[POLL] Are slam titles really the only metric to determine the GOAT?

After the slams, what is the second parameter you evaluate to establish to GOAT?

  • Total voters
    78
Drighiz said:
Hmmm yeah but do they inspire greatness? Are they the matches you will remember forever and tell your grandkids about?
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So I’m guessing your GOAT is Nadal cuz he has had those matches with Fed and Djoker both winning and losing a decent amount of times.
 
For sure it can't be Masters titles because making the finals of a slam is harder than and gives more points than a Masters title

An M1000 is like a semifinals of a slam, which gives 900 pts IIRC
 
FRV4 said:
So I’m guessing your GOAT is Nadal cuz he has had those matches with Fed and Djoker both winning and losing a decent amount of times.
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I feel like you guys keep trying to guess "my GOAT" as if I were pushing some kind of agenda? I don't really have an opinion, it was just an idea and it would require a much deeper and historical knowledge of tennis than mine. There must be legendary matches or stories from long ago that I've never heard of. But for instance, as much as I like Sinner his last two slams have not been very exciting so they wouldn't count much towards his "greatness" in this sense. While a story like Djokovic winning the Olympics against Alcaraz, or Madison Keys winning AO 25 are pretty dope.
 
Drighiz said:
I feel like you guys keep trying to guess "my GOAT" as if I were pushing some kind of agenda? I don't really have an opinion, it was just an idea and it would require a much deeper and historical knowledge of tennis than mine. There must be legendary matches or stories from long ago that I've never heard of. But for instance, as much as I like Sinner his last two slams have not been very exciting so they wouldn't count much towards his "greatness" in this sense. While a story like Djokovic winning the Olympics against Alcaraz, or Madison Keys winning AO 25 are pretty dope.
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To generate legendary or epic matches, whatever you want, it takes two to do it. If I am a player clearly superior to the competition, should this be a fault?
 
I guess it depends on how strong the competition is perceived to be. But ultimately it boils down to what we want "greatest" to mean. Do we mean "strongest"? Then we do the hypotheticals. Most successful? We count the slams and masters. Most legendary? Then maybe we count the amazing memories.
 
Winner Sinner said:
To generate legendary or epic matches, whatever you want, it takes two to do it. If I am a player clearly superior to the competition, should this be a fault?
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I wouldn't call it a fault of course. It's still pretty amazing to be the best of all the competition. But in an epic sense, it could be a bit unlucky if the competition was perceived to be mediocre. Heroes are always in desperate need to find great villains and overcome insurmountable challenges against all odds if they want to look truly great, that's what makes a good story.
 
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Oleksandr.Usyk said:
Then you are wrong, as always. When generations of Federer's fans die, people will remember only results. Nobody will care about Rogers 5th place or Nadal third place. Result will stay forever. That's the reason why Kasparov will always be rated higher than likeable Tal.
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Yeah, right... No one remembers Jim Thorpe, Muhammad Ali, Pele, Babe Ruth ?
 
ND-13 said:
Djokovic also got pigeoned by Roddick, which is worse.
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it depend what you mean with pigeoned.

- they played a single digit of matches there nole won 4 and roddick 5 one being RET.
- nole won convincingly last 2 matches and they played only once i noles ERA with result 6-2, 6-1 (on grass!) for nole.
- roddick himself said that he realized that he can not hang with the top guys any longer after his last match vs nole and decide to retire (he was 29) and that is the reason that he kept his positive h2h vs him.
 
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GoatNo1 said:
it depend what you mean with pigeoned.

- they played a single digit of matches there nole won 4 and rodich 5 one being RET.
- nole won convincingly last 2 matches and they played only once i noles ERA with result 6-2, 6-1 (on grass!) for nole.
- roddick himself said that he realized that he can not hang with the top guys any longer after his last match vs nole and decide to retire (he was 29) and that is the reason that he kept his positive h2h vs him.
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Who leads the h2h ?
 
Drighiz said:
I feel like you guys keep trying to guess "my GOAT" as if I were pushing some kind of agenda? I don't really have an opinion, it was just an idea and it would require a much deeper and historical knowledge of tennis than mine. There must be legendary matches or stories from long ago that I've never heard of. But for instance, as much as I like Sinner his last two slams have not been very exciting so they wouldn't count much towards his "greatness" in this sense. While a story like Djokovic winning the Olympics against Alcaraz, or Madison Keys winning AO 25 are pretty dope.
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I just got saw this thread yesterday, didn’t read most of it so I don’t really know if ppl were trying to act like you had an agenda. I was just guessing for fun.
 
Oleksandr.Usyk said:
It is not true. It is your cope. Federer was not past his prime while he was 34. The same goes for 34 years old Djokovic and Nadal. There is nothing like an optimum age if the athletes move on super high level. On one side numbers are not important to you, but with age numbers are important to you haha. The reality is that results and performance matters the most. Djokovic, Nadal and Federer in their 34 are Prime and not only that, they were constantly improving their craft. This generation extended their prime. You mentally live in Borgs or Sampras era. The same in boxing. Look at Usyk's masterclass in heavyweight 38 years old and there are more examples from football etc. In fact those players improved skill through years. Btw. nice cherry pick from you with 2012 - 2014. How about 2011 - 2014 or 2011-2015. Not to mention all of big four have been in their Prime. And btw. Speaking about injuries. There is a one big difference. Djokovic did not want to go for elbow surgery because it was not connected with his believes. So he could control it, go on surgery and get AO 2017, 2018 plus Wimbledon 2017 and US Open 2017. But he deliberately did not because of his stupidity . That's a waste. Federer and Nadal did not waste. So Djokovic underachieved. Federer and Nadal always did the best to recover as fast as possible. That's the reason why they did not underachieve. Djokovic is super competitive against 16 years younger wonder kids in his age is more impressive than Federer and Nadal who are similar age like Djokovic. It is funny when you talk about Federer like about grandpa, but he is the same generation like Djokovic, Nadal. But Federer was lucky to be a little bit younger so He could get more GS in weak era. Btw. Djokovic broke a sweat against this young gen. It is just your selective coping memory that you do not see his tough matches.
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Strongly disagree.
You believe this all you want but nothing is going to convince real tennis fans that have watched tennis and follow the big 3's entire career closely.
 
Neptune said:
So the gap between Nole and Fed is about the same as the entire 1990s- and 2000s-born players combined? When will people finally admit it? Lol. :cool:
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Djokovic is 6 years younger and had a HUGE advantage over the pathetic competition between mid 2016-2023. Those years are the NextGen from the 90s born players are weak
 
criteria(only in one epoch)
1.Grand slam
2. Head to Head(shows. which of them is stronger)
Novak-Rafa 31-29
Novak-Roger 27-23
 
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Hitman said:
I'll say this again, you are painting it out like this is some new thing, that only Djokovic fans have done, when we both know, this has been done by Federer fans for years here, and Nadal fans had their turn in 2022.

The thing you need to acknowledge is that no fanbase is full of saints, and this sort of stuff always happens, it just depends on who is on top.
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Fans will feel, think, and believe who's the best/greatest is always going to be their favorite players. They will always defend/support their player whether if it's Laver, Sampras, Borg, Federer, Nadal or Djokovic fans. The problem today is that many(not all) Djokovic fanboys constantly force their opinion down your throat. If you disagree they get mad, aggressive and emotionally out of control. This has to be stop because the spamming is polluting what use to be a wonderful tennis forum. The

  • sheer arrogant(and ignorant)
  • no respect
  • extreme entitlement
  • aggressiveness
  • lack of accountability
are the biggest problems on this board
 
TMF said:
Fans will feel, think, and believe who's the best/greatest is always going to be their favorite players. They will always defend/support their player whether if it's Laver, Sampras, Borg, Federer, Nadal or Djokovic fans. The problem today is that many(not all) Djokovic fanboys constantly force their opinion down your throat. If you disagree they get mad, aggressive and emotionally out of control. This has to be stop because the spamming is polluting what use to be a wonderful tennis forum. The

  • sheer arrogant(and ignorant)
  • no respect
  • extreme entitlement
  • aggressiveness
  • lack of accountability
are the biggest problems on this board
Click to expand...

I understand your point, but I will tell you right now, this has been going on for years here and you know it. You are singling out Djokovic fans, because right now it is in almost every thread you take part in, but many Federer fans were doing the same thing for years. Nadal fans had their dark moments for a short period also.

How many times did we see 17>14>12, or some other version of it year after year, and people being forced to accept it and the entitlement that came with those statements? You simply don't like that the Djokovic fanbase has the leverage when it comes to the numbers now, I understand that, I get that, but what is very disingenuous here is that you are not acknowledging or accepting that Federer and Nadal fans have done the same, you generalize it by saying fans will think and feel how they will, without outright pointing the finger at them also for the same crimes, you very quickly point at Djokovic fans. They were just as guilty.

I know there are bad apples in all three fan bases and beyond that, this abrasive talk has been going on for years, and will continue to. Anyways, that is enough on this. I simply don't like the hypocrisy.
 
Hitman said:
Are you saying they started moving the goal posts? :eek:
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Long ago in childhood i was told a story about fox and grape. In those days moral of the story was not understood but this GOAT race has simply told me that grapes are sour .
If fedrer was to win this race and nadal and novak were behind when all 3 retired all people were happy.
If nadal was to win this race fedrer fan still could have their case because of fedrer all court resume. But there was a
3 person who came from behind and left fedrer and nadal behind. Now thousand and one excuses are coming . People preception....beautiful play...even money earned through advertisements and endorsement.....statue....aura...
This all excuses are fedal fans of saying
GRAPES ARE SOUR.
 
Oleksandr.Usyk said:
Then you are wrong, as always. When generations of Federer's fans die, people will remember only results. Nobody will care about Rogers 5th place or Nadal third place. Result will stay forever. That's the reason why Kasparov will always be rated higher than likeable Tal.
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A great example you gave
Kasparov and tal . Tal was more likable but no grandmaster of 2700 strength will vote for tal above kasparov. Public liking can give you some little awards here and there but what professional of that sports thing that is more important. Having said that fedrer nadal novak are not that far enough . 20 22 24 looks very close indeed but if novak find 2 more than it is cleared in every fan mind that novak won
 
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