Points per Position System in the Works?

G

gameboy

Hall of Fame
Got a survey request from USTA just now. Very interesting...

Here is the description:

Points Per Position (PPP) is a USTA League team match format whereby individual matches of a team match played would be awarded points based on position played. (No team point would be awarded in this format, and points accumulate throughout the competition. There is a possibility that a team match may end with both teams having the same number of points.)For example, the #1 singles position would be weighted to count some amount more than #2 singles and the higher doubles positions would be weighted to count more than the lower doubles positions. Flight winners would be determined by the total number of weighted individual match points won. If used at Championships, Finals, semi-finals, and 3-4 playoff match winners would be determined in a similar fashion, with potential ties settled with some kind of tiebreak or based on a format selected by the administration.

Are you in favor of this new system? I rather not mess with what we have right now...
 
Let's see... giving more weight to certain matches... that will certainly keep captains from searching out sandbaggers... oh brother... USTA minions have too much time on their hands.
 
If this is what the brain trust at the USTA consider to be their most pressing issue with leagues then I'm very disappointed.
 
It is how almost all rules in USTA come about. It is a knee jerk reaction to people trying to take advantage of a system.

In this case, it is a reaction to people's reactions to stacking. Now, as far as I see it, there is no such thing as stacking, but others believe otherwise.

You cannot stop stacking if someone wants to do it; even if the lower court is weighed less than the top. I think this is not a well thought out attack on a problem that really does not exist.
 
I see no harm with stacking. It is basically a random blind draw. I don't know anyone would get upset by it.
 
I'd say most of the teams I play on play pretty straightforward. There might be some internal disagreement "I'm better than so-and-so and I should be on 1st court" etc., but my captains go pretty straight on the line-ups.

However, there are certain teams that seem to consistently stack. When we play them, we try to match strength to strength as we predict what line-up they will put out.

The other thing is conversations amongst our team like "man, 2nd court was really tough.... do you think their 2nd court was stronger than their 1st court?" sorta thing.

But basically, like Gameboy said, it's a blind draw. Ya still gotta fill the singles and the doubles somehow... and if you stack your line-up, you are still gonna have holes somewhere- unless you have a very deep balanced team.
 
gameboy said:
I see no harm with stacking. It is basically a random blind draw. I don't know anyone would get upset by it.
Click to expand...

It creates more dynamics. It has a strategy aspect. It allows a guessing game. It needs to stay the same. I got the same survey and voted against question that hinted at changing it.

It make sandbagging more valuable. If you have a total ringer, he just became more valuable.
 
Stacking can just as easily work against you as for you, unless you happen to know for a fact what your opponent will do.

In our league, pretty much all teams stack, but not all the time, making it an exercise in guesswork - and the better teams almost always win. When it comes to playoffs and districts, only the deepest teams win, stacking or not.

This is USTA looking for a problem where there isn't one.
 
Spokewench said:
In this case, it is a reaction to people's reactions to stacking. Now, as far as I see it, there is no such thing as stacking, but others believe otherwise.

You cannot stop stacking if someone wants to do it; even if the lower court is weighed less than the top. I think this is not a well thought out attack on a problem that really does not exist.
Click to expand...

I'm with you, but I think we are in the minority. I tell people over and over again that USTA league tennis is rated and the numbers are simply court assignments. It falls on dead ears.
 
If this is a way to get more competitive matches then I am all for it. There is nothing worse than driving all over town for a match and then playing against someone who is playing up and is probably at the lower end of their level.

Sure the other team just gave themselves a better chance to win another court, but for the sacrificial lamb playing the other teams better player neither one has any fun.
 
I am against it.

Right now, I can put strong players on court one and weaker players on court three. I can tell the strong ones this is because they are strongest. I can tell the weak ones that court assignments don't matter, so court three is not an insult.

Once the court assignments are weighted, I will be smoked out and the weak players will be insulted to be viewed as weak.
 
Cindysphinx said:
I am against it.

Right now, I can put strong players on court one and weaker players on court three. I can tell the strong ones this is because they are strongest. I can tell the weak ones that court assignments don't matter, so court three is not an insult.

Once the court assignments are weighted, I will be smoked out and the weak players will be insulted to be viewed as weak.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you have practices Cindy - all you need to do is keep track of which pairs win more in practices and which lose more and send a practice report to the team. They will then see it in black and white that they are either stronger or weaker.
 
Took the survey yesterday.

Pretty much think it is a terrible idea.

I only said it would be accepted at a National level, keep it out of local leagues.
 
damazing said:
It sounds like you have practices Cindy - all you need to do is keep track of which pairs win more in practices and which lose more and send a practice report to the team. They will then see it in black and white that they are either stronger or weaker.
Click to expand...

No, we don't have practices. Assessments of who is strong and who is weak is based entirely on my personal opinion.

I can imagine why players might sometimes disagree. If I think a pair is weaker, I will use them against weaker teams and/or I will keep them off of the higher courts. Because of this, they might win. At the same time, their stronger teammates are doing the heavy lifting against stronger opponents and might lose more.

As it stands, I get smoked out when it comes time for playoffs. I had one lady get super mad at me when she wasn't put into the line-up for districts.

Folks don't want to know how weak they are, and I don't want to be the bearer of bad news.
 
I like the idea. I have always hated stacking--it has led to so many crummy, non-competitive matches for me. I think the PPP idea is interesting.
 
If USTA wants to implement this, they need to publish the USTA ratings hundredth or even thousands decimal points, so I know who is the best player on my team.

The players are so similar at this level, it would be a crap shoot for me on many cases. I need help on determining who is really "better".
 
Cindysphinx said:
No, we don't have practices. Assessments of who is strong and who is weak is based entirely on my personal opinion.

I can imagine why players might sometimes disagree. If I think a pair is weaker, I will use them against weaker teams and/or I will keep them off of the higher courts. Because of this, they might win. At the same time, their stronger teammates are doing the heavy lifting against stronger opponents and might lose more.

As it stands, I get smoked out when it comes time for playoffs. I had one lady get super mad at me when she wasn't put into the line-up for districts.

Folks don't want to know how weak they are, and I don't want to be the bearer of bad news.
Click to expand...

Get a team report from me for your team and make me the bad guy :)
 
gameboy said:
If USTA wants to implement this, they need to publish the USTA ratings hundredth or even thousands decimal points, so I know who is the best player on my team.

The players are so similar at this level, it would be a crap shoot for me on many cases. I need help on determining who is really "better".
Click to expand...

PPP doesn't require that you play the higher rated player on court 1, it only rewards a win on court 1 more than a win on a higher numbered court. It is up to you on how to manage who you play on which court.

Ratings are oftentimes an indicator of who is better, but that isn't always the case and you should be playing your "best" on court 1 based on who you think is best and/or how you think you will maximize your team's points from the team match.
 
I think it's interesting. Everyone around here stacks all the time and although it probably doesn't really change the outcome over the course of a season I would prefer everyone to just play straight up every match. Take the guessing game out of it and have a good matchup on each court. I'm not sure I like the idea of a match not having a winner but I'm interested in something being done.

I was just talking to a teammate about a USTA app or something where both teams enter the lineups and it gives you the seeds based on the ratings. That would be my preference if it were easy enough to do.
 
Not sure what stacking is. Playing your #1 player on court 2, your #2 player on court 3, and your number #3 player on court 1, so as to hopefully win 2 of 3 singles courts ?
 
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