[Poll] How long should Jannik Sinner be suspended?
- Thread starter JJGUY
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Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
None. I value my entertainment over tennis morals. Call me selfish.
Minimal suspension, giving him the benefit of the doubt. What you can't do is let someone who has banned substances in his system get off without any type of consequence, then there is no point to the rules, and it sets a bad precedent. If it is his team's fault, then it is Sinner's fault for having a bad team. There is some degree of responsibility.
dking68
G.O.A.T.
Same. If Alcaraz was in this problem, I wouldn’t want him banned. This needs to end
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
This is not the correct view. If a mistake or worse was made it must be corrected. Your view would see injustice and corruption flourish.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
If you believe this then you need to get the doping rules changed for all, not one-off deals for the privileged.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Sharapova's team failed to read the email announcing the banning of meldonium. She got fifteen months for a team failure. And it's her case which found that the player can delegate some responsibility to the team.
JJGUY
Hall of Fame
WADA is asking for 2 years and it might just happen according to their track record on appeals.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
The penalty for unintentional use is up to two years, so WADA is making an ambit claim that will be reduced through counter-arguments.
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Never wrong, Always right
optic yellow
Legend
realistically missing like one or two slams seems fair. just a little slap on the wrist telling him there is no excuse he is not more careful.
JJGUY
Hall of Fame
that's the purpose of the poll here, from 0 to 24 months.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
My point against your remark was that 24 months was and is never going to happen. I voted 5-6 months in the poll.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
If his team made a mistake, Sinner himself must take measures (which he has already taken) against them. The court's task must not be to interfere in these matters when and if it is approved that the player's positivity arrived due to accidental contamination. Fraudsters who use illicit products to improve their sporting performance must be punished. If the substance that enters the player's system does so through accidental contamination, an appropriate regulation must clear the athlete from any responsibility precisely to prevent the situation from being exploited at will. A player cannot live 24 hours a day with an obsession with contamination that forces him to also check the correspondence of other people's privacy. His staff was made up of renowned professionals and not amateurs at risk (other than that Sinner's defense will weigh again in court).
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
You may be right, but you can't dream up your own anti-doping policy. The one that exists should have seen Sinner banned.
The thing that Sinner has in has favor is that Trofodermin was administered to his physio and then transferred to him, as opposed to it being administered to treat Sinner directly. He's not going to get a ban, he's already been punished.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Make it as light as possible. 1 to 4 months
So the naysayers will have something to do and we can throw it back in their FACE once he completes the punishment.
So the naysayers will have something to do and we can throw it back in their FACE once he completes the punishment.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
This is a difference that makes no difference. Both Sharapova and Sinner are blaming the team and the team said it's their fault.
Sharapova has the better case as meldonium was recently banned whereas Sinner's team used a cream with an advised doping warning.
With doping policy, the punishment is a ban and Sinner has not been suspended and yet even Cilic got four months for an innocent mistake.
Sharapova has the better case as meldonium was recently banned whereas Sinner's team used a cream with an advised doping warning.
With doping policy, the punishment is a ban and Sinner has not been suspended and yet even Cilic got four months for an innocent mistake.
Bill Lobsalot
Hall of Fame
WADA sounds like a bunch of idiots. They blew it. Zero suspension. I'm not a fan of organizations deciding what is performance enhancing. That crap the Russians gave Maria and other athletes didn't do squat. Ban coffee? Gatorade?
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
It does in a way because punishment scales must be consistent over time or else massive injustices will occur.
Sharapova got 15, Cilic got 4 and Sinne got 0. This is just far too inconsistent.
Sharapova got 15, Cilic got 4 and Sinne got 0. This is just far too inconsistent.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
I agree with your line of thinking, but this is not the current doping policy.
WADA did not blow anything. It's trying to restore order.
The ITIA somehow managed to send off Sinner's case to a Tribunal that blew it.
WADA did not blow anything. It's trying to restore order.
The ITIA somehow managed to send off Sinner's case to a Tribunal that blew it.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Rules in the real world are same for everyone but it is always the execution of rules tht vary. Sinner is more important to the game at this point than Sinner/Cilic, so he will be protected, no surprise.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
If the ITIA is protecting some players by sending them off to friendly Tribunals, then WADA needs to find a way to stop this.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Troicki was gone for 18 months just because he failed to provide a sample, Sinner failed 2 tests entirely; so I'd say he should be banned until the end of 2025.
dking68
G.O.A.T.
Let’s see
objection_
Semi-Pro
1 month in the offseason lol
Allegedly.
I see several problems with your argument.
First, you are making some assumptions, and we need to deal with facts. You are assuming that this was a product of accidental contamination (though you acknowledge that there was some degree of negligence on Sinner's team's part). But this is just an assumption, it is not a proven fact. It is possible that Sinner's claim is true, but it is also possible he just got caught. Doping protocols are sophisticated, and Clostebol could be used to such end intentionally. In any case, this seems to be a problem among Italian athletes, and it's hard to believe that this is all coincidence: https://honestsport.substack.com/p/italys-clostebol-doping-crisis-across
You mentioned that Sinner took measures against his team. But it appears as if he didn't terminate Naldi as soon as Sinner and his team were informed of the positive test results, but much later, as the case was going to be made public. Does that make sense to you?
In any case, incompetence or negligence by a player's team shouldn't negate any responsibility by the player, in my opinion. The player appoints the team, and if any actions from the team cause the player to break some rule, the responsibility for the breaking of that rule should still remain on the part of the player.
I have no idea if Sinner was doping or not. But even if I thought he was innocent, I wouldn't want justice to be administered based on belief, but on facts.
Personally, I have no idea whether Sinner doped or not, I can't decide. On one hand he seems like a person of integrity. On the other hand, experience has taught me to never trust appearances regarding people's characters. And the fact that so many Italian athletes get caught with Clostebol is concerning anyway.
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Mainad
Bionic Poster
Any penalties for mistakes should be laid at the door of the ATP. I see no value in retroactively suspending Sinner just because the ATP may have made a mistake in not suspending him in the first place.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
The ITIA is not just the ATP and if a mistake was made it can be corrected through CAS. That is their job although it's usually the player who appeals.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Do you ever miss the time you were a Covid "expert?" What about the month you became an "expert" on Australian immigration laws?
The only thing you'll never be an expert on is English...
No, it IS a "proven fact." This is what the Independent Tribunal found as a fact in its decision in the Sinner case, after considering all the evidence (and WADA is not appealing that finding). That is the mechanism by which "facts" get proved in these matters. The results are not then subject to an online tennis forum poll.
This forum is infected with the notion that because each outside observer has the right to decide whether or not to agree personally with the formal Sinner decision, if such mental agreement is withheld it means that no facts exist, just assumptions, theories, contentions, or arguments. That is wrong. Obdurate skepticism is not a privileged position.
They simply accepted Sinner's explanation as plausible, not as a proven fact. But the problem is that the explanation involves negligence on the part of Sinner's team. The only facts which are proven are that Sinner had Clostebol in his system, that he got cleared by the ITIA, and that WADA is appealing that resolution.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Given that you've just committed an argumentative fallacy, then "the only thing you'll never be an expert on is ... logical discourse".
I don't get what you are saying. Why is it too late? On the contrary, there should be no expiration date to the administration of justice, statutes of limitations notwithstanding. Guilty criminals are brought to justice decades after their deeds were committed. And innocent convicts are released from prison when new evidence shows they didn't perpetrate what they were convicted for.
On the contrary, if a mistake was made, it needs to be corrected quickly and in a public manner. And maybe next time all parties involved will be more careful.
That doesn't even make sense, Jason
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
I believe that's called an Ad Hominem, Jason. I thought you were an expert on logical discourse?
B
Bride of Alcaraz
Guest
Imagine if they didn't suspend the Sinner at all, then every cheater and his dog would carry that spray in their bag so if they get a positive reading they'll say "It was the spray, I'm just another Sinner!" 
WADA cannot afford to compromise. Make it a TWO year ban.
WADA cannot afford to compromise. Make it a TWO year ban.
That is incorrect. But it's a very popular misunderstanding in this forum, I will grant you that. I addressed this point in another thread today, so I'll just repeat that comment here:
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that part of the problem here is your confusion between the three-member team of scientific experts, and the Independent Tribunal, also consisting of three people, that ultimately made the decision. (The term "panel" refers to the latter, by the way.) The scientific experts provided evidence on the scientific plausibility of Sinner's explanation. The Independent Tribunal made findings of fact based on its review of all the evidence, including the scientific evidence. The IT decided the case, not the scientists.
Please read at least paragraph 109 of the decision in Sinner's case (you should really read all of it, but this passage is crucial). The panel of adjudicators determined that Sinner's account was supported by evidence sufficient to satisfy the applicable burden of proof. "[T]he Tribunal finds as fact that that the Player was unaware that: (a) Mr Ferrara was in possession of the Trofodermin Spray; (b) Mr Naldi was using the Trofodermin Spray; (c) there was any anti-doping risk arising from the treatment ...." (emphasis in original). It continues in this vein. Note the "finds as fact" language. This is unambiguous.
That's a not a "problem" for anyone other than Sinner and his team. It means that potential punishment is still an issue, and it's the topic of WADA's appeal. But it does not change the nature of the factual findings on the issue of the mechanism of Sinner's ingestion of the banned substance.
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