Please Critique My Serve (Video)

[crystal_clear]

I tried to fix the palm by a compact take-back replacing the big take-back. The shadow serve looked good and felt good in the video. When I tried with the ball tossing, I forgot to turn shoulder and I was rushed to hit the ball. My take-back was smaller and the open palm still there though a little bit late to appear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZh-otVj8p0

 

[crystal_clear]

To fix open palm....
Get your racket at trophy so the rackethead POINTS straight up at the sky and the butt points straight down at the ground. Use a construction level if you have to, but make it straight up and down!

I can understand to straight up the racket at trophy pose. What about before the trophy pose? My friend mentioned to put the racket head pointing to the front until the trophy pose. My old racket head is pointing to everywhere.

Girlfriend...
You're still using a hybrid grip between conti and EFH. Even with that grip, you should trophy with the racket pointing straight up, not back behind you.
If you concentrate on just the trophy pose, racket pointing straigth up, butt facing straight down, you will have closed off your palms.

You are probably right. I just found out I hit overheads with open palm(racket facing the sky) too. Does it mean I didn't use continental grip when hitting overheads?

Sorry, forgot to add...
You are laying back your wrist during the serve motion. DON'T !!!
Do not **** your wrist. Your wrist will naturally **** if you start your motion with the correct trophy pose.

What do you mean by laying back my wrist?

 

[crystal_clear]

Your serve looks quite good, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

If you do want to groove a better stroke with less of an open palm, you should try going through your motions really slow (like over a minute to complete a serve) to build muscle memory. More you practice without getting that muscle memory down will just end up working against you since you are further and further ingraning your present swing.

The shadow serve is very different from the real serve with the ball tossing involved.

 

[crystal_clear]

read post #5
i mean the racquet hoop could be slanted foward to avoid slanting backward whichleads to the open palm. does that explain it better?

I got your point.

 

[crystal_clear]

congratz CC on having the courage to post your serve and make yourself vulnerable to the community. i think you have a wonderful service toss and the toss, if not the most important, is certainly one of the most critical functions of the serve. so you are already more than half way there.

take it from me, someone who is also working diligently on service motion, you definitely want to work on one thing at a time. as you make the desired changes to your service motion to discover desired results, i suggest you slow down your motion in order to encourage muscle memory instead of pace. pace will come naturally as your technique improves and is not something to even think about.

with that said, one modification i made to my serve which lead to immediate returns on investment was pronation. presently your racquet, just before you swing to hit the ball, is held like a waiter holding a tray. holding the racquet this way diminishes greatly your ability to generate pace on the ball. what you want to do is swing up at the ball with the edge of the racquet just as if the racquet was an axe and the ball was a branch of a tree that you are trying to bury that axe into. start off hitting the ball while in midair with the edge of the racquet until you become comfortable with the stroke. you don't have to swing hard or anything, just nice gently axe swings to the ball after you toss it.

once you become comfortable swinging up to the ball with the edge of the racquet, just before hitting the ball with the edge, snap the racquet head open such that the strings of the racquet his flush with the ball. this motion is called pronation and is crucial in maintaining power and control during your serve. once you learn pronation, you will be able to learn flat, kicking and sliding serves as the dynamic introduced to the ball revolves around the the technique of pronation.

here is a video of me working on very slow deliberate pronation technique. tune in at the 1min mark. everything before 1 min is getting the rust off and trying to slow down. i will be the first to admit that i am no where near a great server however i think my video is a good example of how amateurs should go about slowing things down and working on a specific aspect of their motion. give feedback if you would an let me know if it was helpful at all.

Thank you thebuffman for the encouragement. I need to work on the pronation next as I serve with spin most of the time. Your serve looks effortless... I mean you have a lot of potential to improve.

 

[crystal_clear]

Hey buddy, I just looked at the video you posted. It seems to me that your motion is not fluid enough. When you take your racket back behind your head, it looks like you stop the motion there and then start to accelerate your racquet from there.

You're a muscular guy and it looks like your flexibility of your triceps isn't very good. Besides working on your service motion I would recommend to stretch the triceps every day. That will allow you to take your racquet a little deeper behind your head and this will generate a better swing.

Then, I recommend that you also practice to make your swing more fluid. To achieve that just take your racquet and shadow swing without stopping. I couldn't find a video right now to demonstrate that, but maybe you can use this video to understand what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P73bREL4TdM Watch what he's doing at 0:58 - 1:05. Try that with your racquet instead of the sock. After you take the racquet up, there is NO stoppage anymore. Just a fluid swing.

I hope that helps!

How does the sock drills fix the open palm problem? I don't get it. Could anyone explain this?

 

[tricky]

Most people, when first learning to serve, try to map their experience with the FH to their serve. As a result, they treat the motion as a "upward forehand" which leads to the open palm (and forcing and freezing the "trophy pose.")

The sock drill mimics how you should really be swinging with the racquet. You're no longer holding a racquet, so your brain isn't trying to "forehand" your serve. You no longer have a desire to hit the ball with an open palm. Second, the way you're holding the sock is more or less akin to a continental grip. Therefore you get comfortable swinging with that grip. Third, if you did try to open palm/waitress serve, it would feel very unnatural and you may get hit in the back with the ball-in-the-sock.

 

[Nellie]

I tried to fix the palm by a compact take-back replacing the big take-back. The shadow serve looked good and felt good in the video. When I tried with the ball tossing, I forgot to turn shoulder and I was rushed to hit the ball. My take-back was smaller and the open palm still there though a little bit late to appear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZh-otVj8p0

In this video, you definitely look like you are serving with a laid back wrist (you are leading with the handle) to that you are opening the face of the racquet and slicing under

I would suggest thinking about leading with the top of the raqcuet

 

[crystal_clear]

Most people, when first learning to serve, try to map their experience with the FH to their serve. As a result, they treat the motion as a "upward forehand" which leads to the open palm (and forcing and freezing the "trophy pose.")

The sock drill mimics how you should really be swinging with the racquet. You're no longer holding a racquet, so your brain isn't trying to "forehand" your serve. You no longer have a desire to hit the ball with an open palm. Second, the way you're holding the sock is more or less akin to a continental grip. Therefore you get comfortable swinging with that grip. Third, if you did try to open palm/waitress serve, it would feel very unnatural and you may get hit in the back with the ball-in-the-sock.

I did try the sock drill. I came to understand the sock should be between elbow and head. It I hold the sock open palm, the sock would be behind me not between elbow and head (from the video).

So I feel the sock is like the handle? The compact lift-up is like that. Am I right?

 

[crystal_clear]

In this video, you definitely look like you are serving with a laid back wrist (you are leading with the handle) to that you are opening the face of the racquet and slicing under

I would suggest thinking about leading with the top of the raqcuet

I don't get it. What do you mean by leading the handle and leading the racket? Could you elaborate on this?

 

[Nellie]

I would say that you are slicing the ball by holding the waiter's grip (wrist bent backward) at contact to open the face the racquet (racquet face looks like this \). Thus, at contact, you are hitting under the ball (instead of through the ball) to lift it up with underspin. Notice, for example, that when you hit the serve, there is a swishing (from brushing down at the ball) and not not "pop" sound you are making at contact. Also note that your serve dies at contact from the other side. Slicing under the ball probably helps you get the server over the net, but will severely limit your improvement (if you hit the ball remotely harder, it will go way long!) Also, if you have the muscle memory for slicing through the serve, there is no way for you to change the other things in your serve that need to improve.

Sometime, try to hit the ball as hard and flat as you can to get the feel for hitting the ball

 

[chico9166]

Crystal
You can type in "breaking down a serve hitch, and rebuilding" on youtube, (with the Serve Doctor) and he will take you through a series of progressions that might help. The premise is that, the shoulders are "quitting", when hitches arise.

 

[crystal_clear]

I would say that you are slicing the ball by holding the waiter's grip (wrist bent backward) at contact to open the face the racquet (racquet face looks like this \). Thus, at contact, you are hitting under the ball (instead of through the ball) to lift it up with underspin. Notice, for example, that when you hit the serve, there is a swishing (from brushing down at the ball) and not not "pop" sound you are making at contact. Also note that your serve dies at contact from the other side. Slicing under the ball probably helps you get the server over the net, but will severely limit your improvement (if you hit the ball remotely harder, it will go way long!) Also, if you have the muscle memory for slicing through the serve, there is no way for you to change the other things in your serve that need to improve.

Sometime, try to hit the ball as hard and flat as you can to get the feel for hitting the ball

I see. Thank you. I never notice this problem before until now. One of my teammates serves with underspin and now I know how she did it.

Crystal
You can type in "breaking down a serve hitch, and rebuilding" on youtube, (with the Serve Doctor) and he will take you through a series of progressions that might help. The premise is that, the shoulders are "quitting", when hitches arise.

Thank you chico.
I saw this video before but this time makes a lots of sense to me. It is a good way to practice shadow serve and pronation against a fence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um5q7Lx107k

Another good video from Doctor Serve: Simplified Spring-loaded Serve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixx-MCC7D88

Serve Doctor's "Cylinder" Drill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c06ToXPyJYA

HammerthatServe should fix my problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjXJGsRtm08

 

[larry10s]

crystal clear all of pat dougherty's serve material is superb. also kudos to you for responding to posts by quoting them. even if something was not helpful you acknowledge that you gave it your time and consideration. as a poster i liked that.

 

[crystal_clear]

crystal clear all of pat dougherty's serve material is superb. also kudos to you for responding to posts by quoting them. even if something was not helpful you acknowledge that you gave it your time and consideration. as a poster i liked that.

Thanks for the kudos. I tried the new serve today by mimicking the girl in the Simplified Spring-loaded Serve video. I feel I serve harder though not consistent yet. The timing was off a little bit when I changed to the compact take-back. I realized that the toss was too low and I had to rush to the contact. I need to video myself to see how I really hit. I am happy with the progress though I lost all three matches tonight.

I saw all the doc. video before but this time they make a lot of senses to me. They seem to target my problems specifically.

 

[crystal_clear]

I tried my new serve again in the match and struggled to put the balls in.

At last, I was able to find the right feeling when I served in. The serve has more power with pace. I need to remind myself to toss high and forward...

The good news is that the old serve (the big winding down motion) almost gone. Not sure about the open palm hitch.

 

[larry10s]

after just a few days of experimenting to try the "new "serve in a game was courageous but definitely the right thing to do. you do not want to go back to the old serve in pressure situation because over time you need to develop confidence in the new serve

 

[thebuffman]

I tried my new serve again in the match and struggled to put the balls in.

At last, I was able to find the right feeling when I served in. The serve has more power with pace. I need to remind myself to toss high and forward...

The good news is that the old serve (the big winding down motion) almost gone. Not sure about the open palm hitch.

hiya CC. i would like to report similar results after buying TSD's $18 download and applying the concepts. it took me a little getting used to, and quite honestly i am still adapting but wow is it worth it. i was playing a singles match last night against a very athletic 20 year old who gets to everything. i went right to serving with TSD's method. at first i wasn't getting the response i expected and then i noticed it was due to laziness as i was not tightening the spring and pulling as hard as i could across my pectoral (chest) muscles. so i toss the ball out front over the left foot, get all the weight up on the front foot with a nice arched bow in the front of my body, keep the tossing arm stretched straight up, twist the torso as far as i can, and stretch the pectorals to its limit. BLAM! sounded like a gun went off when i hit that thing. needless to say, it never made it back over the net.

at one point in the set the score was 5-0 and i was serving for the set, i ripped another one right at him which didn't come back. the kid goes, "HOW CAN YOU LOSE WITH THAT!!" slapping the ball into the fence out of frustration <exact words>. i chuckled but kept it restrained because it is always best to be a modest winner. i finished the set 6-0 and thank the kid for his time.

the only problem i am having right now is trying to figure out how to slow it down for second serves until i can develop a slice or kick. i double faulted a few times which i don't like. i could have resorted to my old style on 2nd serve and just got it in play but i really wanted to maintain this new form homogeneously throughout the match. there is so much loading going on though that it is hard to serve slow? perhaps i shouldn't wind as much??? not sure.

anyhow just wanted to say that i think we both struck gold with TSD's method. as we continue our familiarity with it, i can see a very very bright future.

 

[crystal_clear]

after just a few days of experimenting to try the "new "serve in a game was courageous but definitely the right thing to do. you do not want to go back to the old serve in pressure situation because over time you need to develop confidence in the new serve

I have to pretend not seeing my partners' frustration when I double faulted.

 

[crystal_clear]

hiya CC. i would like to report similar results after buying TSD's $18 download and applying the concepts. it took me a little getting used to, and quite honestly i am still adapting but wow is it worth it. i was playing a singles match last night against a very athletic 20 year old who gets to everything. i went right to serving with TSD's method. at first i wasn't getting the response i expected and then i noticed it was due to laziness as i was not tightening the spring and pulling as hard as i could across my pectoral (chest) muscles. so i toss the ball out front over the left foot, get all the weight up on the front foot with a nice arched bow in the front of my body, keep the tossing arm stretched straight up, twist the torso as far as i can, and stretch the pectorals to its limit. BLAM! sounded like a gun went off when i hit that thing. needless to say, it never made it back over the net.

at one point in the set the score was 5-0 and i was serving for the set, i ripped another one right at him which didn't come back. the kid goes, "HOW CAN YOU LOSE WITH THAT!!" slapping the ball into the fence out of frustration <exact words>. i chuckled but kept it restrained because it is always best to be a modest winner. i finished the set 6-0 and thank the kid for his time.

the only problem i am having right now is trying to figure out how to slow it down for second serves until i can develop a slice or kick. i double faulted a few times which i don't like. i could have resorted to my old style on 2nd serve and just got it in play but i really wanted to maintain this new form homogeneously throughout the match. there is so much loading going on though that it is hard to serve slow? perhaps i shouldn't wind as much??? not sure.

anyhow just wanted to say that i think we both struck gold with TSD's method. as we continue our familiarity with it, i can see a very very bright future.

You can load a lots of energy if you tight yourself then release at once. Nice to know you made progress.

As for 2nd serve, I toss ball above my head and turn more torso to face back... I am still learning though.

 

[crystal_clear]

I am so disappointed when I see my open palm still in the video. The power I added to the serve is from the torso turned. I didn't realize the palm turned open during the serve motion. It happens automatically without my conscience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtu4d90A_E0

 

[crystal_clear]

In the Breaking down a serve "hitch" video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um5q7Lx107k Pat mentioned the shoulder is quiting when hitch happens... What does "shoulder quiting "mean? Is it similar to my open palm hitch?

 

[tricky]

The power I added to the serve is from the torso turned

It looks your trunk opens up early as you transition out of the racquet drop. Notice your left arm/hand as you follow through. It's across your upper torso rather than the left side of your body, which indicates that your body's trying to prevent the torso from overrotating.

If that's so, then you'll find yourself hitting the ball with more of an open palm.

As you toss, you want to load onto your front foot. Specifically, the balls of your front foot.

 

[larry10s]

In the Breaking down a serve "hitch" video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um5q7Lx107k Pat mentioned the shoulder is quiting when hitch happens... What does "shoulder quiting "mean? Is it similar to my open palm hitch?

try this. start your serve with your wrist flexed and turned in.force yourself to hold this position all the way until contact.basically you are trying to get the feel of your hand and racquet moving thru the area where your palm opens up with you forcing it not to. this will not be your ultimate serve as there should not be tension in your wrist when you serve.its just trying to get the feel of having your wrist in a better position.
another thing you could do is buy a small football.practice throwing it with your wrist flexed thruout the throwing motion. just my 2 cents.
i hope you try the above and give feedback

 

[crystal_clear]

It looks your trunk opens up early as you transition out of the racquet drop. Notice your left arm/hand as you follow through. It's across your upper torso rather than the left side of your body, which indicates that your body's trying to prevent the torso from overrotating.

If that's so, then you'll find yourself hitting the ball with more of an open palm.

As you toss, you want to load onto your front foot. Specifically, the balls of your front foot.

Good observation, I didn't notice that.

 

[crystal_clear]

try this. start your serve with your wrist flexed and turned in.force yourself to hold this position all the way until contact.basically you are trying to get the feel of your hand and racquet moving thru the area where your palm opens up with you forcing it not to. this will not be your ultimate serve as there should not be tension in your wrist when you serve.its just trying to get the feel of having your wrist in a better position.
another thing you could do is buy a small football.practice throwing it with your wrist flexed thruout the throwing motion. just my 2 cents.
i hope you try the above and give feedback

Throwing a football? ...Mission impossible. I might be able to accomplish that after I learn the proper serve form.

 

[crystal_clear]

My serve was off during the matches last night. I couldn't turn torso...Toss is inconsistent...open palm is consistent.

I am in great pain now. My serve is even worse than the pre-change state, soft and inconsistent.

I guess the right muscle memory is not formed yet. It is hard to carry out an action simply depending on the conscious reminder. I need more practice.

 

[mcutilize]

i had this problem when i was 11 my coach used to call this serve like a waiters hand or something

 

[thebuffman]

...i saw your video and recommend a dose of this courtesy of the serve doctor

edit: the overall thing to think about throughout the entire motion from the racquet drop is "rolling the forearm over the elbow" to hammer the ball with the head of the racquet. the hammer concept is outstanding.

 

[larry10s]

Throwing a football? ...Mission impossible. I might be able to accomplish that after I learn the proper serve form.

its really the other way around.after you learn to throw the football correctly your serve form will improve dramatically

 

[Power Player]

Your palm definitely turns up before contact. This will not allow you to swing as fast as you could because the body has to pull down. This will also prevent you from getting spin which is nice to have as a safety net. You do many things well though. You have a good throwing motion and seem to coil your body well.

I would make sure your grip is on continental try some serves just from the racquet on edge position. Then swing to contact by twisting your forearm out(pronating). You an also hit a couple serves with the edge of your racquet to get the feeling of approaching on edge. Another good drill is to hit with the wrong side of the racquet a couple times then turn that forearm right before contact to hit with the right side.
The right way is definitely not the easy way but i hope this helps. I give a good explanation in my video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zM5yRBjq1c

Nice serve. It looks like your toss starts before mine, and this could be my problem. When I toss the ball, I am already in my trophy pose, whereas your racquet is still facing down. I would imagine this could be a drastic difference in power and consistency?

 

[larry10s]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoFosDCqTJM
dont take this verbatim but i hope it shows you if you throw better you will serve better.

 

[crystal_clear]

...i saw your video and recommend a dose of this courtesy of the serve doctor

edit: the overall thing to think about throughout the entire motion from the racquet drop is "rolling the forearm over the elbow" to hammer the ball with the head of the racquet. the hammer concept is outstanding.

That is an excellent video by Pat.

Your thinking about the serve motion is crystal clear.

 

[crystal_clear]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoFosDCqTJM
dont take this verbatim but i hope it shows you if you throw better you will serve better.

I watched Sonic Serve again and it explains how to pitch a ball. It is just like the serve motion. Pitch, pitch...

 

[crystal_clear]

My new serve is on and off(power). I do need to take lessons on serve once the outdoor court becomes available.

Finding a fence to try the hammer motion sounds a good idea.