Point of diminishing returns with coaching

zill

Hall of Fame
I find that getting coaching two times a week for 1 or 1.5 hours each time is very good and needed. I play 4 days a week so improving healthily at the moment. I am able to afford coaching on one more day a week. However, is the return I'm getting from that extra hour not that much compared to getting coaching two times a week? I'm not exactly rich so want to use my $ as best and efficiently as possible.

Note I'm a 4.5 looking to improve to 6.0 and beyond eventually. I will be increasing my tennis playing days to 6 days a week in the course of a year. Just trying to get stronger first as well as getting better technique.
 

zill

Hall of Fame
I wish you hadn't mentioned that. You know this forum can get pretty wild and brutal when the opportunity arises!
Please ignore then. Am putting it there for context. Most people don’t get any coaching. Or if they do only 1 hour. I’m getting coaching because I want to raise my level substantially.
 

Curious

Legend
Please ignore then. Am putting it there for context. Most people don’t get any coaching. Or if they do only 1 hour. I’m getting coaching because I want to raise my level substantially.
Just joking. I admire people trying hard to improve.
 

styksnstryngs

Professional
Honestly if you're trying to get to 6.0 you have to realize that you need to invest a lot and squeeze as much coaching you can out of your wallet.
 

zill

Hall of Fame
Honestly if you're trying to get to 6.0 you have to realize that you need to invest a lot and squeeze as much coaching you can out of your wallet.
But I'm progressing steadily - not in a rush. Am looking to get from 4.5 to 6.0 in 3 to 4 years. Is that fair?
 

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
But I'm progressing steadily - not in a rush. Am looking to get from 4.5 to 6.0 in 3 to 4 years. Is that fair?
If you are talking NTRP 4.5 to 6.0

Never going to happen unless you don't have a job and are in your early 20s or less. You would need to be playing 6+ days a week 2+ hours a day plus gym/cardio etc...
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
If you are talking NTRP 4.5 to 6.0

Never going to happen unless you don't have a job and are in your early 20s or less. You would need to be playing 6+ days a week 2+ hours a day plus gym/cardio etc...
like i've said for the dozens of folks making a run for 6.0.... i hope he proves the naysayers wrong.

personally if i were try refocus my life goals, and my a run for 6.0 (in "3-4y")... my daily 6x/w sched would look something like this:
1. AM: hit with a 6.0... coop drills, serve practice, etc... 90-120m, with coach
2. recovery (yoga, cryo, ice bath, etc...)
3. PM: mix of practice sets & drill specific trouble spots.. 90-120m, with coach... sometimes swap out with general conditioning
tournaments on weekends.
 

Hmgraphite1

Hall of Fame
like i've said for the dozens of folks making a run for 6.0.... i hope he proves the naysayers wrong.

personally if i were try refocus my life goals, and my a run for 6.0 (in "3-4y")... my daily 6x/w sched would look something like this:
1. AM: hit with a 6.0... coop drills, serve practice, etc... 90-120m, with coach
2. recovery (yoga, cryo, ice bath, etc...)
3. PM: mix of practice sets & drill specific trouble spots.. 90-120m, with coach... sometimes swap out with general conditioning
tournaments on weekends.
Can you play after ice bath? I took ice cold shower in heat of summer and proceeded to to pull several muscles playing a match after.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
If you are 20, got training when you were younger, please post your progress. I will be following.
If you are in your late 20s and older, goodluck. :)
whats that getting from 4.5 to 6.0 in 3-4 years????? If you get to 5.5 in 3-4 years, that would be REALLY amazing already.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Cool. I interpreted general conditioning as spider drills, figure 8, ladder and line drills.
all of it...
that said, i'm exhausted and sore, just imagining my hypothetical routine.
i need 1 day of rest in between, after a hard 2h hitting session
 

atp2015

Hall of Fame
I find that getting coaching two times a week for 1 or 1.5 hours each time is very good and needed. I play 4 days a week so improving healthily at the moment. I am able to afford coaching on one more day a week. However, is the return I'm getting from that extra hour not that much compared to getting coaching two times a week? I'm not exactly rich so want to use my $ as best and efficiently as possible.

Note I'm a 4.5 looking to improve to 6.0 and beyond eventually. I will be increasing my tennis playing days to 6 days a week in the course of a year. Just trying to get stronger first as well as getting better technique.
Admirable goal however lofty. IMO,anyone who already has measured his current NTRP rating won't gain 1 more in 6 years of time. If you are 4.5, it will take 3 years to become 5 and 3 more to become 5.5 assuming you are getting physically stronger and not weaker. 99.99% of the population reaches physical peak at around 28 years and starts declining from there and finally hits the fast deceleration at 40.
As someone said, if you are 20 or under, you might reach 5.5 by the time you hit your physical peak.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Honestly if you're trying to get to 6.0 you have to realize that you need to invest a lot and squeeze as much coaching you can out of your wallet.
More so it is about time on court than spending time with coaches. You can do a few hours sessions with your coach each week, but need at minimum 2 hours on court practicing 5 days a week. More like 4+ hours a day, every day, to get to a 6.0 caliber player. If you are older then that makes it even harder.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
More so it is about time on court than spending time with coaches. You can do a few hours sessions with your coach each week, but need at minimum 2 hours on court practicing 5 days a week. More like 4+ hours a day, every day, to get to a 6.0 caliber player. If you are older then that makes it even harder.
And the older you are, the likelihood of injury increases when you increase the training workload
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I find that getting coaching two times a week for 1 or 1.5 hours each time is very good and needed. I play 4 days a week so improving healthily at the moment. I am able to afford coaching on one more day a week. However, is the return I'm getting from that extra hour not that much compared to getting coaching two times a week? I'm not exactly rich so want to use my $ as best and efficiently as possible.

Note I'm a 4.5 looking to improve to 6.0 and beyond eventually. I will be increasing my tennis playing days to 6 days a week in the course of a year. Just trying to get stronger first as well as getting better technique.
One day per week of technical training and one day of drilling with a coach is good per week, obviously the more the better but you will reach diminishing returns. Perhaps instead of a third day of coaching you would be better off hiring a hitting partner above your level or towards playing tournaments.

J
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
like i've said for the dozens of folks making a run for 6.0.... i hope he proves the naysayers wrong.

personally if i were try refocus my life goals, and my a run for 6.0 (in "3-4y")... my daily 6x/w sched would look something like this:
1. AM: hit with a 6.0... coop drills, serve practice, etc... 90-120m, with coach
2. recovery (yoga, cryo, ice bath, etc...)
3. PM: mix of practice sets & drill specific trouble spots.. 90-120m, with coach... sometimes swap out with general conditioning
tournaments on weekends.
That's basically what I do.

It ummm, hasn't worked yet.

J
 

styksnstryngs

Professional
More so it is about time on court than spending time with coaches. You can do a few hours sessions with your coach each week, but need at minimum 2 hours on court practicing 5 days a week. More like 4+ hours a day, every day, to get to a 6.0 caliber player. If you are older then that makes it even harder.
I spend that much time on the court and have been doing so for a year now and I'm barely a very generous 4.5, but I don't get any coaching. I still think coaching is very important, but I also agree that court time is what keeps the feel for the ball and your timing intact and improving.
 

zill

Hall of Fame
How old are you?
32. So why am I still 4.5 because my parents didn’t invest much coaching when I was young but I did start playing at age 8. However stopped tennis for 10 years and only started 2 years ago. So I know I have a long road back. But i plan to quit at 40 so right now is the time of my life!
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
32. So why am I still 4.5 because my parents didn’t invest much coaching when I was young but I did start playing at age 8. However stopped tennis for 10 years and only started 2 years ago. So I know I have a long road back. But i plan to quit at 40 so right now is the time of my life!
Realistically aim for 5.0. 6.0 is nearly impossible at your age.
 

zill

Hall of Fame
[/QUOTE]
Realistically aim for 5.0. 6.0 is nearly impossible at your age.
But i’m planning to hit 6 times a week eventually plus gym and cardio sessions and 2 or 3 times coaching a week and that would get me to 5.0 in 3 years time????
 

styksnstryngs

Professional
32. So why am I still 4.5 because my parents didn’t invest much coaching when I was young but I did start playing at age 8. However stopped tennis for 10 years and only started 2 years ago. So I know I have a long road back. But i plan to quit at 40 so right now is the time of my life!
Why do you plan to quit at 40?
 

styksnstryngs

Professional

But i’m planning to hit 6 times a week eventually plus gym and cardio sessions and 2 or 3 times coaching a week and that would get me to 5.0 in 3 years time????[/QUOTE]
More like 5... And then to get to 5.5 would be more than 40.
 

jz000

Rookie
5.0 you have to hit with other 5.0s at Bollettieri EVERYDAY for 2-3 years.
This is coming from another 5.0 I hit with. I can rally with him, but when it comes to games I get slaughtered.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Good point. I haven't. But because I'm older and wider am preceding cautiously.
You should because it will happen inevitably. You need to push to improve. Eventually you will push too much and injure something. Your body will not tell you when it’s at the brink of injury and not push any harder.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
@zill

Based on the serve video you posted previously, you will need a much stronger serve to get to 5.0+

Get a good coach for your serve because practicing more reps with the wrong technique won’t do you any good and increases your chances for injury.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Do you currently play #1 for your 4.5 team?

What was your record last year?

How are you doing in Men's Open tournaments?

What's your UTR?

Have you found another 40 year old 6.0 who wasn't previously an ATP player whom you could ask for advice?

J
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Based on your information, your highest ceiling is 5.5 if you are a very good athlete.

Which is nothing to laugh about, 5.5 is an extremely high level of tennis, and if you do manage to get there it would take A TON OF TIME and a TON of training and hard work, and alot of years.

I see zero possibility of you being able to reach 6.0, thats just insane.

6.0 you start getting into ranked players that play official competitions, all of those players have been intensively training since they were 5-6 years old with no pauses between, and even from all those players a handful made it to 6.0+
 

zill

Hall of Fame
@zill

Based on the serve video you posted previously, you will need a much stronger serve to get to 5.0+

Get a good coach for your serve because practicing more reps with the wrong technique won’t do you any good and increases your chances for injury.
I’ve since modified my technique a little but using the same Roddick motion (works for me). My coach doesn’t like it as well but I can’t serve effectively with any other motion.
 

zill

Hall of Fame
Based on your information, your highest ceiling is 5.5 if you are a very good athlete.

Which is nothing to laugh about, 5.5 is an extremely high level of tennis, and if you do manage to get there it would take A TON OF TIME and a TON of training and hard work, and alot of years.

I see zero possibility of you being able to reach 6.0, thats just insane.

6.0 you start getting into ranked players that play official competitions, all of those players have been intensively training since they were 5-6 years old with no pauses between, and even from all those players a handful made it to 6.0+
So do 6.0’s have atp ranking?? If so about what level ranking are they?

My goal is to get an atp ranking.
 
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