop shotting almost every ball, but I was able to get to most of them and I dropped shot him back and win the points. 2nd set was no contest at 6-0. But still I had a fun match playing him and he was no pushover.

I ended up having to beat another guy the next day who was around my age, and it was a tough match but I pulled off a 6-0, 6-3 win. I played later that day in the final and really did not have any gas left and my arm was killing me, and lost 1-6, 1-6 to a guy younger, more fit, and had better strokes than me. I am mid 30s and just got bumped to 4.0.

So in other words, I learned not to underestimate aged opponents!
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
I played a 3.5 NRTP tournament earlier this year in February and my first match was against a guy in his mid to late 70s. I thought it was going to be a cake walk but he actually got me worried in the first set early as he was holding his own. He would hit weird spins and had a decent forehand. I think he even got an ace off me on one of his 1st serves. I think we were at 3-3, and I started playing more aggressive and ended up winning 1st set 6-3.

The 2nd set I think he might have been tired and starting drop shotting almost every ball, but I was able to get to most of them and I dropped shot him back and win the points. 2nd set was no contest at 6-0. But still I had a fun match playing him and he was no pushover.

I ended up having to beat another guy the next day who was around my age, and it was a tough match but I pulled off a 6-0, 6-3 win. I played later that day in the final and really did not have any gas left and my arm was killing me, and lost 1-6, 1-6 to a guy younger, more fit, and had better strokes than me. I am mid 30s and just got bumped to 4.0.

So in other words, I learned not to underestimate aged opponents!

May be hard to believe but many 70-somethings play daily. Won't make many unforced errors.
 
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