Please critique my slice BH

[IowaGuy]

I’m trying to improve my slice BH. In the past I just basically floated it back, to buy time or to attempt to neutralize my opponent by taking away pace. Now trying to develop an offensive slice: lower to the net, with more pace, and (ideally) skidding low through the other side of the court.

Trying to model a knifing slice somewhat after Henman/Graf, i.e. not as much sidespin as Fed/Nadal, though my natural stroke does have a little more sidespin than Graf.

Technical points I’m consciously focusing on, while trying to deal with 43-year-old footwork:
- racket head above shoulder on take-back
- hitting ball out in front of me
- weight transfer into front foot
- non-hitting arm extending behind as counterbalance, to keep from over-rotating
- good follow-through with hitting arm

Setup: ProStaff 97s, 350SW

Any thoughts/critiques would be appreciated, thanks!

Slice BH rearview

Slice BH sideview

 

[Wise one]

Stop the goddamn hopping! You are wasting energy!

Otherwise, it looks OK. You'll get more power by using an eastern backhand grip, though (one quarter turn to the left).

 

[SinjinCooper]

Keep hopping. Lively footwork is the cornerstone of all > 4.0 tennis.

 

[Wise one]

Keep hopping. Lively footwork is the cornerstone of all > 4.0 tennis.

Not just 'no', but 'hell no'!

 

[SinjinCooper]

In general, very nice looking stroke. Aim to keep the wrist a little firmer, and the angle between the racquet and forearm more constant from takeback through contact, and into the follow through.

That'll keep you from chopping at the ball, and will increase your consistency of trajectory quite a lot. This'll require you to bend that lead knee a little more as you approach contact. Stick the name of your favorite slicing pro into google with "(name) slice backhand," and you'll see that angle is very consistent among them all, except on very difficult balls. This consistency is why. Eliminate the wrist action, and you eliminate a lot of the randomness. Let the big muscles do the work.

 

[Chadillac]

I’m trying to improve my slice BH. In the past I just basically floated it back, to buy time or to attempt to neutralize my opponent by taking away pace. Now trying to develop an offensive slice: lower to the net, with more pace, and (ideally) skidding low through the other side of the court.

Trying to model a knifing slice somewhat after Henman/Graf, i.e. not as much sidespin as Fed/Nadal, though my natural stroke does have a little more sidespin than Graf.

Technical points I’m consciously focusing on, while trying to deal with 43-year-old footwork:
- racket head above shoulder on take-back
- hitting ball out in front of me
- weight transfer into front foot
- non-hitting arm extending behind as counterbalance, to keep from over-rotating
- good follow-through with hitting arm

Setup: ProStaff 97s, 350SW

Any thoughts/critiques would be appreciated, thanks!

Slice BH rearview

Slice BH sideview

I watched the first half of the first video, one thing i noticed was your finishing point. The one you missed, look at where you racket finished, high and head down. Then look at the ones you hit perfectly, the finishing point was the same height as the contact. You can see when you finish higher, you get a little bit of float vs the penetration.

 

[Chadillac]

Stop the goddamn hopping! You are wasting energy!

I dont see him pulling it off on the summer hardcourts in florida for long, but he is wearing pants, heat shirt and playing outdoors the day after xmas. Probably just staying warm, i that too when it gets in the 50's, gotta keep moving

Its good footwork though

 

[NuBas]

Looks to be working but you don't have to lock out your elbow like that at the end, you can keep it bent.

What I would suggest is quicker preparation with higher take-back, chin almost on shoulder and racquet head up by your ear. All one motion and simultaneous with turning of entire upper and lower body.

Right now what I'm seeing is a tiny hitch cause you begin low by your hip then bring it higher. You don't have to take your racquet backwards so much, you can just take it up high near your ear but still in front of your body, what gets the racquet to go behind/back is your turning of the upper body. Then you can lean into your shot and release your arm.

 

[Wise one]

Looks to be working but you don't have to lock out your elbow like that at the end, you can keep it bent.

Just let it flow, right!

 

[Wise one]

Just let it flow, right!

 

[fuzz nation]

Floating the slice too much is often what happens if we go out ahead of us too far to make contact. If you have a continental grip and not something in the neighborhood of eastern forehand, that's a big plus. Try doing a couple of slow-motion swings with your backhand slice and watch the racquet face as it progresses forward. As it gets out ahead of you, the face opens up more and more and that's where contact causes too many floating slices.

A decent topspin backhand - certainly a one-hander - tends to work well when contact happens well out ahead of us. That's where we can generally drive that shot, but a driving slice is sort of counterintuitive because it's easier to get that drive when we make contact further back to our side. If you purposely catch your slice a little earlier or later when using your ball machine, you ought to be able to recognize a difference in the potential to drive the ball.

Some of your slices look as though your weight is staying a little too balanced or "centered". To drive the shot, it's important to get most of your weight onto your front foot and initiate the forward drive by leaning into it with your forward (right) shoulder. This stroke is more linear than rotational, so with the racquet set back behind your right shoulder, that forward lean with your shoulder literally drags the racquet firmly forward to contact. Leaning into the slice should leave you with just about 100% of your weight on your right foot at the finish. No waterskiing!!

You look like you sort of accidentally do this shoulder-first lean into your slice at 0:18 on the second video (side view). The feed from the machine is a little short and you make a good forward lean into the ball to get up to it. Compare this shot to the others and you can see how you're more prone to staying still instead of leaning into it.

Try combining contact over by your side with that deliberate forward lean with your shoulder and you should be able to coax some better drive and bite on that slice. For the sake of positive reinforcement, you look like you're working in the right direction. Keep it up.

 

[Nellie]

As an initial matter, I would suggest hitting/practicing a more offensive slice in a similar situation when you are hitting a top spin BH (ball is high - between the waist and shoulders). For the balls in your video that are at waist height or below, you should start the slice BH swing much lower, just above the height of contact. Also, It helps me to finish with the racquet tip pointed at my intended target. I like to experiment with different finish heights in practice to see how the ball is effected. I would also suggest stepping forward into the shot and toward the intended target to get more weight into the ball. It you like, you can also experiment with a eastern forehand grip.

 

[navigator]

Looks pretty good to me. More importantly, good footwork.

Listen to him:

Keep hopping. Lively footwork is the cornerstone of all > 4.0 tennis.

Do not under any circumstances listen to him:

Stop the goddamn hopping! You are wasting energy!

 

[FiReFTW]

I agree with @fuzz nation , to me your slice looks very good with a very solid foundation and looks quite consistent.
But alot of them are floating and have a high net clearance due to ur weight being too far back, if only you step a bit more forward and lean forward it will close ur racquet more and make a lower trajectory and also put more weight into the shot and make it more penetrating.

 

[snvplayer]

I’m trying to improve my slice BH. In the past I just basically floated it back, to buy time or to attempt to neutralize my opponent by taking away pace. Now trying to develop an offensive slice: lower to the net, with more pace, and (ideally) skidding low through the other side of the court.

Trying to model a knifing slice somewhat after Henman/Graf, i.e. not as much sidespin as Fed/Nadal, though my natural stroke does have a little more sidespin than Graf.

Technical points I’m consciously focusing on, while trying to deal with 43-year-old footwork:
- racket head above shoulder on take-back
- hitting ball out in front of me
- weight transfer into front foot
- non-hitting arm extending behind as counterbalance, to keep from over-rotating
- good follow-through with hitting arm

Setup: ProStaff 97s, 350SW

Any thoughts/critiques would be appreciated, thanks!

Slice BH rearview

Slice BH sideview

Your backswing is segmented into two parts - your bring it back first, then up above your shoulder.
Actually keeping the racket low in the backswing is a great way to learn how NOT to chop at the ball.

Keep your chin tucked in and low. You hold your follow through in the end, but keep your chin tucked in and low a little longer. This prevents the hitting arm from pulling up too soon and will keep the slice low.

Let your racket flow free in your swing. It looks like you really want to come to a freeze in the end. Let the hitting arm flow a little more like here. Also watch Murray's chin at 0:12.

 

[Wise one]

Looks pretty good to me. More importantly, good footwork.

Listen to him:


Do not under any circumstances listen to him:

Do not under any circumstances listen to those who advise not to listen to me. People come from miles away to watch me hit backhands, and express awe and admiration for their beauty.

 

[IowaGuy]

Stop the goddamn hopping!

I've done that ever since I started playing tennis as a kid, it's drilled into my subconscious by now and I don't even think about it

It's also hard to do a split-step with a ball machine, so hopping to stay light on my feet is probably as close as I'm going to get to split-stepping...

 

[GBplayer]

Your left hand needs to come back at the same velocity and equally long extension as the right. Active but a bit half hearted . Also keep your eyes at the point of contact fractionally longer.

 

[SinjinCooper]

I've done that ever since I started playing tennis as a kid, it's drilled into my subconscious by now and I don't even think about it

It's also hard to do a split-step with a ball machine, so hopping to stay light on my feet is probably as close as I'm going to get to split-stepping...

Seriously: keep hopping.

The only people worried about exerting too much energy while they're out exercising or playing sports are the chronically lazy. Exertion in practice translates to ease during matchplay. It's kind of a fundamental element of preparation. Watch any good player in practice, and there's so much foot liveliness it's like watching a Vaudeville act.

 

[mcs1970]

People come from miles away to watch me hit backhands

What?

 

[Nostradamus]

copy this. and don't copy Federer slice ,, it is not for amateurs.

 

[mcs1970]

Nice slice OP. Not sure why you are abruptly stopping your forward motion though. It looks like you are intentionally stopping the forward motion of your arm at a certain point. Keep driving through the ball, and let the arm lose momentum on its own.

Edit: Just saw that @snvplayer said the same thing in his post. Sorry..missed that earlier.

 

[Nostradamus]

I’m trying to improve my slice BH. In the past I just basically floated it back, to buy time or to attempt to neutralize my opponent by taking away pace. Now trying to develop an offensive slice: lower to the net, with more pace, and (ideally) skidding low through the other side of the court.

Trying to model a knifing slice somewhat after Henman/Graf, i.e. not as much sidespin as Fed/Nadal, though my natural stroke does have a little more sidespin than Graf.

Technical points I’m consciously focusing on, while trying to deal with 43-year-old footwork:
- racket head above shoulder on take-back
- hitting ball out in front of me
- weight transfer into front foot
- non-hitting arm extending behind as counterbalance, to keep from over-rotating
- good follow-through with hitting arm

Setup: ProStaff 97s, 350SW

Any thoughts/critiques would be appreciated, thanks!

Slice BH rearview

Slice BH sideview

Watch pros like rosewall and other great slice hitters like Felipe Lopez. they all keep the shoulder very Closed all the way thru to the end of the swing. you are opening up your shoulder too soon thereby losing power and control

 

[SinjinCooper]

copy this. and don't copy Federer slice ,, it is not for amateurs.

It's a continuum. More like this against flatter incoming stuff, more like Fed against more topspinny stuff. In a perfect world, it would be one size fits all, but the reality is that when you're adopting a stroke that has to work with various amounts of incoming spin, you need variety in your swing path. Rosewall hitting a Federer slice against 50's and 60's incoming flat balls would do nothing but float the ball. Federer hitting Rosewall stuff against Nadal would park the ball in the 23rd row.

Whatcha gonna do. The two strokes aren't really all that much different. Higher takeback and steeper swingpath for most modern higher-level strokes, but the nuts and bolts of what the legs, arm, and hand are doing remained pretty consistent all these years.

But yeah, in general, Rosewall offers a sane model for a beginner facing hand feeds or low level, less spinny competition. Good way to avoid having a float-it-long bonanza as you're learning the shot. And note again the firmness and consistent angle of the wrist from takeback, all the way through the moment he drives through contact.

 

[Nostradamus]

 

[Nostradamus]

It's a continuum. More like this against flatter incoming stuff, more like Fed against more topspinny stuff. In a perfect world, it would be one size fits all, but the reality is that when you're adopting a stroke that has to work with various amounts of incoming spin, you need variety in your swing path. Rosewall hitting a Federer slice against 50's and 60's incoming flat balls would do nothing but float the ball. Federer hitting Rosewall stuff against Nadal would park the ball in the 23rd row.

Whatcha gonna do. The two strokes aren't really all that much different. Higher takeback and steeper swingpath for most modern higher-level strokes, but the nuts and bolts of what the legs, arm, and hand are doing remained pretty consistent all these years.

But yeah, in general, Rosewall offers a sane model for a beginner facing hand feeds or low level, less spinny competition. Good way to avoid having a float-it-long bonanza as you're learning the shot. And note again the firmness and consistent angle of the wrist from takeback, all the way through the moment he drives through contact.

Wrong. you are thinking you play against guys like Federer plays. You DO NOT. you play guys that hit 1/2 as hard as what Rosewall used to play against. So take Rosewall example, and don't play like Federer. You will never see your opponent hitting topspin shots at 3500-4500 RPMS. You might see 1000-1500 RPM at most.

 

[FiReFTW]

Wrong. you are thinking you play against guys like Federer plays. You DO NOT. you play guys that hit 1/2 as hard as what Rosewall used to play against. So take Rosewall example, and don't play like Federer. You will never see your opponent hitting topspin shots at 3500-4500 RPMS. You might see 1000-1500 RPM at most.

Thats honestly plain ridicilous thinking.
It doesn't matter what topspin ur up against, hitting more backspin is always waranted as it gives a harder shot for ur opponent, now if you are incapable of hitting it because of lack of talent and/or lack of playing time since its limited too much to reach a high degree of competency, then thats another matter, but to say its useless and you should hit with much less backspin in order to make it "consistent and good" is ridicilous and has no merits.

 

[Wise one]

Thats honestly plain ridicilous thinking.
It doesn't matter what topspin ur up against, hitting more backspin is always waranted as it gives a harder shot for ur opponent, now if you are incapable of hitting it because of lack of talent and/or lack of playing time since its limited too much to reach a high degree of competency, then thats another matter, but to say its useless and you should hit with much less backspin in order to make it "consistent and good" is ridicilous and has no merits.

Wrong! Who told you to come here? You know nothing!

 

[Nostradamus]

Thats honestly plain ridicilous thinking.
It doesn't matter what topspin ur up against, hitting more backspin is always waranted as it gives a harder shot for ur opponent, now if you are incapable of hitting it because of lack of talent and/or lack of playing time since its limited too much to reach a high degree of competency, then thats another matter, but to say its useless and you should hit with much less backspin in order to make it "consistent and good" is ridicilous and has no merits.

you Can't hit slice like Federer does,,,,,,i absolutely Guarantee it. you can try but you will only hit effectively about 10 % of the time.... is that kind of shot you want ??

 

[Nostradamus]

Thats honestly plain ridicilous thinking.
It doesn't matter what topspin ur up against, hitting more backspin is always waranted as it gives a harder shot for ur opponent, now if you are incapable of hitting it because of lack of talent and/or lack of playing time since its limited too much to reach a high degree of competency, then thats another matter, but to say its useless and you should hit with much less backspin in order to make it "consistent and good" is ridicilous and has no merits.

On the flipside however,,,, Take the Forehand of the GOAT, Roger Federer and Rafa Nadal. Now you have 2 very different shots that you can learn and emulate to great effectiveness. Federer has very traditional Forehand with almost eastern grip, very text book, and Great shot that amateur can copy and be very consistent with. Also take Rafa Nadal's forehand,,,,Massive topspin forehand hit with Semi western or western grip. You can also copy this shot if you like hitting big topspin shots-- you won't get 3800 RPM on your forehand but you will get very nice topspin depending on your talent level. It is very effective topspin motion that can be taught to the amateurs and Juniors..

only flaw in this Nadal forehand is that too much weight is on his backfoot.

On this other hand,,, there is NO flaw on this Federer forehand.

 

[FiReFTW]

you Can't hit slice like Federer does,,,,,,i absolutely Guarantee it. you can try but you will only hit effectively about 10 % of the time.... is that kind of shot you want ??

Why not then?
Did not really dig deep in his slice, but from what I saw its not really much different than most high atp players?
And I never said you could hit a slice as effective as Federer, obviously thats ridicilous to even think about, but I said the more backspin you can hit the better and more effective ur slice.
So one should not use easy and simple strokes just so they are super consistent but try to build up their strokes to be better and better as time goes on.