please tell me , how the hell robin soderling beat nadal in 2009 RG R16 ?

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
What your suggest did not help Sod:
Not in that match.

But Roger Federer will be forever grateful to Robin because without him Roger would not have a single Roland Garros Title. And without one of those, he could not possibly be considered a GOAT candidate.

Soderling
Fantastic post which I agree with 100%. And that is the beauty of Rafa. He never stops learning. He is always improving his game.
 

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
Not in that match.

But Roger Federer will be forever grateful to Robin because without him Roger would not have a single Roland Garros Title. And without one of those, he could not possibly be considered a GOAT candidate.



Fantastic post which I agree with 100%. And that is the beauty of Rafa. He never stops learning. He is always improving his game.
What your suggest did not help Sod in 2010, too.
 

Sunny014

Hall of Fame
Unfortunately for Federer, the moment that his Major Titles Count is exceeded either by Nadal or Djokovic or both of them, many people will go back and look at his Record. And many of them will conclude that the value of Rafa and Novak's Major Titles are probably greater because they were mostly obtained against Roger or each other. Roger obtained a significant proportion of his Major Titles against strong opponents for the most part but none were in the same league as Rafa or Novak.
Roger will remain the reflection of perfection, nothing will change even if 20 is crossed. He has too many records with him to have any significant dent on his legacy.

Now if young generation in their teens consider Djokovic greater than Federer then cannnot help it, it is just evolution and future eras always will their views.,

Claydal will always look 1 dimensional, every generation will know that Nadal is claydal.

But Novak has a chance of growing beyond Federer among the kids, thats true.
 

Sunny014

Hall of Fame
Claydal will always remain an inferior 1 dimensional 1 trick pony even if he is on 25 slams, everyone can see how inflated his stats are with clay.

Novak has a genuine chance at eclipsing Federer.
 

BGod

Legend
He was just that good, **** click for him like Borg in his first French Final.

But I also don't think it's a coincidence Nadal skipped Wimbledon following this. Not that he would have gotten Rosoled but he probably knew he'd have zero chance at winning and his USO run took place 2 months later.

It was still an epic win and Nadal's play in the first 3 rounds shows he would have made Semis without Soderling if not the final but it comes out like Jordan losing to the Magic in 95. It's kinda better than him losing SF or F.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Unfortunately for Federer, the moment that his Major Titles Count is exceeded either by Nadal or Djokovic or both of them, many people will go back and look at his Record. And many of them will conclude that the value of Rafa and Novak's Major Titles are probably greater because they were mostly obtained against Roger or each other. Roger obtained a significant proportion of his Major Titles against strong opponents for the most part but none were in the same league as Rafa or Novak.
Well, at least you're not calling them weak, which is nice for a change compared to other people (y)

But while not in the same league as Nole or Rafa, let's not pretend like Nole and Rafa always played up to their standard and were always tougher than some of Fed's opponents.

For example, Djokovic in the 2010/2013 USO finals wasn't tougher than Roddick in the 2004/2009 Wimb finals. Exactly the opposite.

Nole/Rafa in the 2019 AO and 2020 RG finals also weren't tougher than even old man Agassi in the 2004 and 2005 USO's for example.

Just looking at the names and ignoring level of play is a very shallow way of analyzing competition, which is why this debate can never be had with rational people.

And besides, Rafa and Novak have had their fair share of weaker competition years, so it would be pretty ridiculous to ignore those years. The last 8 years haven't been better than Roger's glory years at all. And the last 5 have even been weaker than that.
 
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ADuck

Hall of Fame
I'll explain, it's quite simple.

In 2008, Federer lost a tennis match, fair and square, to Nadal in a Wimbledon final. This really hurt a certain group of people who have formed an obsessive emotional attachment to Federer. Now this same group of people, to cope, need (psychologically) to believe that every significant loss of Nadal's career (such as 2009 FO) had nothing to do with anything other than being a worse tennis player on the day, akin to how Federer was simply the worse player on the day when he was beaten by Nadal in that Wimbledon final. They leave no room for doubt.

Why? Because this group of people have formed an ego/identity through Federer based on him being at least equal to or better than Nadal. The results over the years however have stressed the integrity on which this identity was built. So it is out of a tendency to alleviate this stress (as it's easier than truly testing your beliefs) that this group of people continue to think like this. That is why they continue to hide behind their favorite strawman "healthy Nadal never loses." The only people they are fooling are themselves.
 

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
Roger will remain the reflection of perfection, nothing will change even if 20 is crossed. He has too many records with him to have any significant dent on his legacy.

Now if young generation in their teens consider Djokovic greater than Federer then cannnot help it, it is just evolution and future eras always will their views.,

Claydal will always look 1 dimensional, every generation will know that Nadal is claydal.

But Novak has a chance of growing beyond Federer among the kids, thats true.
Every generation will know that Rafa is the King of Clay:

 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
He has huge shots, he went for it (trying to end the point as soon as reasonably possible), didn't let up and didn't worry when he missed. He played well and got in Nadal's head a little.
 
If a player manages to dismantle Rafa at RG (lol good luck even now), there will always be an asterisks. He is 35 years old and nowhere near his prime - it would be due to the natural decline of age. Rafa doesn't move like he used to and the neverending stamina isn't there.

But what Soderling did in 2009 was very special. This came during Bull's peak and the year after what was arguably Rafa's most dominant RG run ever. Nadal made everyone look like children in 2008 - this is where Almagro's famous "Rafael Nadal is going to win RG 40 years in a row" quote comes from. Super fast movement and a brutal, demoralizing forehand that resulted in one of the most one sided slam finals in recent memory. Then 2009 comes around and The Big Swede just completely blows bull off the court with powerful tennis.

Even as a big Nadal fan it's very easy to admit how amazing of a match that was from Soderling. Definitely made 2010 that much more special!
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
If a player manages to dismantle Rafa at RG (lol good luck even now), there will always be an asterisks. He is 35 years old and nowhere near his prime - it would be due to the natural decline of age. Rafa doesn't move like he used to and the neverending stamina isn't there.

But what Soderling did in 2009 was very special. This came during Bull's peak and the year after what was arguably Rafa's most dominant RG run ever. Nadal made everyone look like children in 2008 - this is where Almagro's famous "Rafael Nadal is going to win RG 40 years in a row" quote comes from. Super fast movement and a brutal, demoralizing forehand that resulted in one of the most one sided slam finals in recent memory. Then 2009 comes around and The Big Swede just completely blows bull off the court with powerful tennis.

Even as a big Nadal fan it's very easy to admit how amazing of a match that was from Soderling. Definitely made 2010 that much more special!
Facts
 

Sunny014

Hall of Fame
Every generation will know that Rafa is the King of Clay:

haha this is also true.

It is ATP's fault, they never took the right steps to take him when he was approaching 9-10 slams.

If I was ATP chairman then I would have announced in 2017 that Clay will played on Blue Clay or Green clay from the next year.

Also would have introduced new rules that the semi final and final will be under the roof indoors.
 

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
haha this is also true.

It is ATP's fault, they never took the right steps to take him when he was approaching 9-10 slams.

If I was ATP chairman then I would have announced in 2017 that Clay will played on Blue Clay or Green clay from the next year.

Also would have introduced new rules that the semi final and final will be under the roof indoors.
I'm sorry to tell you that you cling to empty hopes.

- GS tournaments are not ATP events.

- Blue clay was banned by the ATP from all its events:
https://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/23/sport/tennis/blue-clay-banned-atp/index.html

- The 2020 FO final Rafa won was played under the roof. He won the 2013 Sao Paulo Open held on indoor clay courts.
 

CHillTennis

Semi-Pro
If a player manages to dismantle Rafa at RG (lol good luck even now), there will always be an asterisks. He is 35 years old and nowhere near his prime - it would be due to the natural decline of age. Rafa doesn't move like he used to and the neverending stamina isn't there.

But what Soderling did in 2009 was very special. This came during Bull's peak and the year after what was arguably Rafa's most dominant RG run ever. Nadal made everyone look like children in 2008 - this is where Almagro's famous "Rafael Nadal is going to win RG 40 years in a row" quote comes from. Super fast movement and a brutal, demoralizing forehand that resulted in one of the most one sided slam finals in recent memory. Then 2009 comes around and The Big Swede just completely blows bull off the court with powerful tennis.

Even as a big Nadal fan it's very easy to admit how amazing of a match that was from Soderling. Definitely made 2010 that much more special!
It was also shocking because of that beat-down that he took to Nadal in the 3rd round of Rome.

Coming off of that match you would have never given Soderling a chance against Nadal.

Even though Nadal's form in the earlier rounds was clearly not as good as it had been in 2008, he was still managing to improve round by round.

Nobody could have predicted what happened that day.

It's one of the biggest upsets in the history of the game.

However, you do have to give Soderling credit for managing to go all the way to the finals in 2009 and then repeating it in 2010.

 

Beckerserve

Legend
I'm sorry to tell you that you cling to empty hopes.

- GS tournaments are not ATP events.

- Blue clay was banned by the ATP from all its events:
https://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/23/sport/tennis/blue-clay-banned-atp/index.html

- The 2020 FO final Rafa won was played under the roof. He won the 2013 Sao Paulo Open held on indoor clay courts.
Some people just one of those very jealous individuals of rafa which there are many given Rafa probably is GOAT now and is super rich and drop dead gorgeous to boot. Obviously this induces envy in some and a lack of clarity in said envious individual posts.
You are of course spot on in your riposte
 

aldeayeah

Legend
Some people just one of those very jealous individuals of rafa which there are many given Rafa probably is GOAT now and is super rich and drop dead gorgeous to boot. Obviously this induces envy in some and a lack of clarity in said envious individual posts.
You are of course spot on in your riposte
I know it's not, but can't parse this as anything other than sarcasm.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
Interesting to canvass your wise counsel on something. Who are the most bitter to rafa? Fed devotees or Djoker Devotees?
I believe that DEEP DOWN, fans of the Big 3 who are true fans of the sport of tennis admire all 3 of them. I appreciate all three of them - wish Andy could have joined them in a Big 4. The sport has been enhanced by their participation in the same way it was when Borg arrived on the scene. They pretty much saved a sport that was descending towards becoming a Second Tier Sport. We true fans of tennis should be forever grateful for that.

The single player "devotees" would be better off following Football. The sport of Tennis doesn't need them and would be a whole lot better without them.
 

Europa1

New User


I TRULY belive if nadal got away with this match , roger federer never got RG in his life
anyway what i wonder is how the hell this swedish guy beat rafa in 2009 french open ??

agianst rafa in RG is
Apart from the almost impossible physical challenge to be the agressor all the time, also think of it mentally.

There is nothing more frustrating than to play against Nadal, whose heavy topspin makes you look bad. If you attack with the mentality of winning the point right away, you are toast. Nadal loves this situations. You have to work out every point, prepare your head for multiple shots to follow, no matter how good your position on court is. Add to this the nasty psychological moves and deliberate time delays from Nadal we all know too well, and I actually think not losing your head against the Spaniard is the biggest challenge of it all.









I'll never forget how Söderling managed to be that calm. Him hiding his head under his towel, never losing focus, just tearing Nadal apart shot after shot. Oh how beautiful that day was, a shining beacon in the darkness that is Nadal on clay. It was a match for eternity, everybody will remember this one till the end of time.
Nadal read my prediction before clay season that Fed would win the French based on his form and tanked. But Soderling would have beat him anyway.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
I believe that DEEP DOWN, fans of the Big 3 who are true fans of the sport of tennis admire all 3 of them. I appreciate all three of them - wish Andy could have joined them in a Big 4. The sport has been enhanced by their participation in the same way it was when Borg arrived on the scene. They pretty much saved a sport that was descending towards becoming a Second Tier Sport. We true fans of tennis should be forever grateful for that.

The single player "devotees" would be better off following Football. The sport of Tennis doesn't need them and would be a whole lot better without them.
Yes agree with much of that. Fortunately most posters are decent and appreciative of all three.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
It's not really complicated, he just zoned out of his mind for that one match, it happens in tennis and other sports.

Definitely one of the biggest tennis upsets I've ever seen, no one was giving Soderling any chance before the match. He got destroyed in Rome and Nadal was in impervious form against Hewitt the round before.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
It's not really complicated, he just zoned out of his mind for that one match, it happens in tennis and other sports.

Definitely one of the biggest tennis upsets I've ever seen, no one was giving Soderling any chance before the match. He got destroyed in Rome and Nadal was in impervious form against Hewitt the round before.
Rafa was injured though if i recall as he had to skip wimbledon. So it does have an asterisk.
 

NonP

Hall of Fame
It's not really complicated, he just zoned out of his mind for that one match, it happens in tennis and other sports.

Definitely one of the biggest tennis upsets I've ever seen, no one was giving Soderling any chance before the match. He got destroyed in Rome and Nadal was in impervious form against Hewitt the round before.
Mostly agreed (I remain unconvinced that a zoning Norman, Delpo or Cilic couldn't have beaten Rafa that day), but one slight correction: I actually saw that Rome match live and it was a lot closer than the score suggests. In fact out of all of Rafa's opponents at that event only Dasco generated more BPs (6) than Sod (5), which ain't what you'd expect from a near double-bagel beatdown.

It's fair to acknowledge that Rafa wasn't quite in tip-top shape and that Sod played the match of his life. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
 

SonnyT

Hall of Fame
Seriously, when a player is a heavy favorite, his winning chances coming in are, say, 80%. There are the other 20%, you know!

That's why Nishikori beat Djokovic at '14 USO; Anderson beat Federer at '18 W!
 

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
If a player manages to dismantle Rafa at RG (lol good luck even now), there will always be an asterisks. He is 35 years old and nowhere near his prime - it would be due to the natural decline of age. Rafa doesn't move like he used to and the neverending stamina isn't there.

But what Soderling did in 2009 was very special. This came during Bull's peak and the year after what was arguably Rafa's most dominant RG run ever. Nadal made everyone look like children in 2008 - this is where Almagro's famous "Rafael Nadal is going to win RG 40 years in a row" quote comes from. Super fast movement and a brutal, demoralizing forehand that resulted in one of the most one sided slam finals in recent memory. Then 2009 comes around and The Big Swede just completely blows bull off the court with powerful tennis.

Even as a big Nadal fan it's very easy to admit how amazing of a match that was from Soderling. Definitely made 2010 that much more special!
Sod did nothing special in 2009. He beat Rafa who had patellar tendinitis in both knees.

The Guardian, June 28, 2009 : ¤¤ Rafael Nadal's knee problem 'may force him to end his career early'
Sports scientist says Spaniard 'has knees of 33-year-old'

The injury that forced 2008 champion Rafael Nadal to pull out of this [2009] year's Wimbledon may put an end to the 23-year-old's career, according to sport scientists. The Spaniard has suffered with tendinitis of both knees since the age of 21 and leading tennis coach Sven Groneveld said yesterday that he has never known a player to be so badly afflicted with the injury so young....
Nadal said pulling out of the Championships two days before he was due to open play on Centre Court was the "worst decision" of his career and it is likely the patella tendinitis contributed to his relinquishing of the French Open crown for the first time in five years.
Sean Corvin of Premier Training, the health and fitness educator, speculated that the world No1's knees are those of a 33-year-old. "A large number of athletes may have retired early because of this condition and some may be performing at a lower level because they can't tolerate the heavy training," he said ¤¤
 
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Forehanderer

Professional

#SoderlingementDay #NeverForget #AbsoluteJoy #BringTheWings
This post was remembered by @octobrina10 :-D and questioned @Third Serve on liking it. Looks like somebody doesn't have a sense of humor. How salty can one get? I'll also click like 8-B I endorse your term denadalization (never heard of it before) from now on after the saltmines dug up by rafaholics yesterday. Keep on pushing their buttons :-D
 

AniaPova

New User
Rafa's parents were going through some hard times, (separation), and his knees were destroyed after AO and clay season.
He came back next year and beat Soda pretty convincing where he got his revenge.
 

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
This post was remembered by @octobrina10 :-D and questioned @Third Serve on liking it. Looks like somebody doesn't have a sense of humor. How salty can one get? I'll also click like 8-B I endorse your term denadalization (never heard of it before) from now on after the saltmines dug up by rafaholics yesterday. Keep on pushing their buttons :-D
Hmm. I remembered this post to show readers once again that Fed devotees have a selective "sense of humour": it disappears when someone gives them a taste of their own medicine. o_O Your reply is yet another example of a selective "sense of humor." :-D
The term 'denadalization' was invented by your comrades.
 

Forehanderer

Professional
Hmm. I remembered this post to show readers once again that Fed devotees have a selective "sense of humour": it disappears when someone gives them a taste of their own medicine. o_O Your reply is yet another example of a selective "sense of humor." :-D
The term 'denadalization' was invented by your comrades.
The point is vive made a funny but not offensive joke you couldn't handle. Your attempt at humor is basically stealing someone's catchphrase. You can type emojis all you want but still can't find any sense of humor in you or any of your salty friends :giggle:
 

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
The point is vive made a funny but not offensive joke you couldn't handle. Your attempt at humor is basically stealing someone's catchphrase. You can type emojis all you want but still can't find any sense of humor in you or any of your salty friends :giggle:
I wonder why you are soooo salty? :unsure:
 

SonnyT

Hall of Fame
His moment in the sun, similar to Cilic in '14, except he ran into Federer.

Who should Cilic thank for his lone slam, Nishikori! Cilic was playing exceptionally well, but Djokovic (17-2 vs Cilic) would most likely take him! Lightning wasn't going to strike twice for him in one tournament, just as it didn't for Soderling in '09!

del Potro were different from these two; he obviously had talent, power and desire aplenty; but series of injuries fell him!
 
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