Please help demystifying Supination and Pronation

[mass.tennis]

There seems to be some confusing information out there regarding pronating and supinating. I want this put to rest right now. When serving: If you hold the racquet in a continental grip (like a hammer) and lead with the edge then turn your forearm and wrist until the palm is down you in affect Pronate.
I'm not great with written descriptions but what is missing here? How does the elbow and shoulder play a role in pronating. I imagine that it does. How much does the wrist snap? Is it a wrist snap at all? I believe Vic Braden said that there really isn't a wrist snap at all.
Then there is supination. It seems that this term is being thrown around to me. When referring to a service motion, is supination when you pronate to far? So, in affect you go palm down and then continue until your palm is facing out to the right (if you're a righty). Or, is supinating when you turn the racquet and palm in towards you. Palm faces you. And if so, when if it all does supinate play a role in a service motion. I have my own thoughts about it but......
I'm ready for your words of wisdom.

 

[supineAnimation]

Simple. Pronation is rotation of the forearm towards the thumb and supination is rotation towards the pinky. Pronation or supination is the rotation of the radius over the ulna, so not really about the wrist per se, and while the wrist extends and flexes to a degree on groundstrokes, the wrist doesn't rotate; the forearm does. Most players rotate the wrist to some degree on the serve (abduction), but the action, again, is mostly the pronation of the forearm.

 

[mass.tennis]

Interesting. This player was rotating the forearm towards the thumb until the thumb pointed out to the right. He called that supinating. Based on what you said, do players supinate when they hit lice serves or kick serves?

 

[charliefedererer]

There seems to be some confusing information out there regarding pronating and supinating. I want this put to rest right now. When serving: If you hold the racquet in a continental grip (like a hammer) and lead with the edge then turn your forearm and wrist until the palm is down you in affect Pronate.

You've got this right.

I'm not great with written descriptions but what is missing here? How does the elbow and shoulder play a role in pronating? I imagine that it does.

The muscles at the shoulder, upper arm and forearm all contribute to the pronation of the serve and forehand.

How much does the wrist snap? Is it a wrist snap at all? I believe Vic Braden said that there really isn't a wrist snap at all.

It is thought the forward movement from the cocked wrist at the start of the serve and groundstrokes is really more of a passive movement brought about by the momentum of the racquet as it is flung forward, rather than the muscles around the wrist are actively directing this forward motion from a cocked to a neutral wrist position.

When referring to a service motion, is supination when you pronate too far? So, in affect you go palm down and then continue until your palm is facing out to the right (if you're a righty).

No.

Or, is supinating when you turn the racquet and palm in towards you. Palm faces you.

It's when you turn your arm so the palm faces up, as in hitting a 1HBH with topspin.

And if so, when if it all does supinate play a role in a service motion. I have my own thoughts about it but......

Supination does not play a role in most players service motion. But advanced players will supinate the racquet as they finish their racquet drop so that they will have even more room to pronate in the swing. http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/vid...he-arm-moves-from-the-racket-drop-to-contact/

I'm ready for your words of wisdom.

Sorry to disappoint you with a lack of wisdom.

 

[charliefedererer]

Interesting. This player was rotating the forearm towards the thumb until the thumb pointed out to the right. He called that supinating. Based on what you said, do players supinate when they hit lice serves or kick serves?

He was pronating.

There should be pronation on flat, kick and slice serves. It is path of the racquet head against the ball and the location of the toss that determines the spin.

 

[supineAnimation]

Interesting. This player was rotating the forearm towards the thumb until the thumb pointed out to the right. He called that supinating. Based on what you said, do players supinate when they hit lice serves or kick serves?

Often you will supinate preceding the pronation on the serve, but the only stroke where supination is an operative action is the one-handed backhand. The right forearm will supinate on a two-handed backhand as well, but that's typically a product of the left forearm pronating.

 

[nhat8121]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhZ9ZX-Ht24

 

[gzhpcu]

Or simply: stretch your arm straight out in front of you. Palm of hand facing down.

Rotate your forearm counterclockwise (your thumb points down): pronation

Rotate your forearm clockwise (your thumb points up): supination

 

[larry10s]

the FOREARM pronates and supinates. the upper arm internally rotates often with pronation

 

[mass.tennis]

Good stuff players.

 

[mass.tennis]

Next. Explain supination on the backhand. Exactly when do you supinate in the two handed or one handed backhand motions.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Forget about "wrist snap". The wrist should not actively flex. There should only be mild flexion, if any at all. The wrist action should be passive for the most part and should primarily just be a result of the pronation.

Often you will supinate preceding the pronation on the serve, but the only stroke where supination is an operative action is the one-handed backhand. The right forearm will supinate on a two-handed backhand as well, but that's typically a product of the left forearm pronating.

This is correct. You will often supinate the forearm during the preparatory phase of a stroke so that you can pronate later. When serving, players will often supinate during their initial loop or during the racket head drop (to the scratch position). The pronation then comes afer the racket head drop as the arm & racket extends up to the ball.

 

[supineAnimation]

Next. Explain supination on the backhand. Exactly when do you supinate in the two handed or one handed backhand motions.

Again, supination is the radius rotating over the ulna in the other direction; towards the pinky. So on the one-handed backhand, the forearm pronates as the racquet drops at the start of the forward swing and as the arm sweeps forward and across the body and the elbow extends, the forearm rotates towards the pinky to brush up the ball to impart to topspin similar to how the forearm pronates to produce topspin on the forehand. Some hit a two-handed backhand almost exclusively with their dominant hand as the off-hand simply helps to stabilize the racquet. Borg is probably the most famous example of this. Others hit almost exclusively with their off-hand, in which case the dominant hand would supinate mainly because it is on the handle as the off-forearm pronates. I, and many others, use both hands so that the dominant hand takes the racquet back and begins the swing forward, and the off-hand is engaged slightly before contact and through the follow-through. In this case, the supination of the dominant forehand is more operative.

 

[kiteboard]

Forget about "wrist snap". The wrist should not actively flex. There should only be mild flexion, if any at all. The wrist action should be passive for the most part and should primarily just be a result of the pronation.




This is correct. You will often supinate the forearm during the preparatory phase of a stroke so that you can pronate later. When serving, players will often supinate during their initial loop or during the racket head drop (to the scratch position). The pronation then comes afer the racket head drop as the arm & racket extends up to the ball.

Listen to this guy. LIke loading a gun.

 

[kiteboard]

Again, supination is the radius rotating over the ulna in the other direction; towards the pinky. So on the one-handed backhand, the forearm pronates as the racquet drops at the start of the forward swing and as the arm sweeps forward and across the body and the elbow extends, the forearm rotates towards the pinky to brush up the ball to impart to topspin similar to how the forearm pronates to produce topspin on the forehand. Some hit a two-handed backhand almost exclusively with their dominant hand as the off-hand simply helps to stabilize the racquet. Borg is probably the most famous example of this. Others hit almost exclusively with their off-hand, in which case the dominant hand would supinate mainly because it is on the handle as the off-forearm pronates. I, and many others, use both hands so that the dominant hand takes the racquet back and begins the swing forward, and the off-hand is engaged slightly before contact and through the follow-through. In this case, the supination of the dominant forehand is more operative.

And this guy. I miss the borg. You will be assimilated into the supination/pronation.

 

[mass.tennis]

What about supination on different backhand grips. Example: Eastern one handed backhand vs. using a continental grip for a one hander or a semi-western Justine Henin backhand. What are the differences? How about the followthrough? I modeled my backhand after the rising socket motion of Ivan Lendl and I don't feel like I supinate much at all. It seems to me that if you are building a player's backhand, that you need to be clear about how much the forearm rotates through if at all.
Right?