Playtest ofthe Safin Setup

[blackdiamond]

Thanks for the reply.

I guess the spin potential of the racket is not directly related to the polarization, indirectly related as you've described. Spin is only directly related to the string deflection at ball impact.

 

[travlerajm]

Thanks for the reply.

I guess the spin potential of the racket is not directly related to the polarization, indirectly related as you've described. Spin is only directly related to the string deflection at ball impact.

Not quite. As I said, the lower string tension is just one of several factors.

Another reason that contributes almost as significantly is that the lower hitting weight increases dwell time by causing the racquet to pivot more about the wrist at impact. So more of the energy of the impact goes into rotation of the frame about the wrist axis. This means that less energy goes into deflection of the stringbed. Since the stringbed deflects less in the direction normal to the stringbed, the strings are freer to stretch more in the lateral direction. The increased lateral stretching of the strings confers greater spin potential. A similar mechanism explains why more flexible frames are more spin-friendly than stiffer frames.

 

[rgroves]

PS 85 w/Safin Setup?

In your response to DURICA533's post you gave a nice description of what SW is and how to calculate it.

HOWEVER-- For those of use without access to RDC machines and the such, would you be willing/able to provide specs on how to do a "Safin Setup" on a PS 85?

Things like: "place 4" of 1/4" lead tape at 3 & 9 o'clock; then remove grip and place 1" of 1/4" lead tape on handle with center 2" from butt"? I know this may seem silly, but I am a Noobie who is not as skilled as the PhD set.:mrgreen:

Thanks for the help,
Ryan

 

[FitzRoy]

In your response to DURICA533's post you gave a nice description of what SW is and how to calculate it.

HOWEVER-- For those of use without access to RDC machines and the such, would you be willing/able to provide specs on how to do a "Safin Setup" on a PS 85?

Things like: "place 4" of 1/4" lead tape at 3 & 9 o'clock; then remove grip and place 1" of 1/4" lead tape on handle with center 2" from butt"? I know this may seem silly, but I am a Noobie who is not as skilled as the PhD set.:mrgreen:

Thanks for the help,
Ryan

Unfortunately rgroves, it can't be done with the PS 85. It starts out heavier than the Safin setup.

I don't think you can get a SW in the 365+ region on the 85 without pushing the weight over 367g.

 

[rgroves]

I understand, I was thinking that was going to be a possibility. Of all the discussions that have been going on with travlerajm's setups, no one has given a really good description of how to do the "Sampras Setup". Or I may have just missed it.

Would you happen to have that in "Idiot Guide", or have a reference to it?

Thanks!

 

[TonyB]

Ok, time to be a Doubting Thomas

For my first attempt to recreate Safin's weight distribution, I used a stringbed weight estimate of 20g, which gave me a swingweight of ~370, balance pt of 12.73", and static wt of 356g (12.55 oz). The grades:

Serves: A+
Groundstrokes: C-
Volleys: B-

<<snip>>


So I next assumed a stringbed weight of 17g, giving a swigweight of ~365, a balance of 12.68", and a static weight of 353g (12.45 oz). The grades:

Serves: A (very explosive, an excellent serving weapon)
Groundstrokes: A+ (passing shots are too easy with this racquet)
Volleys: A

Ok, while I realize that adding weight and changing balance can be effective at altering the performance of a racquet, I just cannot get past the very fine level of calculations that you've presented. Let me explain my point:

First, you ASSUME a stringbed weight of 20g, which calculates through to a balance of 12.73" and a static weight of 12.55 oz. However, this racquet is "no good", with only a C- rating for groundies and a B- rating for volleys.

Then, you change your stringbed weight *assumption* to 17g, and by recalculating you get a balance differential of only 0.050" (less than 1/2 of a point) and a static weight differential of only 0.1 oz. (less than 3 grams). This racquet, as you say, gets an "A" grade across the board.

I'm sorry, but I just cannot believe that a racquet can go from a "C-" rating to an "A" rating by changing some *calculated* specs by a total of 3 grams, particuarly when you've ALSO changed your assumptions to boot!

I do appreciate the work you're doing and the fact that you're sharing your results in detail on this forum. Very well done. And I don't discount the possibility of changing performance by altering weight and balance. However, I also believe that it takes a lot more than a 3-gram change based on some extremely fine calculations to alter a racquet enough to actually make enough of a difference to go from a "lousy" setup to a "perfect" one.

 

[AlpineCadet]

Ok, while I realize that adding weight and changing balance can be effective at altering the performance of a racquet, I just cannot get past the very fine level of calculations that you've presented. Let me explain my point:

First, you ASSUME a stringbed weight of 20g, which calculates through to a balance of 12.73" and a static weight of 12.55 oz. However, this racquet is "no good", with only a C- rating for groundies and a B- rating for volleys.

Then, you change your stringbed weight *assumption* to 17g, and by recalculating you get a balance differential of only 0.050" (less than 1/2 of a point) and a static weight differential of only 0.1 oz. (less than 3 grams). This racquet, as you say, gets an "A" grade across the board.

I'm sorry, but I just cannot believe that a racquet can go from a "C-" rating to an "A" rating by changing some *calculated* specs by a total of 3 grams, particuarly when you've ALSO changed your assumptions to boot!

I do appreciate the work you're doing and the fact that you're sharing your results in detail on this forum. Very well done. And I don't discount the possibility of changing performance by altering weight and balance. However, I also believe that it takes a lot more than a 3-gram change based on some extremely fine calculations to alter a racquet enough to actually make enough of a difference to go from a "lousy" setup to a "perfect" one.

Welcome to the club. Try checking out the rest of his recent theories.

 

[TonyB]

And just to add: I guess what I'm saying is that most of the differences at such a fine level of adjustment are probably mental. I would also guess that if you played with any one of those 3 setups for more than a day or two, you would probably be able to easily adjust to any one of them and play equally well with all 3 in a very short time, if not sooner.

I've made complete RACQUET changes and gotten used to them in one or two hitting sessions. And while I might admit that one or more aspects of the racquet don't quite match my previous racquet's performance, it really only took a short while before I was able to adjust my swing to accomodate the new racquet and was able to exploit its advantages more so than my old racquet.

You have to wonder, if it only takes a 3-gram change to drastically alter a racquet's feel and performance, then why are people so undecided about which racquet to buy next?? People agonize over 3 or 4 racquets that play so similarly that they can't decide which one is better. And that's not even talking about customization...

 

[tursafinov]

In your response to DURICA533's post you gave a nice description of what SW is and how to calculate it.

HOWEVER-- For those of use without access to RDC machines and the such, would you be willing/able to provide specs on how to do a "Safin Setup" on a PS 85?

Things like: "place 4" of 1/4" lead tape at 3 & 9 o'clock; then remove grip and place 1" of 1/4" lead tape on handle with center 2" from butt"? I know this may seem silly, but I am a Noobie who is not as skilled as the PhD set.:mrgreen:

Thanks for the help,
Ryan

Perhaps would it be an easier task to accomplish on a Babolat Pure Storm(98) since it is lighter and lower in the swingweight and all other measurements.
Please Physics Majors let me try to handle a "Safin Setup" with the aid of your hardwork and inherent genius.

Thank you in Advance

 

[Noveson]

Wow....That was an interesting read. I don't have much experience with lead tape, in fact don't know anything about it except a few facts, but this is a great thread. Very interesting.

 

[tursafinov]

Seriously, Travelerajm, how can I elevate to Safin-Level playing and dominate the rest of my local high schools unless you instruct lesser beings like me in proper lead tape application?
I hang on your every nobel-prize winning words
( boy i sound like a travelerajm groupie)(sure hope doublehanded&loving it doesn't see this)
My Pure Storm aches for the ideal setup.

 

[travlerajm]

Seriously, Travelerajm, how can I elevate to Safin-Level playing and dominate the rest of my local high schools unless you instruct lesser beings like me in proper lead tape application?
I hang on your every nobel-prize winning words
( boy i sound like a travelerajm groupie)(sure hope doublehanded&loving it doesn't see this)
My Pure Storm aches for the ideal setup.

For the Pure Storm, the Safin Setup can be approximated with 20g at 3+9 (in 2 10"-long layers, with center of mass at 20.5" from butt), plus 21g in the butt, center of mass at 0.5" from butt.

 

[Duzza]

Thanks to Thomas Martinez for posting Safin's specs. I have converted them to strung specs.

For my next playtest, I will be demoing the Safin Weight Distribution, using the NXG OS as the platform. If I like it, I may also see how it works on my O3 Tour OS.

Swingweight: 370 kg-cm^2
Static Weight: 12.55 oz. (356g)
Balance: 12.73"



Lead placement on NXG: 15g with center of mass at 24" from butt (at 10 and 2), plus 4g in the butt with center of mass at 0.25".

Initial string test: 16g Kevlar Hybrid at 67 lbs.

I wil report back on the playtest results.

I did this with one of my POG's but with different weights as it already had lead on it. It is so much better than the other one now! So much hidden power and confidence on groundstrokes. It was beautiful with a SW of around 340 i think.

 

[Duzza]

Because it's not possible to match Safin's specs with those frames - they start out too heavy, so they have no room to customize.

.

i was gonna say that :O. Anyway what rating are you travler?

 

[emcee]

Yo Trav, this topic really intrigues me. Can you tell me how to do it for a FXP Radical Tour? It's about the same weight as the NXG OS.

Now I really want to get a cheap Pure Storm just to mess around with.

 

[Duzza]

The SW and balance can't work with a Flexpoint Tour, not enough weight gap

EDIT: emcee i was messing around with another spreadsheet and you could try this....

Makes it about 5 and a bit points HL, 365 SW, 356 grams GIVEN your racquet meets the ones I got from TW

 

[Duzza]

Hmmm...

Sorry, this stupid site won't accept for some reason... I used Steve H's and it worked fine giving SW 374.

 

[stules]

I hope this helps............
download it here
http://www.badongo.com/file/1604939
You have to go to the bottom of the page, and read the instruction.

I figure you have Excell on your pc.

open the spreadsheet.

There is no need to copy the formula. Across the bottom of the page are 'tabs. I have inserted about 10 popular racquets there, with the specs off TW. click on the tab, and mod away to your hearts content.

When you wish to use a new racquet,
'right click' on any tab at the bottom of the page,
click 'copy sheet'
tick the sheet you wish to copy
'ok'
'right click' on the new tab and rename to the desired name.

The blue fields need to be filled out, ie if your racqet length is 69.5cm, you need to insert that number in the blue square.

Fill out the blue 'weight added' squares with grams of lead at a distance from the butt (both figures can be varied) but leave the space blank or with a '0' in it if you don't place lead there. Negative numbers work as well, eg if you trim down the grommets, weigh them before and after, and place the difference as a minus figure at the average distance from the butt where you trimmed.

TW's figures are close, but they are averages of that racquet, and not for your specific one. ie if you have a 4 5/8 grip it may be heavier, and slightly more head light. With this in mind I weigh the actual racquet I am modding, measure its actual balance point (with overgrip and dampener on) and check the SW using the pendulum method (as per the bottom of the spreadsheet) and then insert these figures into the start of the spreadsheet instead of TW's. Either way is reasonably close.

Please follow these instructions, and hopefully it will be reasonably self explanatory. If you have any difficulties, please say so, as you won't be the only one. I have tried to label everything on the spreadsheet to make it useable without complicated instructions.
REgards Stuart

 

[Duzza]

Hey stules nice work, what is the quality index? Also i didnt like the way it rounds up on grams added and fyi a standard racquet is actually 68.58 cm and why would you remove the grip and not add a new one on? And why does, with the balance if you have 12.5 inch balance equal 8.5 points? If its a standard 27 inch racquet surely the balance is (13.5-12.5)*8? Also this one also involves trial and error unlike Amones. Maybe if you asked him if you could include his work in yours? What i mean is with Amones you can choose the desired swingweight, balance and then mix around with the 1st location of weight until you find places that work.
eg.

 

[SHG72]

spreadsheet question

stules,
I really like your spreadsheet.

If I place a long strip of lead tape on my racquet, I use the average distance for r'. For example, if I place an 11" strip at top of my frame, I enter 67cm for r', which is the distance at 12 o'clock. But, shouldn't the formula also include the length of the strip? Otherwise, the spreadsheet implies that placing all of the weight at exactly 12 o'clock has the same affect as placing the same weight evenly distributed over many centimeters, but centered at 12?

Is this correct, or am I missing something?

Thanks.

 

[kingnike12]

Customizing Aeropro Drive and Pure Storm

Hi travlerajm. I want to know what I should do to customize my aeropro drive and a pure storm to play like the safin setup. I am kinda new in the customizing department so can you help me step by step. Thanks.

 

[davedave121]

is it possible to safinize my pd standard?

thanks

 

[Japan Tennis]

o3 tour mp lead....

hey travelerajam

How do i do this with my o3 tour mp?

Can you explain it in simple terms...ie where to apply how much. not sientific terms..

Thanks alot

Japan Tennis

 

[WhiteSox05CA]

So in the end... this "Safin Setup" is about 8.5 pts. HL right? (12.45 oz)
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[WhiteSox05CA]

Lead placement on NXG: 15g with center of mass at 24" from butt (at 10 and 2), plus 4g in the butt with center of mass at 0.25"..

So did the racquet start off with lead in this position or was it stock form? So whatever lead you say you added in the end, we should also include this before right?
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