Please critique my Eastern Grip serve

[RapidFail84]

I've uploaded the only video I have of myself serving - it's not ideal, but it's all I have for now. There are four serves to the deuce side and four to the ad side. My mate was holding my phone and recording, which is why there isn't more footage - it was nice of him to do it and I wasn't going to ask him to continue for ages. I was having trouble with my ball toss this day which is not normally such an issue. The first serve in the first video is probably the best example of my regular first serve.

I hit all of my shots with an eastern forehand grip, including my serve. Looking at it frame-by-frame (the fps is very low), I can see that I am getting some pronation on my serves. Most of the serves are fairly flat, though the last had some topspin on it. I can hit slice and kick serves too, also with the eastern grip, but I didn't try any for this video, though the final serve on the second video had some topspin on it.

Would you consider this a 'waiter's serve' due to the grip?

 

[jm1980]

Would you consider this a 'waiter's serve' due to the grip?

What does this remind you of?

 

[SinjinCooper]

I hit all of my shots with an eastern forehand grip, including my serve.

Don't do this.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

If you put the tennis balls in your left pocket, you wouldn't have to transfer your racquet to your left hand, pull out a ball with your right, and transfer the racquet back to the right while simultaneously transferring the ball to your left.

So you also BH volley with an E FH grip? Which racquet face do you use? The same one as your FH or the opposite?

In any case, using an E FH grip for everything seems extremely awkward, not to mention non-existent at the higher levels. They all use Continental. I suggest you follow suit if you're interested in long-term improvement.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Switch to a continental.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Yup, WTE is evident. "Pronation" happens way too early.

Serena and Boris (Becker) have used an Aussie (semi-continental) for their first serve. Conti grip for their 2nd. You might try the Aussie if the conti grip is too frustrating for you. Better yet, try a few serves with a more extreme grip, like an Eastern BH. Then switch to a continental grip for while. After some practice, you should find that it is more versatile than your Eastern FH grip.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Switch to a continental.

Absolutely.

And to build on this, turn that right shoulder about 20 degrees more during the crouch and also toss the ball maybe 6" forward into the court.

This will promote a more inside out swing path, which will give you a little more overspin action that helps to keep the ball in the service box with acurracy and power!

 

[RapidFail84]

What does this remind you of?

Yup, WTE is evident. "Pronation" happens way too early.

Serena and Boris (Becker) have used an Aussie (semi-continental) for their first serve. Conti grip for their 2nd. You might try the Aussie if the conti grip is too frustrating for you. Better yet, try a few serves with a more extreme grip, like an Eastern BH. Then switch to a continental grip for while. After some practice, you should find that it is more versatile than your Eastern FH grip.

Ah, so the racquet is coming through on-edge but pronation is happening too early - interesting, thanks.

 

[RapidFail84]

If you put the tennis balls in your left pocket, you wouldn't have to transfer your racquet to your left hand, pull out a ball with your right, and transfer the racquet back to the right while simultaneously transferring the ball to your left.

So you also BH volley with an E FH grip? Which racquet face do you use? The same one as your FH or the opposite?

In any case, using an E FH grip for everything seems extremely awkward, not to mention non-existent at the higher levels. They all use Continental. I suggest you follow suit if you're interested in long-term improvement.

Well done for noticing this! I lack dexterity in my left hand and have trouble taking balls out of my pockets with it - if I put any balls in that pocket, I put my racquet under my arm and reach across my body with my right hand - super awkward!

Yes, every shot with the EFH grip, I use the opposite side of the racquet for the backhand, so I have to turn my wrist more to get the right angle for all backhands including volleys. My topspin backhand (single-handed) is probably my weakest shot, while my slice backhand is possibly my strongest.
I've been practising using a EBH grip for my topspin single-handed backhand and continental for my slice, but neither are reliable enough to use in a match yet.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Ah, so the racquet is coming through on-edge but pronation is happening too early - interesting, thanks.

Exactly.

 

[Shroud]

What does this remind you of?

Foot fault??

 

[Chadillac]

Keep the balls in your left pocket so you dont have to take your hand off the grip.

You need more front knee bend (left), you seem to lean more than bend, it will give you a little loft on the ones that hit the net, should work

 

[RapidFail84]

Foot fault??

Yep, that too!

 

[RapidFail84]

Keep the balls in your left pocket so you dont have to take your hand off the grip.

You need more front knee bend (left), you seem to lean more than bend, it will give you a little loft on the ones that hit the net, should work

Thanks, I will try to do both these things. Hitting the net generally isn't a regular problem for me, so the first video isn't the best example. Now that I watch it again I can see what you mean about the lean.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

need to just use a conti grip. eastern forehand grip won't get you far. 0 leg usage so I would work on more knee bend and getting more thrust from the ground up. that's where power comes from.

 

[heninfan99]

If you want to limit yourself that's fine. This is fine for tennis in the park.

Eventually you may want to improve but that's up to you.

 

[RapidFail84]

If you want to limit yourself that's fine. This is fine for tennis in the park.

Eventually you may want to improve but that's up to you.

I do want to improve - I am enrolling for some lessons soon. At the moment my first serve is one of the stronger parts of my game - my topspin groundstrokes are more problematic. I want to change to a continental grip serve eventually, but it's not the highest priority at the moment. The little experimentation I've had with using a continental grip for my serve so far has been disasterous - less than 10% of serves landing in the box, less power, way too much spin and a painful shoulder. I'm not going to try it again without a coach because I don't want to injure myself.

 

[mbm0912]

Spin your body 360 degrees after you make contact.

 

[RapidFail84]

need to just use a conti grip. eastern forehand grip won't get you far. 0 leg usage so I would work on more knee bend and getting more thrust from the ground up. that's where power comes from.

Not that I'm an expert, but I believe the main benefit of more knee bend is greater height on impact and the difference in power is fairly minimal. That said, I agree that more knee bend is another thing I should work on as a higher contact point can only be a good thing.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

power comes from the lower body and core. using a good solid knee bend with allow the kinetic energy to store in the lower half of the body, then as the body coils up and gets into the trophy position and you start the racquet drop, the energy stored in the lower half of the body is going to accel upwards and go into your hitting arm, then through the racquet and then into the ball.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

(a) either listen to these guys (i prefer their advice, works for me at the 4.5/5.0 level (and rumor has it at the 7.0 level), but doesn't have the pizzazz of the next option)

Don't do this.

Switch to a continental.

(b) or listen to this guy, and make @oserver proud

Spin your body 360 degrees after you make contact.

if you do go with option (b), please post videos daily

 

[RapidFail84]

Spin your body 360 degrees after you make contact.

Haha - I've seen that thread. I'm certainly not making any claims about an eastern forehand grip serve being the way to go, but for my current level of play, it works for me reasonably well.

 

[RapidFail84]

Yup, WTE is evident. "Pronation" happens way too early.

Serena and Boris (Becker) have used an Aussie (semi-continental) for their first serve. Conti grip for their 2nd. You might try the Aussie if the conti grip is too frustrating for you. Better yet, try a few serves with a more extreme grip, like an Eastern BH. Then switch to a continental grip for while. After some practice, you should find that it is more versatile than your Eastern FH grip.

Sorry for my ignorance - what does WTE stand for? Is the Aussie grip halfway between continental and eastern forehand?

 

[atp2015]

What does this remind you of?

But where is my drink on it?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Sorry for my ignorance - what does WTE stand for? Is the Aussie grip halfway between continental and eastern forehand?

WTE = waiter's tray error. Yes, Aussie FH grip is halfway. It is a semi-conti grip.

 

[Dartagnan64]

If you are dextrous enough to toss a ball to the same spot with your left hand, you should be dextrous enough to pull a ball out of your pocket. Ridiculous excuse.

But I agree with most of the pointers here: Waiter's tray serve partially due to grip (although many a conti server hits with a waiter's tray approach). Not enough shoulder rotation in the prep. But good elbow flexion and ESR to get you some power even though you totally skip out on the added benefits of legs, shoulder turn and pronation.

 

[mbm0912]

BPE = Ball Pocket Error

 

[RapidFail84]

If you are dextrous enough to toss a ball to the same spot with your left hand, you should be dextrous enough to pull a ball out of your pocket. Ridiculous excuse.

But I agree with most of the pointers here: Waiter's tray serve partially due to grip (although many a conti server hits with a waiter's tray approach). Not enough shoulder rotation in the prep. But good elbow flexion and ESR to get you some power even though you totally skip out on the added benefits of legs, shoulder turn and pronation.

Not saying I couldn't do it, but I've tried it before and it feels very unnatural - it's something I will need to practice to get better at.

 

[SinjinCooper]

Not saying I couldn't do it, but I've tried it before and it feels very unnatural - it's something I will need to practice to get better at.

Welcome to sports.

 

[Friedman Whip]

Not saying I couldn't do it, but I've tried it before and it feels very unnatural - it's something I will need to practice to get better at.

It won't be easy. As you hear it said often these days, 'Believe me. I can tell you that.'
Seriously, since you are now psychologically invested in your EF serve you will most likely be continually asking yourself if the change is really worth it. Matter of fact, my prediction is that you will never really make the change. But of course you definitely should.

 

[RapidFail84]

It won't be easy. As you hear it said often these days, 'Believe me. I can tell you that.'
Seriously, since you are now psychologically invested in your EF serve you will most likely be continually asking yourself if the change is really worth it. Matter of fact, my prediction is that you will never really make the change. But of course you definitely should.

I don't question that changing to a continental grip could/should be an improvement in the long run. It's a change I want to make at some point, but at the moment my first serve is one of the stronger parts of my game as I tend to win a lot of free points from it (I recently lost 4-6, 6-7 to a player I'd probably describe as a 3.5 and only had my serve broken twice, hitting 14 aces in the process). I'm about to start 7 weeks of tennis coaching (small class) where I hope to improve on several aspects of my game, including my serve, but for the moment, my topspin forehand and particularly my topspin backhand are a higher priority.

 

[Chas Tennis]

If you want to stick with a Waiter's Tray serve this is the only video I know of that addresses improving the WT.

Hammer that Serve, Pat Dougherty.

Hammer that Serve refers to the Waiter's Tray technique. He also discusses the 'advanced serve' technique.

 

[LeeD]

I'm not advocating eastern forehand grip serves, but Aussie grip serves can be helpful for SOME player's for flat fast serves with little effort and lots of accuracy.

 

[TennisDawg]

I'm not advocating eastern forehand grip serves, but Aussie grip serves can be helpful for SOME player's for flat fast serves with little effort and lots of accuracy.

I've been trying that recently. It's the knuckle of index finger in between bevel 2 and 3 correct?

 

[LeeD]

Envision a universal VOLLEY grip, that is continental. Now twist it a slight bit, less than a full bevel towards forehand.

 

[Friedman Whip]

I've been trying that recently. It's the knuckle of index finger in between bevel 2 and 3 correct?

Correct.

 

[TheBoom]

Get that left shoulder up higher than the right shoulder as you toss the ball and push off more with your knees (more knee bend)

 

[LeeD]

Is that THEBOOM who used to post here 4 year's ago? Welcome back, long time no hear from......

 

[RapidFail84]

Update: After having no luck trying to serve with a continental grip by myself, I've enrolled in some small group tennis lessons. Three lessons in so far, the most recent being the first focused on the serve. The biggest improvements to my game at this stage are my topspin forehand and backhands - I've switched from the eastern grip to semi-western for the forehand and am enjoying the extra topspin and control. I'm hitting my backhand with a continental grip - still not quite right, but better than the eastern forehand grip I was using before. I'm still slicing with a EFH grip - been trying with continental but hitting way too many unforced errors with it, hopefully we'll cover the slice soon. I'm struggling with hitting forehand volleys and overheads with the continental grip - everything goes further to the left than I want it to and I never seem to have my wrist in the right position to hit a flat ball, hopefully I'll sort it out in time.

Hitting the kick serve with a continental grip actually feels quite natural now, but it still feels weird for the slice and flat serves, but at least I'm getting some in the box. The biggest challenge at the moment is trying to control the direction of my serves and hit them flat, as well as tossing the ball to 1 o'clock rather than 11:30, which also feels weird. I'll post another video soon.

 

[Wander]

I don't know how anyone else switched from Eastern FH to Continental on serve, but the way I did it was simply hitting nothing but serves for several hours for several days until it no longer felt awkward.

 

[Bender]

Update: After having no luck trying to serve with a continental grip by myself, I've enrolled in some small group tennis lessons. Three lessons in so far, the most recent being the first focused on the serve. The biggest improvements to my game at this stage are my topspin forehand and backhands - I've switched from the eastern grip to semi-western for the forehand and am enjoying the extra topspin and control. I'm hitting my backhand with a continental grip - still not quite right, but better than the eastern forehand grip I was using before. I'm still slicing with a EFH grip - been trying with continental but hitting way too many unforced errors with it, hopefully we'll cover the slice soon. I'm struggling with hitting forehand volleys and overheads with the continental grip - everything goes further to the left than I want it to and I never seem to have my wrist in the right position to hit a flat ball, hopefully I'll sort it out in time.

Hitting the kick serve with a continental grip actually feels quite natural now, but it still feels weird for the slice and flat serves, but at least I'm getting some in the box. The biggest challenge at the moment is trying to control the direction of my serves and hit them flat, as well as tossing the ball to 1 o'clock rather than 11:30, which also feels weird. I'll post another video soon.

1HBH with a FH eastern grip...yikes...how you managed to avoid shoulder and wrist injuries all this time is a point of study in itself...

That said, slicing with the EFH grip isn't too bad--there's a risk that your slice may float a bit too much, but if you can keep it in and aim it well, then you should not prioritise a conti BH slice too much.

Nadal uses an Aussie grip on his BH slice as well. Not quite an EFH like yours is, but his grip is more open than most other pros' slice grips, and he happens to have one of the better slices on tour.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

i would still teach conti for the slice backhand 100%. you don't want to float it too much but rather drive it so it stays low and skids hard as it hits the court.

an eastern forehand grip on the 1 hander sounds very very awkward.

 

[RapidFail84]

1HBH with a FH eastern grip...yikes...how you managed to avoid shoulder and wrist injuries all this time is a point of study in itself...

That said, slicing with the EFH grip isn't too bad--there's a risk that your slice may float a bit too much, but if you can keep it in and aim it well, then you should not prioritise a conti BH slice too much.

Nadal uses an Aussie grip on his BH slice as well. Not quite an EFH like yours is, but his grip is more open than most other pros' slice grips, and he happens to have one of the better slices on tour.

Never any shoulder or wrist injuries from tennis, but my EFH grip backhand was always my weakest shot. Problem now is I don't yet have a feel for the correct wrist position, so I'm spraying some backhands into the back fence, while others I hit into my own side of the court, though I'm also hitting some clean winners and forcing errors with it too. My slice is still by far the more dependable shot, though. With the EFH grip I can hit a deep floating slice, a low skidding slice and (especially) a banana slice with lots of sidespin - other players and coaches have commented that it's a weapon. Hitting it with the continental grip I get a lot more power, but less spin and control.

 

[RapidFail84]

i would still teach conti for the slice backhand 100%. you don't want to float it too much but rather drive it so it stays low and skids hard as it hits the court.

an eastern forehand grip on the 1 hander sounds very very awkward.

It is, but that's the way I've always hit my backhand - I've always used an eastern grip for every shot, but the topspin backhand was without question my worst shot. Switching grips between shots still feels odd to me (I often look at my hand after the shot to check what grip I was using for my backhand), but hitting the backhand with the continental grip is already feeling more natural and is definitely more effective.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

once you get comfortable with conti, then you should try switching to the eastern backhand which is more or less the gold standard for 1 handers.

 

[watungga]

OP, if you decide to do pronation serve, face the right side fence and toss the ball in front of you.
This way, your Eastern grip won't do you any justice.
Use continental grp, do the waiter's tray with it, and then pronate to punch the ball to your left side.

 

[SinjinCooper]

OP, if you decide to do pronation serve, face the right side fence and toss the ball in front of you.
This way, your Eastern grip won't do you any justice.
Use continental grp, do the waiter's tray with it, and then pronate to punch the ball to your left side.

Not this.

 

[LeeD]

I don't know how anyone else switched from Eastern FH to Continental on serve, but the way I did it was simply hitting nothing but serves for several hours for several days until it no longer felt awkward.

I suspect we ALL made the switch from eastern forehand serves to conti serves sometime in our tennis career. For some with training, it might be within a few months of starting tennis. For me, it took a whole year, and for most of my buds who started tennis when I did, never.

 

[watungga]

Not this.

What part of the post you don't like?

 

[LeeD]

What part of the post you don't like?

To me, too many player's are stuck at backscratch, and can only get 3/4 power without learning the full loop swing, which is a 360 degree serve swing, starting from trophy with the racket pointed AT the sky above your head...or slightly forwards of vertical.