Playing worse the better i get

[SoftHands]

I've noticed myself playing cleaner shots with better footwork, but with worse results. I know i'm a way better player right now, but i'm playing way less freely than i used to, freezing up in place, thinking about what's going to happen instead of just going with the flow. And as a result, i play with the same results against players who haven't progressed

I've also noticed some pro players following this pattern - a young guy comes onto the tour, plays some inspired tennis without overthinking anything (Tsonga, Gasquet) and then it seems the more experienced they become, the worse results they have, long before their explosiveness goes

Has anyone noticed anything similar?

 

[Bambooman]

Yes.

 

[travlerajm]

When you accept that winning has nothing to do with how clean your strokes are, and start to focus on the stuff that determines who wins, you will start winning a lot.

 

[mad dog1]

I've noticed myself playing cleaner shots with better footwork, but with worse results. I know i'm a way better player right now, but i'm playing way less freely than i used to, freezing up in place, thinking about what's going to happen instead of just going with the flow. And as a result, i play with the same results against players who haven't progressed

I've also noticed some pro players following this pattern - a young guy comes onto the tour, plays some inspired tennis without overthinking anything (Tsonga, Gasquet) and then it seems the more experienced they become, the worse results they have, long before their explosiveness goes

Has anyone noticed anything similar?

Maybe you just don’t see the improvements the players you feel haven’t progressed have made because their improvements are different from yours?

 

[travlerajm]

Maybe you just don’t see the improvements the players you feel haven’t progressed have made because their improvements are different from yours?

 

[mad dog1]

People tend to see the things they want to see through filtered lenses.

 

[Bambooman]

It's true. Some players get better with their terrible technique and it is essentially invisible improvement. Their strokes totally stagnate but they have better control and placement.

 

[yessir]

What saved me was realizing that without flattening the damn ball , I would go on on to play never ending rallies with peeps that just love to play never ending rallies. You get a ball , around shoulder height if you are 180cm and above? Crash it.

Next would be strategies but since you want the flow and not the overthinking I wouldn't go there for now.

 

[eah123]

Read (or re-read) the Inner Game of Tennis.

If you are doing it right, you only think about strokes during practice.
You only think about strategy when you are playing the match.
If you mess up a point (and you will), you immediately forget about it and focus on the next point. Analysis is saved for after the match.

 

[Fintft]

Read (or re-read) the Inner Game of Tennis.

If you are doing it right, you only think about strokes during practice.
You only think about strategy when you are playing the match.
If you mess up a point (and you will), you immediately forget about it and focus on the next point. Analysis is saved for after the match.

You are allowed to think about 1 max 2 technical things during your strokes, in a match. The mind observes (you watch the ball etc) and analysis is done after the shot, but not in terms of good or bad...

 

[fuzz nation]

I've noticed myself playing cleaner shots with better footwork, but with worse results. I know i'm a way better player right now, but i'm playing way less freely than i used to, freezing up in place, thinking about what's going to happen instead of just going with the flow. And as a result, i play with the same results against players who haven't progressed

I've also noticed some pro players following this pattern - a young guy comes onto the tour, plays some inspired tennis without overthinking anything (Tsonga, Gasquet) and then it seems the more experienced they become, the worse results they have, long before their explosiveness goes

Has anyone noticed anything similar?

There's a world of difference between having having a vast array of expensive tools and knowing how to build a house.

If you don't currently play every point with a simple plan that will either give you some sort of advantage or at least neutralize your opponent, start working on that.

 

[guanzishou]

Tennis is not only about hitting clean shots. It's about a strategy to win points, game, set and match. There are many ways to do that. There are many different kinds of shots, angles, pace, spin, depth and rhythm.

 

[mucat]

So how bad you were before?

 

[bigR]

Keep up the good work! The awareness is developing. The strategy can’t be far off. Soon enough you will be able to pick up on opponents weaknesses and even win some tight matches. Have fun!

 

[zaph]

Sorry but this simply doesn't happen. The only thing that matters in tennis is results. If you have truly progressed, you will be winning more and beating these players.

There are plenty of players who do split steps, correct footwork, the works and it means nothing if they lose to another player that doesn't. Having "advance" technique is meaningless if it doesn't make you a more effective player.

 

[Pumpkin]

Yes at first we are confident and things go well. After time you miss shots here and there at key moments. Now these experiences are in the back of your mind for next time. You miss again and wonder why you can't do as before so you chase it. The difference is there is pressure there that wasn't there before.

The key is to start building points. This is what Djokovic and Nadal do. In tennis there is an obstacle called the net, and limited space from the confines of the court. Going for winners will never work long term.

 

[nyta2]

I've noticed myself playing cleaner shots with better footwork, but with worse results. I know i'm a way better player right now, but i'm playing way less freely than i used to, freezing up in place, thinking about what's going to happen instead of just going with the flow. And as a result, i play with the same results against players who haven't progressed

I've also noticed some pro players following this pattern - a young guy comes onto the tour, plays some inspired tennis without overthinking anything (Tsonga, Gasquet) and then it seems the more experienced they become, the worse results they have, long before their explosiveness goes

Has anyone noticed anything similar?

1 step back to go 2 steps forward. for me, always. especially as my new skill(s) progress through the 4 stages of competence.
for example, when developing my net game, i made a point to s&v, c&c against everyone i "usually beat" when playing my usual "grind from the baseline".
matches i once won 6-1, 6-2, i was losing with similar scores. took me about 12-18mos to finally win a match against those same folks, that way
i find that happens on a less dramatic scale, as i make small tweaks, that typically require breaking old habits...
and ultimately even though i'm improving and making good corrections, i won't reap the rewards of those changes until i've gotten to an "unconscious competence" level of mastery with those tweaks (eg. effectively playing worse in the short term - eg. making mistakes in match situations where reverting to the old technique would have been safer (though not as effective in the long term, or against better opponents))

specifically what changes(s) did you make, that made you feel you are progressing with better technique, toward being a better player?

 

[ChaelAZ]

I've noticed myself playing cleaner shots with better footwork, but with worse results. I know i'm a way better player right now, but i'm playing way less freely than i used to, freezing up in place, thinking about what's going to happen instead of just going with the flow. And as a result, i play with the same results against players who haven't progressed

I've also noticed some pro players following this pattern - a young guy comes onto the tour, plays some inspired tennis without overthinking anything (Tsonga, Gasquet) and then it seems the more experienced they become, the worse results they have, long before their explosiveness goes

Has anyone noticed anything similar?

For me, one thing I noticed is when I am playing better and feel like I am progressing I in turn want to play even more. For me that has lead to some mental/physical burnout and gives diminishing returns and often some kind of regression. So if you have been playing a lot, maybe a short break is needed. I have taken a week off and that helped, but have several times in the last years I needed a few weeks to a month break, just to clear my mind and rest the body a bit. Or even work the body in different ways overall. Just a change of scenery and such. Find that is true in many aspects of my life too.

 

[coolvinny]

Sorry but this simply doesn't happen. The only thing that matters in tennis is results. If you have truly progressed, you will be winning more and beating these players.

There are plenty of players who do split steps, correct footwork, the works and it means nothing if they lose to another player that doesn't. Having "advance" technique is meaningless if it doesn't make you a more effective player.

Disagree. Sometimes when working on new stuff one gets worse before getting better. Totally normal and common in learning all types of activities. Having to consciously think about stuff can make you worse until it’s internalized.

 

[TropicalFruit]

What's your vision like? Some people are naturally able to track the ball well, while others don't. Focusing on vision helps alleviate things like nerves and overthinking, but it's possible you don't actually know what you're supposed to be doing with your eyes.

I've also experienced my technical and athletic skill far outstripping my results, but once I fixed my vision that was no longer the case.

 

[TropicalFruit]

Sorry but this simply doesn't happen. The only thing that matters in tennis is results. If you have truly progressed, you will be winning more and beating these players.

There are plenty of players who do split steps, correct footwork, the works and it means nothing if they lose to another player that doesn't. Having "advance" technique is meaningless if it doesn't make you a more effective player.

This isn't true at all.

Take two different 3.5 players. One has pretty decent technique, is pretty athletic, but has no idea how to properly track the ball. They shank balls all the time because they can't see it well.

Another is great at tracking the ball, hits everything on the strings, but is a slow pusher with no technique to speak of.

Which players is better? Sure, when they play matches, it's 50/50 who wins, but the first player is clearly "better" by almost every definition. The first player has an infinitely more likely chance to make it to 4.5, and a lot less work to get there, whereas the second player will almost certainly never get there.

If you define better as "winning matches," well then, yeah... you're not better until you win more matches. But that's just begging the question. Under any more nuanced definition of "better," it really is possible to get better without winning more. As a great example, if the second player had a goal of getting to 4.5, and he molded himself into the first player, he would clearly be better. He'd be far closer to his goal.

 

[PKorda]

This isn't true at all.

Take two different 3.5 players. One has pretty decent technique, is pretty athletic, but has no idea how to properly track the ball. They shank balls all the time because they can't see it well.

Another is great at tracking the ball, hits everything on the strings, but is a slow pusher with no technique to speak of.

Which players is better? Sure, when they play matches, it's 50/50 who wins, but the first player is clearly "better" by almost every definition. The first player has an infinitely more likely chance to make it to 4.5, and a lot less work to get there, whereas the second player will almost certainly never get there.

If you define better as "winning matches," well then, yeah... you're not better until you win more matches. But that's just begging the question. Under any more nuanced definition of "better," it really is possible to get better without winning more. As a great example, if the second player had a goal of getting to 4.5, and he molded himself into the first player, he would clearly be better. He'd be far closer to his goal.

Does the guy with better strokes have the higher potential? probably so. Who is better right now? That's determined solely on the court. This isn't figure skating.

 

[liam the shark]

Tennis improvement is a slow grind that can feel like a slog over time. I would recommend taking your focus away from results and improvement for a bit and just focus on enjoyment of the game for a few weeks. Maybe even take a week or 2 week tennis hiatus. It is very easy to get burnt out focusing only on improvement and results. I try and have a balance, where some days when my game just isn't there I just focus on enjoying the game and exercising.

 

[zaph]

This isn't true at all.

Take two different 3.5 players. One has pretty decent technique, is pretty athletic, but has no idea how to properly track the ball. They shank balls all the time because they can't see it well.

Another is great at tracking the ball, hits everything on the strings, but is a slow pusher with no technique to speak of.

Which players is better? Sure, when they play matches, it's 50/50 who wins, but the first player is clearly "better" by almost every definition. The first player has an infinitely more likely chance to make it to 4.5, and a lot less work to get there, whereas the second player will almost certainly never get there.

If you define better as "winning matches," well then, yeah... you're not better until you win more matches. But that's just begging the question. Under any more nuanced definition of "better," it really is possible to get better without winning more. As a great example, if the second player had a goal of getting to 4.5, and he molded himself into the first player, he would clearly be better. He'd be far closer to his goal.

Sorry but that is non-sense, you can't rate players best on future potential. The only measure of a tennis player's game is the ability to win matches. Being able to hit hard balls in rallies doesn't make you a better player.

The reality is this, if you can't produce your superior technique against slow balls and junk, you not a technically better player. A player whose technique breaks down in this situation is by definition technically flawed.

You are also assuming that the defensive player couldn't play in a different way if they wanted. Take myself, I can hit pretty hard off each wing but if I am playing an unforced error machine, I just feed them balls till they miss, it is the easiest way to win. If my opponent wants me stop doing that, they have to do something to make me stop.

 

[ubercat]

I feel ya bro. I bought a more powerful racquet after training more powerful shots. Net dumping used to be my common fault. Now unless I play like MEP I hit everything long. Thank god I have a big touch/junk toolbox to fall back on.

 

[threeseatercouch]

I feel ya bro. I bought a more powerful racquet after training more powerful shots. Net dumping used to be my common fault. Now unless I play like MEP I hit everything long. Thank god I have a big touch/junk toolbox to fall back on.

Isn't that the opposite of what you're meant to do? If you generate more power yourself you don't need as powerful a racquet?

 

[FiddlerDog]

I know i'm a way better player right now, but i'm playing way less freely than i used to, freezing up in place, thinking about what's going to happen instead of just going with the flow.

In other words, you do not play better, you have gotten worse.

If you get nerves, it means you don't trust your strokes, which means you have not been practicing.
Mental game is built during practice, not matches. Most rec players are mental basket cases.