Poll about Nadal & Djokovic rivalry

What would you rather?

  • Up 29-27 overall but Down 6-10 in slams

    Votes: 15 17.9%

  • Down 27-29 overall but Up 10-6 in slams

    Votes: 69 82.1%
  • Total voters
    84
  • Poll closed .
N01E said:
Remove those 3 and it is 10-0 for Nadal. You can also add all 6 back to Rafa (he was objectively better player in all of those matches, despite being injured) and it's 16-0. Absolute domination.
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Was not criticising just simply pointing out apart from 10 years ago major wise its been one sided rivalry
 
USO said:
Yeah, one is obviously better but they are under the same category of titles.

I can’t say the most important things in GOAT debate are in order :

Slam titles
Slam title defence
Slams won per year
Slams per surface
CYGS
NCYGS
Slam finals
Slams won in straight sets
Weeks at no.1

So you can’t start splitting slams into tons of categories, the point is rankings with weeks at no.1 and ye#1 are too close to split. They are both about ranking points.
Click to expand...
Typical Nadal fan. Making all things about slams because it is all he has and that will not last either.
 
Texas Tennis Fan said:
Typical Nadal fan. Making all things about slams because it is all he has and that will not last either.
Click to expand...
Actually it has been about slams since Rod Laver era. I get it is painful for some but not sure Nadal fans started the Slams Matter Most movement. You need to go back 50 years bud to raise a complaint.
 
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Beckerserve said:
Actually it has been about slams since Rod Laver era. I get it is painful for some but not sure Nadal fans started the Slams Matter Most movement. You need to go back 50 years bud to raise a complaint.
Click to expand...
Surely you know that maximizing slams is only a thing since around Sampras, right? You do know that prior to that players would many times skip slams?
 
GabeT said:
Surely you know that maximizing slams is only a thing since around Sampras, right? You do know that prior to that players would many times skip slams?
Click to expand...
So in the 80s and 70s literally all that was covered were slams and even that was just FO W and USO.
Actually the advent of the old Super 9 series (now the m1000s) was when the powers that be tried to level up the tour and make it about more than slams. That is why those super 9s had their points increased to 1000.
When Federer had both records all that was talked about was Majors.
It was only once it became clear Djokovic would get weeks at no.1 that certain people banged on about it.
The classic counter is Steffi v Serena. Media all say Serena is greater despite Steffi having more weeks at no.1 a tougher era and a golden calendar slam. That ends any debate as to what is heralded as the big achievement even if we may disagree.
 
Sputnik Bulgorov said:
5 of Nadal’s 10 wins came before 2011. It’s been neck and neck since then. Outside of RG, it’s actually been completely one-sided, 5-1 in Djokovic’s favor.
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Tennis didnt start in 2011. Nadal had written an entire book of his career before then lol.
The best of Nadal is probably pre 2011. That he still dominated the tour post 2011 with Djokovic shows how the tour standard declined and how Djokovic had a penchant for choking big matches.
 
Beckerserve said:
Tennis didnt start in 2011. Nadal had written an entire book of his career before then lol.
The best of Nadal is probably pre 2011. That he still dominated the tour post 2011 with Djokovic shows how the tour standard declined and how Djokovic had a penchant for choking big matches.
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You take away Djokovic’s 3 wins because they happened 10 years ago, but you don’t apply the same standard to Rafa since half his wins came from 10-15 years ago.

Rafa did not dominate the tour post 2011. He dominated one surface. Djokovic has been the dominant player of the 2010’s and it’s difficult to argue otherwise.
 
Sputnik Bulgorov said:
You take away Djokovic’s 3 wins because they happened 10 years ago, but you don’t apply the same standard to Rafa since half his wins came from 10-15 years ago.

Rafa did not dominate the tour post 2011. He dominated one surface. Djokovic has been the dominant player of the 2010’s and it’s difficult to argue otherwise.
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Nope Nadal and Djokovic largely shared the slams. Nadal 4 USOs in one decade and 8 FOs i think so nice spread there. Hard to argue otherwise.
 
Beckerserve said:
Actually it has been about slams since Rod Laver era. I get it is painful for some but not sure Nadal fans started the Slams Matter Most movement. You need to go back 50 years bud to raise a complaint.
Click to expand...

It’s not. Otherwise, most wouldn’t have regarded Laver higher than Sampras.

It’s not just slams and most top 10s reflect this.
 
To continue an earlier conversation and also include Fed, at the end of 2010, Fed had 16 slams, Nadal had 9, and Djokovic had 1. Beginning with 2011 until now, Djokovic has won 17 slams, Nadal has won 11, and Fed has won 4. Quite an impressive turnaround by Djokovic.
 
Djokovic also had an impressive turnaround in his H2H against Nadal. Af the end of 2010, Djokovic was 0-5 in slams and 7-11 in non-slams. Beginning in 2011 until now, Djokovic is 6-5 in slams and 16-11 in non-slams.
 
Beckerserve said:
Laver has two CYGS that is why he is ahead of Sampras. I.e due to Majors.
Click to expand...

I thought you were referring to total number of slams. But even then, the lists I was referring to don’t only use slams to rank the players. You won’t be able to find a single “great of all time” list that doesn’t factor in additional accomplishment. If/When Nadal gets to 21 slams, do you think everyone will just automatically vault him to the top? No, because he is deficient in several areas whereas Federer is much more well-rounded and more accomplished.

Slams are not the end all be all
 
Tony48 said:
I thought you were referring to total number of slams. But even then, the lists I was referring to don’t only use slams to rank the players. You won’t be able to find a single “great of all time” list that doesn’t factor in additional accomplishment. If/When Nadal gets to 21 slams, do you think everyone will just automatically vault him to the top? No, because he is deficient in several areas whereas Federer is much more well-rounded and more accomplished.

Slams are not the end all be all
Click to expand...
Nadal is largely already considered the Greatest. The debate is between him and Federer and rightly so. They lead the slam leaderboard. They also are the two most complete players of all time. Nadal only player this era to win more than one major on 2 surfaces and only player ever to win 3 slams in a row on three surfaces in a calendar year and Federer only ever player to win more than 10 titles on each of the three surfaces. They are the Big 2 and shall remain that way unless Djokovic gets 3 more Majors to get past 20 and even then i suspect many will say he only did it when Fedal were past it.
People only look at slams. Has always been that way.
 
Beckerserve said:
Nadal is largely already considered the Greatest. The debate is between him and Federer and rightly so. They lead the slam leaderboard. They also are the two most complete players of all time. Nadal only player this era to win more than one major on 2 surfaces and only player ever to win 3 slams in a row on three surfaces in a calendar year and Federer only ever player to win more than 10 titles on each of the three surfaces. They are the Big 2 and shall remain that way unless Djokovic gets 3 more Majors to get past 20 and even then i suspect many will say he only did it when Fedal were past it.
People only look at slams. Has always been that way.
Click to expand...

1. Nadal is not “largely” considered the greatest. What are you basing that on? A quick Google search shows that that is not true.

2. You really didn’t address anything else I said. You just repeated stuff you’ve already said and didn’t back any of it up. I could just as easily say that the sky is made of cheese. Like I said before, every single “greatest of all time” list includes several other accomplishments (weeks at No. 1, Masters, win-loss, etc.) when compiling the list. Again, a quick Google search will demonstrate that. Slams are not the only criteria and never have been.
 
Tony48 said:
1. Nadal is not “largely” considered the greatest. What are you basing that on? A quick Google search shows that that is not true.

2. You really didn’t address anything else I said. You just repeated stuff you’ve already said and didn’t back any of it up. I could just as easily say that the sky is made of cheese. Like I said before, every single “greatest of all time” list includes several other accomplishments (weeks at No. 1, Masters, win-loss, etc.) when compiling the list. Again, a quick Google search will demonstrate that. Slams are not the only criteria and never have been.
Click to expand...
Every expert has Nadal and Federer as GOAT and some say Laver. Slam record and CYGS are the big ones.
 
Beckerserve said:
Every expert has Nadal and Federer as GOAT and some say Laver. Slam record and CYGS are the big ones.
Click to expand...
I've also heard "experts" claim that Novak is or definitely will be the GOAT by the time it all settles...
Therefore, I don't believe in any of the "Experts" opinions...
Nadal H2H slam record is heavily skewed due to his undisputed dominance on Clay. 7:1 on Clay, 3:5 on the rest.

"The two have faced each other 56 times with Djokovic leading 29–27.[3][4][5] Djokovic leads 15–12 in finals. Of these matches, 16 have been in Grand Slams with Nadal leading 10–6. Nadal leads 7–1 at the French Open and 2–1 at the US Open, while Djokovic leads 2–0 at the Australian Open and 2–1 at Wimbledon."

Let's see what the numbers look like in 2024/25 when the remaining 2 of the big 4 also turn into the punching bags...
 
dr325i said:
I've also heard "experts" claim that Novak is or definitely will be the GOAT by the time it all settles...
Therefore, I don't believe in any of the "Experts" opinions...
Nadal H2H slam record is heavily skewed due to his undisputed dominance on Clay. 7:1 on Clay, 3:5 on the rest.

"The two have faced each other 56 times with Djokovic leading 29–27.[3][4][5] Djokovic leads 15–12 in finals. Of these matches, 16 have been in Grand Slams with Nadal leading 10–6. Nadal leads 7–1 at the French Open and 2–1 at the US Open, while Djokovic leads 2–0 at the Australian Open and 2–1 at Wimbledon."

Let's see what the numbers look like in 2024/25 when the remaining 2 of the big 4 also turn into the punching bags...
Click to expand...
I am not talking about what will happen. Projecting what will happen is futile. I have not seen anyone say Djokovic is GOAT currently. He simply cannot be when behind the slam count.
Rafa clearly has built his career around solely Majors. He has missed so many smaller events. Federer i felt lost interest in events outside slams around 10 years ago. Federer for instance tweeted when Rafa equalled his slam count. It was a big deal.
Not seen him say a word about weeks at no.1. Suggests he is not that bothered.
Did not see any players actually mention it. I may have missed their tweets but practically every player mentioned Nadal matching Federer. And Djokovic is more popular than Nadal in locker room apparently.
 
Beckerserve said:
I am not talking about what will happen. Projecting what will happen is futile. I have not seen anyone say Djokovic is GOAT currently. He simply cannot be when behind the slam count.
Rafa clearly has built his career around solely Majors. He has missed so many smaller events. Federer i felt lost interest in events outside slams around 10 years ago. Federer for instance tweeted when Rafa equalled his slam count. It was a big deal.
Not seen him say a word about weeks at no.1. Suggests he is not that bothered.
Did not see any players actually mention it. I may have missed their tweets but practically every player mentioned Nadal matching Federer. And Djokovic is more popular than Nadal in locker room apparently.
Click to expand...
I am sure you have not heard experts call that because it does not fit your agenda. But plenty of them called Novak as the greatest (already) in the past.

I am not saying I agree with them, however, I am not saying I agree with those calling Rafa or RF the GOATs either.

Federer said enough about “not being bothered” by 311 by coming back on stage incidentally that EXACT week at a 250 event and get spanked and has not showed up ever since then. LOL. The Swiss angel at his best!

www.tennis365.com

Pat Cash: 'Novak Djokovic is the best of the lot, Roger Federer is not even second greatest in his own era' - Tennis365

Former Wimbledon champion Pat Cash believes Novak Djokovic is already ahead of Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal in terms of who is the greatest player of their generation.
www.tennis365.com www.tennis365.com

www.google.com

Novak Djokovic: 10 Reasons He's Better Than Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer

Novak Djokovic is a better player than Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer , and this season has proved it. In winning almost 96 percent of his matches, and losing only one from 11 meetings with Nadal and Federer, Novak Djokovic has proved it...
www.google.com www.google.com

www.google.com

Andy Roddick, Jim Courier Say Novak Djokovic Is The Favorite To Finish As The GOAT Of Men’s Tennis

Novak Djokovic currently owns 17 Grand Slam singles titles, three fewer than his chief rivals Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal, but because Djokovic is younger and still in his prime he has the inside track to finish as the Greatest of All Time in men’s tennis.
www.google.com www.google.com

www.leeabbamonte.com

Who is the greatest men’s tennis player of all time?

Who is the greatest men’s tennis player of all time? The 3 greatest players ever are all playing right now; Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal.
www.leeabbamonte.com www.leeabbamonte.com
 
dr325i said:
I am sure you have not heard experts call that because it does not fit your agenda. But plenty of them called Novak as the greatest (already) in the past.

I am not saying I agree with them, however, I am not saying I agree with those calling Rafa or RF the GOATs either.

Federer said enough about “not being bothered” by 311 by coming back on stage incidentally that EXACT week at a 250 event and get spanked and has not showed up ever since then. LOL. The Swiss angel at his best!

www.tennis365.com

Pat Cash: 'Novak Djokovic is the best of the lot, Roger Federer is not even second greatest in his own era' - Tennis365

Former Wimbledon champion Pat Cash believes Novak Djokovic is already ahead of Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal in terms of who is the greatest player of their generation.
www.tennis365.com www.tennis365.com

www.google.com

Novak Djokovic: 10 Reasons He's Better Than Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer

Novak Djokovic is a better player than Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer , and this season has proved it. In winning almost 96 percent of his matches, and losing only one from 11 meetings with Nadal and Federer, Novak Djokovic has proved it...
www.google.com www.google.com

www.google.com

Andy Roddick, Jim Courier Say Novak Djokovic Is The Favorite To Finish As The GOAT Of Men’s Tennis

Novak Djokovic currently owns 17 Grand Slam singles titles, three fewer than his chief rivals Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal, but because Djokovic is younger and still in his prime he has the inside track to finish as the Greatest of All Time in men’s tennis.
www.google.com www.google.com

www.leeabbamonte.com

Who is the greatest men’s tennis player of all time?

Who is the greatest men’s tennis player of all time? The 3 greatest players ever are all playing right now; Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal.
www.leeabbamonte.com www.leeabbamonte.com
Click to expand...
I agree with you as it happens as i do not think you can compare eras so the GOAT term is moot. But certain it has to be said Djokovic fans make such inconsistent contradictory arguments that i just use their own measures which in fact would using their yardsticks have Nadal as GOAT.
But yes careers have to be over to even begin the debate.
 
Roddick, Courier, and Wilander as I remember. Of course, you are going to discount anyone I say.

Everyone including me, says that all is in flux depending on what happens moving forward.
 
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