ForehandRF
Legend
Ok, I misunderstood
Poll: Big 3 - Peak for Peak - Who’s the Best?
- Thread starter Federev
- Start date
FiReFTW
Legend
They are all GOAT players and each and everyone of them can beat the other on most surfaces, bar maybe Clay if Nadal is in full form.
Their head to heads are quite even despite many variables and factors that are into account, and most matches they played were very tight and could go either way bad a point or two, or a choke or two.
So whatever someone says or whoever favorite they have you have to admit that.
For example Djokovic leads Federer 3:1 on grass, yet in two of those matches particularly 2019, it could have easily went the other way.
On other surfaces where they all played more matches its even more obvious where it could have been 7:7 or 10:4 or 4:10..depending on a few points here or there.
Peak for peak in their best years which would be 2005-06 for Fed, 2011-12 for Djokovic and 2008 or 2013 for Nadal
In slams:
Australian Open:
Djokovic has an edge against Federer and Nadal
Federer has an edge against Nadal
French Open:
Nadal has a huge edge against Federer and Djokovic
Federer and Djokovic are about even, small differences mean the difference between the victor
Wimbledon:
Federer has an edge against Djokovic and Nadal
Djokovic has an edge against Nadal
USO:
By far the hardest to judge, I would say they are all equal here, despite Djokovic's lack of titles he has shown some impressive performances, they all have, so I think it would come down to very little things amongst them all
Their head to heads are quite even despite many variables and factors that are into account, and most matches they played were very tight and could go either way bad a point or two, or a choke or two.
So whatever someone says or whoever favorite they have you have to admit that.
For example Djokovic leads Federer 3:1 on grass, yet in two of those matches particularly 2019, it could have easily went the other way.
On other surfaces where they all played more matches its even more obvious where it could have been 7:7 or 10:4 or 4:10..depending on a few points here or there.
Peak for peak in their best years which would be 2005-06 for Fed, 2011-12 for Djokovic and 2008 or 2013 for Nadal
In slams:
Australian Open:
Djokovic has an edge against Federer and Nadal
Federer has an edge against Nadal
French Open:
Nadal has a huge edge against Federer and Djokovic
Federer and Djokovic are about even, small differences mean the difference between the victor
Wimbledon:
Federer has an edge against Djokovic and Nadal
Djokovic has an edge against Nadal
USO:
By far the hardest to judge, I would say they are all equal here, despite Djokovic's lack of titles he has shown some impressive performances, they all have, so I think it would come down to very little things amongst them all
D
Deleted member 748597
Guest
Fedovic > Nadal
I don't know who is better between Federer and Djokovic. But peak Fedovic are better all around players than Nadal.
I don't know who is better between Federer and Djokovic. But peak Fedovic are better all around players than Nadal.
RS
Bionic Poster
Another brainless ball basher with a decent but not great technical game but a lot of power really gave GOATovic some really big problems eh?
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RS
Bionic Poster
Nope you got the wrong player
skaj
Legend
Yes, in most cases, so? What does that have to do with the thread and my post?
Per weaponry, they're dead even, 40 all: Fed (forehand, serve, net), Nole (backhand, return, BL). Tiebreak and advantage goes decisively to Nole, because of mental toughness!
A rarer commodity is always economically more precious. And Djokovic's strengths (backhand, return) are rarer, and therefore more precious!
In this era of tennis, BL is more important than net play. In previous eras, that mightn't be the case!
A rarer commodity is always economically more precious. And Djokovic's strengths (backhand, return) are rarer, and therefore more precious!
In this era of tennis, BL is more important than net play. In previous eras, that mightn't be the case!
Frans Bleker
Professional
Yeah, he didnt won that set indeed. But I remember seeing it and it was insane. Think its still on youtube to watch.
rUDin 21
Hall of Fame
The closest we got was 2011-12 seasons + a very good Murray.
when 2 players are technically and game-wise equally good then it is precisely the head that decides and that is precisely why nole has the upper hand over fed. it is no coincidence that he saved 6 MP in 3 slam matches that he won against fed. their h2h is 27-23 for nole. if fed had won those matches it would have been 24-26 for fed. their slams matches are 11-6 nole, would be 8-9 fed. slam finals are 4-1 nole, would be 2-2. but it is not luck but the head that made it go over in nole's favor. because the more important the match, the more important the set, the more important the game in the match and the more important point in the game the more it goes to nole's advantage.
all matches: 27 (+ WO) - 23 for nole
matches before final: 14 - 17 for fed
finals: 13 (+ WO) - 6 for nole
matches outside GS: 16 - 17 for fed
GS matches: 11 - 6 for nole
GS matches before F: 7 - 5 nole
GS finals: 4 - 1 nole
WTF matches: 3 (+ WO) - 3
WTF matches before F: 1 - 3 for fed
WTF F: 2 (+ WO) - 0 nole
fed is better in TB during the career for 0.5% units than nole. but:
their h2h TBs: 16 - 12 for nole
Non-critical TBs: 12 - 12
deciding TBs: 4 - 0 for nole
fed has taken more sets than nole in their h2h, 73 - 74 for fed but:
non-critical sets: 59 - 69 for fed
deciding sets: 14 - 5 for nole.
and then we have the 3 slams matches with 40-15 at MP.
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mike danny
Bionic Poster
I think in the Fedal match-up, on the slower AO surface, Nadal has the edge, while on the faster one, Fed does.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic has done it all, he has mastered the game like no other.
The officials on tour presented a calender of tournaments for him to try and win, and he won it all. He won all of ATPs 10 biggest trophies not only once, but twice. He has has not only won all of ITFs four major events, but he has mastered all four of them at the same time. This is on HC, grass and clay, unmatched achievement.
Novak Djokovic is peak for peak the better player and his achievements is proof enough. His trophy cabinet is a testament of his peak qualities, and Fedal can't match it. Add to that Djokovic has bested them on the court so far.
The officials on tour presented a calender of tournaments for him to try and win, and he won it all. He won all of ATPs 10 biggest trophies not only once, but twice. He has has not only won all of ITFs four major events, but he has mastered all four of them at the same time. This is on HC, grass and clay, unmatched achievement.
Novak Djokovic is peak for peak the better player and his achievements is proof enough. His trophy cabinet is a testament of his peak qualities, and Fedal can't match it. Add to that Djokovic has bested them on the court so far.
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
War is over. Fedovic United
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
Federer: 92
Djokovic: 64
Nadal: 26
there‘s levels to this
Nadal is a great player on all courts but it cannot be denied his achievements outside of clay pales in comparison for tennis played outside of those two months
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I don't recall Djokovic winning 3 slams 3 different years.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Djokovic beat the shi*tiest Nadal of all time in 2015
Nadal 2019 should be there as well. It’s his 2nd best year after 2010 at the Slams and his most consistent ever. He won RG and USO, reached the AO final without losing a set and only lost to Federer in the Wimbledon SF.
Also he had his best off-clay winning percentage last year.
Djokovic beat the shi*tiest Nadal of all time in 2015
nole beat the best version of rafa in 7 big finals in a row on all surfaces!
| 2012 | Australian Open Australia | Outdoor Hard | F | Novak Djokovic | 57 64 62 675 75 |
| 2011 | US Open NY, U.S.A. | Outdoor Hard | F | Novak Djokovic | 62 64 673 61 |
| 2011 | Wimbledon Great Britain | Outdoor Grass | F | Novak Djokovic | 64 61 16 63 |
| 2011 | ATP Masters 1000 Rome Italy | Outdoor Clay | F | Novak Djokovic | 64 64 |
| 2011 | ATP Masters 1000 Madrid Spain | Outdoor Clay | F | Novak Djokovic | 75 64 |
| 2011 | ATP Masters 1000 Miami FL, U.S.A. | Outdoor Hard | F | Novak Djokovic | 46 63 764 |
| 2011 | ATP Masters 1000 Indian Wells CA, U.S.A. | Outdoor Hard | F | Novak Djokovic | 46 63 62 |
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Villain
Professional
Fed couldn’t even beat that Nadal on clay in his dreams.Djokovic beat the shi*tiest Nadal of all time in 2015
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Keep feeding me these, you're making my day Fed can beat Wawrinka though. Djok would only wish
RS
Bionic Poster
Arod.
RS
Bionic Poster
Every match counts.
Beckerserve
Legend
Not even a debate. Nadal. Nothing is sport compares to his level on clay.
Federev
Legend
On clay for sure.
But I didn’t mean just on clay
But yeah - if we’re just talking clay - no point in a poll.
Ash Tennis
Professional
If we’re just talking clay Rafa is a god.
Beckerserve
Legend
Well i think if the queastion is who had the highest peak of the three then it is a case of comparing Federer peak on grass v Djokovic peak on hard v Nadal peak on clay.
Federev
Legend
You could phrase it another way.
I was looking at all surface player - who’s the best when you put it all together.
Otherwise - like I said - why even ask. No one has even come close to Rafa on clay. Probably never will.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
The question really depends on how short we're allowed to refer to "Peak" as. Is it a single season? A 2-3 year stretch? A 5 year stretch? A single match?
Anyone using the Rafa on clay argument loses if we're talking about short peaks. Because Roger's 03-06 years on grass were pretty damn close to Rafa's best years on clay (like 90-95% Rafa's power on clay imo, both virtually unbeatable), which he was doing alongside with being the best hard court player in the game at the time.
Nadal never had a stretch where he was the dominant force on multiple surfaces at the same time. He had a chance to really take over grass if he hadn't gotten hurt in 09, but what happen-ed happen-ed.
Anyone using the Rafa on clay argument loses if we're talking about short peaks. Because Roger's 03-06 years on grass were pretty damn close to Rafa's best years on clay (like 90-95% Rafa's power on clay imo, both virtually unbeatable), which he was doing alongside with being the best hard court player in the game at the time.
Nadal never had a stretch where he was the dominant force on multiple surfaces at the same time. He had a chance to really take over grass if he hadn't gotten hurt in 09, but what happen-ed happen-ed.
Federev
Legend
Yeah...
I offered 3-4 years because I think -admitting all of this is subjective- that the age of 22-28 years old period is probably inclusive of the prime years for most players - with the very peak years falling somewhere in that larger age range.
I think Fed showed his best from around 2003-2007 w 2006 being the very top. A clear drop off in 2008 and -though always great - he never quite returned to that 2006 level.
Rafa is a bit of an anomaly because he peaked a bit early on grass and then peaked later on HC. Clay is ridiculous.
For Novak I think that period of 2011-2015 probably is inclusive of his very best
As I said - it’s all subjective, but I think there is probably a rough sense out there that 3-4 years is a good range to look for the very best of one’s prime.
For the record - I don’t think any of these guys had a more consistent period of great play and field dominance than Federer. (Like the 111-2 HC record from 05-07), I.e. peak.
Other guys have maybe had better spurts or even a year than one of Fed’s best years. But I don’t think anyone has put together a peak period like he did from 2004-2007.
Amazing to think that - even outstripping this period, but including it- he made 18 out of 19 Slam Finals IN A ROW. Almost 5 years straight of him being in EVERY SINGLE slam final.
That’s just mind blowing consistency and general dominance of the ATP, even today.
Nadal_Django
Legend
Peak Federer, but only if he plays against Roddick, Hewitt and Bagdhatis. OTOH when he plays Nadal, Djokovic or Murray i don't trust Fed's Peak that much, tbh...
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Thank you Tennis Analyst.
Federev
Legend
Connor had a 0-17 record vs Lendl in their last 17 meetings.
Consider why.
The meaning of H2H always correlates negatively with age disparity.
Why a near 38 year old holds match points in a Slam Final and, post-38 year old, straight set routines the world #1 - who is six years his junior in the ATP finals with year end #1 at stake - is a much more perplexing question than why Connors was consistently torched by Lendl at the tail end of his career - 17 times in a row -by a foe seven years younger.
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Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
I like Federer
USO
Banned
If peak Djokovic has to save match points against old Federer at the USO and Wimbledon, he’s not so invincible. The problem is that Federer and Nadal are not what they used to in terms of movement because otherwise if Nadal is still moving like 2008 or Federer like 2006 it would be different results. That’s why on faster surfaces Djokovic today has an edge but we are talking about peak form in this thread.
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