POLL: Nadal on clay vs. Djokovic on hard

Who is more dominant on his favorite surface?

  • Nadal on clay

    Votes: 121 89.6%

  • Djokovic on hard

    Votes: 14 10.4%
  • Total voters
    135
Invalid question. Clay doesn't count. A joke player winning on a joke surface because no one cares about clay.

d29c741aa18f2241fbaa5cb9011e37ce.jpg
 
Hitman said:
I have already said that Nadal is greater on clay, which covers that. But your argument to counter his is full of holes also. Double the clay season and Nadal will win more, but he will lose more also, his winning percentage would drop, because he would suffer burnout from going deep in a couple of events. He manages well between April and June because the period is just about right, if he went on longer, he would start losing more. Many times he has come into the grass completely exhausted, that wouldn't change if he was playing on clay, and more losses would happen.

If the hard court season was around the same time, lets say WTF to Miami, Djokovic would have put up some savage numbers himself.
Click to expand...
I'd be curious if this would actually be the case or not.
I'm way too lazy, but I suppose a simple analysis could be to see what Djokovic's winning % is at each hard court tournament as the year goes on. Does it decrease? Stay the same? Maybe even increase?
 
Tenacity said:
They are not claycourt players, neither of them, not even close. Djokovic tried and was close beating Nadal more than once, but again they are not claycourters. I'm not denying Nadal is that good on clay, but that still doesn't change the fact that he didn't have true claycourter agaisnt him ever.
Click to expand...

Red clay is pretty much the standard surface in continental Europe.

All three learned to play tennis on clay. Nadal is much better than the other two on the surface they know best.

Fact.
 
weakera said:
RF
Lost to world number 116 at Wimbledon 2nd round: ✓

:giggle:
Click to expand...

Oh yeah. 2002 is know to be Fed's best year. :-D :-D

Nadal had just won the Rome FO and was going to win Cincinnati Canada open and Us Open in 2013.

AO 2016 1st round
FO 2016 3rd round
Wim 2012 2013 2014 2015 2017: Rosol Darcis Kyrgios Brown Muller
USO Fognini Pouille.

Speaking of consistency, fed has reached consecutively 10 GS finals 23 SF 36 QF....
 
myth said:
I mean Fed and Novak are 2nd and 3rd in number of matches won at the FO mainly losing to Nadal. Nadal is not even in the top 10 in number of matches won at Wimbledon and USO.....
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In the Open Era he is in the eight position in both GS tournaments.
If you mean the all-time list, he's 4 wins to reach and 5 to beat Murray at Wimbledon, while at the US Open he only needs a couple of wins to beat McEnroe in the top 10.

And is pointless: Nadal has 2 and 4 titles in Wimbledon and the Open, respectively, so the comparison is irrelevant.
In contrast, the Spaniard is in the third position of players with the most victories in the history of the Australian Open and he only has a title there like them in RG, so the comparison does make sense with this example.
 
myth said:
Oh yeah. 2002 is know to be Fed's best year. :-D :-D

Nadal had just won the Rome FO and was going to win Cincinnati Canada open and Us Open in 2013.

AO 2016 1st round
FO 2016 3rd round
Wim 2012 2013 2014 2015 2017: Rosol Darcis Kyrgios Brown Muller
USO Fognini Pouille.

Speaking of consistency, fed has reached consecutively 10 GS finals 23 SF 36 QF....
Click to expand...

Nadal is the only male tennis player in history to win at least one Major during 10 years in a row.
Pretty bad, right?
:sneaky:
 
Overall looking at the field it's clear HC has deeper competition. At the top its stronger aswell.

but I think it's wrong to say Nadal has had weak competition on clay. Djokovic and Federer are excellent clay court players and Nadal has single handidly held both off time and time again. Nadal has had it tough aswell on clay but he has succeded to hold everyone off including giants like Djoko and fed for 15 years. That's too good.
 
Nadal based on OP's points plus:
  • Two losses ever at RG is insane
  • 12 RG titles, 11 titles at MC, 11 titles in Barcelona, 9 titles in Rome - more than Djoker's best 8 titles at the AO
  • Nadal has 26 M1000 clay titles from three clay events each season - Djokovic has 25 M1000 hard court titles from from six hard events each season
 
titoelcolombiano said:
Nadal based on OP's points plus:
  • Two losses ever at RG is insane
  • 12 RG titles, 11 titles at MC, 11 titles in Barcelona, 9 titles in Rome - more than Djoker's best 8 titles at the AO
  • Nadal has 26 M1000 clay titles from three clay events each season - Djokovic has 25 M1000 hard court titles from from six hard events each season
Click to expand...

No, he has exactly the same quantity on clay (25) as Djokovic has on hardcourts.

11 MC
9 Rome
1 Hamburg
4 Madrid (the other title he won there was in 2005, in indoor hardcourts).
8-B
 
RF-18 said:
Overall looking at the field it's clear HC has deeper competition. At the top its stronger aswell.

but I think it's wrong to say Nadal has had weak competition on clay. Djokovic and Federer are excellent clay court players and Nadal has single handidly held both off time and time again. Nadal has had it tough aswell on clay but he has succeded to hold everyone off including giants like Djoko and fed for 15 years. That's too good.
Click to expand...

FO 2017 2018 Nadal had no competition whatsoever. FO 2019 competition was back..... but the schedule lack of facilities and weather made it easier for Nadal than his competitors.
 
myth said:
FO 2017 2018 Nadal had no competition whatsoever. FO 2019 competition was back..... but the schedule lack of facilities and weather made it easier for Nadal than his competitors.
Click to expand...

Nadal is a weak 12 RG Champion!
:notworthy:
 
Last edited:
DSH said:
Nadal is a weak 12 RG Champion!
:notworthy:
Click to expand...

He's the best clay player ever. I think his best form was in 2008.
In 2017 2018 he would have probably won just as easily. But the truth is: He had no competition. Novak was out of form
 
Hitman said:
I know why this thread was created.

Really though, Nadal is so far ahead of anyone on any surface, this isn't even really a question. Nadal is unquestionably the greatest single surface player of all time when you start listing all the accomplishments.
Click to expand...
Rafa clay legend
 
Sport said:
No, I acknowledged that fact. When did I deny it? But it doesn't make Djokovic comparable on hard to Nadal on clay. 12 Grand Slams on clay in only one event >>>>>> 11 Grand Slams on hard in two events.
Click to expand...
Are you on Facebook I’ve seen your photo BECKO
 
I just realized something. We actually need to multiply by 4 for Djoker on hard courts; not 2. Hard courts for Serbians is twice as hard as it is for non Serbians. And hard courts for non-Serbians is twice as hard as it is for any other surface.

Using these completely scientific formulas, here are the most slam titles won on a surface in the Open Era:

Djoker: 44 on hard courts
Federer: 22 on hard courts
Sampras: 14 on hard courts
Agassi: 12 on hard courts
Nadal: 12 on clay courts

Longest winning streaks on a surface
Djoker 140 on hard courts(35x4)
Federer 112 on hard courts 56x2)
Nadal 81on clay(81x1)
Federer 72 on hard court(36x2)
Lendl 66 on carpet(66x1)
Federer 65 on grass(65x1)
McEnroe 65 on carpet(65x1)
Nadal is starting to look rather ordinary on clay now.

Let’s give Nadal some credit. He has 10 hard court slam titles. Given the fact that he had to compete on hard courts with Djoker(44 hard court slam titles) and Federer(22 hard court slam titles), we have to say that Nadal’s 10 hard courts slam titles is far more impressive than his 12 clay court slam titles.

It turns out that clay isn’t even Nadal’s best surface, even though he’s the GOAT on that surface by a country mile.
 
Sport said:
"Non-existent", yeah sure. Federer and Djokovic are excellent clay players and would have won 5-6 RG if not for Nadal. Or do you think Djokovic sucks on clay?
Click to expand...
THIEM dominates Djokovic on clay also how can the competition be non existent you make little sense
 
King No1e said:
Just because he's embarrassed Nadal there several times (LOL) doesn't mean he cares about it. He's a smart guy, why would he waste time on a completely irrelevant surface which doesn't even count in the record books?
Click to expand...
He can’t win it that’s more embarrassing
 
King No1e said:
Not embarrassing to lose on clay, which isn't even real tennis. What's embarrassing is not being able to win anything on a real surface like Cheatdal.
Click to expand...
Rafa has never cheated where is the evidence hating him isn’t normal clay is good tennis also no need to be ashamed that Djokovic can’t win more than one FO live with that buddy
 
JonnyBlack1 said:
Rafa has never cheated where is the evidence hating him isn’t normal clay is good tennis also no need to be ashamed that Djokovic can’t win more than one FO live with that buddy
Click to expand...
Djokovic has 16 real Slams. Nadal has 7. No need to be ashamed that NaduII can only look good on a joke surface that isn't even real tennis ROFLMAO live with that buddy :-D :-D
 
In all seriousness: Nadal on clay, and by a good margin. He has more clay Slams than Djokovic on hard despite there being 2 HC Slams and 1 on clay.

As for peak level however, it's closer. Djokovic 2011 could give any version of Claydal a run for his money.
 
Tenacity said:
Yes, you got me. I'm done.

I've seen people call Nadal HC ATG, which he is alongside Roger/Novak who are coGOAT on HC. That is more than enough.

I don't see anyone calling Fed or Novak clay ATGs. Name one GREAT claycourter Nadal had to deal with, not post some stupid gifs lol.
Click to expand...
Tenacity said:
They are not claycourt players, neither of them, not even close. Djokovic tried and was close beating Nadal more than once, but again they are not claycourters. I'm not denying Nadal is that good on clay, but that still doesn't change the fact that he didn't have true claycourter agaisnt him ever.
Click to expand...
I take issue with this point because you're basically saying Nadal is not that good on clay because he's too good.

Federer and Djokovic would have multiple RGs to their name and you'd consider both to be clay ATGs despite them having the same prowess on the surface.

Nadal on clay in this case is a bit of an exception because while in normal circumstances it's enough to look at titles to figure out if someone's good at a tournament / surface, when one person is so good that he renders the entire field irrelevant you need to start looking at other factors. Both are natural CC players whose clay accolades have been curbstomped into almost one hit wonder status because of someone who might as well have been created by the clay gods to play on the surface.
 
BauerAlmeida said:
Nadal, unquestionably.


Djokovic on clay vs Nadal on hard would be a better question.
Click to expand...
Still Nadal on HC.

6 slams on HC, beating the supposed HC GOAT on 2 finals vs 2 slams on RG beating a Nadal playing on literally one foot on route to one of his victories, the other one Nadal withdraws with a wrist injury before playing his third round match.

No contest either.

Next hypothetical.
 
ElChivoEspañol said:
Still Nadal on HC.

6 slams on HC, beating the supposed HC GOAT on 2 finals vs 2 slams on RG beating a Nadal playing on literally one foot on route to one of his victories, the other one Nadal withdraws with a wrist injury before playing his third round match.

No contest either.

Next hypothetical.
Click to expand...
Whatever, the fact IS, that Novak has 24 slams and Rafa has 22. Also, Novak's H-H vs Nadal on hard is about the same as Rafa's advantage on clay. Also, in that there are many more hard-court tournaments there are more players who are good on that surface, rather than on clay or grass. Therefore, there is more tough competition on hard than on clay or grass.
 
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ElChivoEspañol said:
Still Nadal on HC.

6 slams on HC, beating the supposed HC GOAT on 2 finals vs 2 slams on RG beating a Nadal playing on literally one foot on route to one of his victories, the other one Nadal withdraws with a wrist injury before playing his third round match.

No contest either.

Next hypothetical.
Click to expand...


1- There are TWO slams on HC, versus 1 slam on clay. So winning 6 slams on HC is the equivalent of winning 3 on clay. In terms of slam titles, they are equal. Djokovic has THREE, not two.

2- Djokovic has two victories on clay vs Nadal at slams and Nadal has two against Djokovic. So same amount of victories, I don't know what was your point there with Nadal withdrawing in 2016. Djokovic retired in the AO 2009 that Nadal won, equally irrelevant here. Both have the same amount of victories. Nadal in 2021 was not on one foot, that's just sore loserness and revisionism. In 2015, in any case, it was a less noteworthy victory since Nadal was playing poorly at the time. Nadal got a more impressive victory at the USO 2013, but that's just a tiny factor about many to consider.

3- What about Djokovic winning every big clay event and beating Nadal at every clay event while Nadal never won Miami, Paris or the YEC? Funny you ignore that.
 
BauerAlmeida said:
1- There are TWO slams on HC, versus 1 slam on clay. So winning 6 slams on HC is the equivalent of winning 3 on clay. In terms of slam titles, they are equal. Djokovic has THREE, not two.

2- Djokovic has two victories on clay vs Nadal at slams and Nadal has two against Djokovic. So same amount of victories, I don't know what was your point there with Nadal withdrawing in 2016. Djokovic retired in the AO 2009 that Nadal won, equally irrelevant here. Both have the same amount of victories. Nadal in 2021 was not on one foot, that's just sore loserness and revisionism. In 2015, in any case, it was a less noteworthy victory since Nadal was playing poorly at the time. Nadal got a more impressive victory at the USO 2013, but that's just a tiny factor about many to consider.

3- What about Djokovic winning every big clay event and beating Nadal at every clay event while Nadal never won Miami, Paris or the YEC? Funny you ignore that.
Click to expand...
I don't know if it's more funny or sad that Djokovic fan actually think titles like 2023 DO somehow make Djokovic greater. Or that beating 2015 Nadal is the same thing as beating prime Djokovic twice in USO finals.
 
StrongRule said:
I don't know if it's more funny or sad that Djokovic fan actually think titles like 2023 DO somehow make Djokovic greater. Or that beating 2015 Nadal is the same thing as beating prime Djokovic twice in USO finals.
Click to expand...


1- Winning titles make you better than not winning them, so yes, winning Roland Garros in 2023 makes Djokovic better than not winning it. Just like winning US Open in 2017 made Nadal better than not winning it.

2- Djokovic is great at Roland Garros, but calling the event Djokovic Open is a bit too much. I think Nadal Open suits it better given he won 14 times.

3- What's funny is Nadal fans pretending 2010 Djokovic was prime because virtually everyone agrees that 2015 Nadal was NOT prime. I've seen more Nadal fans claiming 2010 Djokovic was prime instead of Djokovic fans claiming 2015 Nadal was prime. In any case, most agree the win in 2021 was far more important than the one in 2015. In 2021 Nadal was not in his prime but so was the case with Djokovic.

4- Roland Garros is Nadal's best slam, by far. US Open is Djokovic's THIRD best slam. So making some sort of equivalence would be a joke. Nadal had a great victory vs Djokovic at the USO 2013, but zero wins at the AO and one retirement win at Wimbledon.
 
BauerAlmeida said:
1- Winning titles make you better than not winning them, so yes, winning Roland Garros in 2023 makes Djokovic better than not winning it. Just like winning US Open in 2017 made Nadal better than not winning it.

2- Djokovic is great at Roland Garros, but calling the event Djokovic Open is a bit too much. I think Nadal Open suits it better given he won 14 times.

3- What's funny is Nadal fans pretending 2010 Djokovic was prime because virtually everyone agrees that 2015 Nadal was NOT prime. I've seen more Nadal fans claiming 2010 Djokovic was prime instead of Djokovic fans claiming 2015 Nadal was prime. In any case, most agree the win in 2021 was far more important than the one in 2015. In 2021 Nadal was not in his prime but so was the case with Djokovic.

4- Roland Garros is Nadal's best slam, by far. US Open is Djokovic's THIRD best slam. So making some sort of equivalence would be a joke. Nadal had a great victory vs Djokovic at the USO 2013, but zero wins at the AO and one retirement win at Wimbledon.
Click to expand...
DO exists starting from 2020, when the organizers decided to make ridiculous changes which totally changed the conditions, and made them perfect for Djokovic.

Comparing 2010 Djokovic to 2015 Nadal is not serious. Nadal in 2015 barely made 2 slam 1/4 finals and was destroyed in both. For Djokovic, a close 5-set 1/4 final was his WORST slam result that year. And while I agree that for a big part of the year he played bad, but in USO he reached the final by beating Federer, and gave a strong fight in that final. Some even say he played better than in USO 2013 final.

Anyway, my point is that Nadal achieved on hardcourt much more during his prime.
 
StrongRule said:
DO exists starting from 2020, when the organizers decided to make ridiculous changes which totally changed the conditions, and made them perfect for Djokovic.

Comparing 2010 Djokovic to 2015 Nadal is not serious. Nadal in 2015 barely made 2 slam 1/4 finals and was destroyed in both. For Djokovic, a close 5-set 1/4 final was his WORST slam result that year. And while I agree that for a big part of the year he played bad, but in USO he reached the final by beating Federer, and gave a strong fight in that final. Some even say he played better than in USO 2013 final.

Anyway, my point is that Nadal achieved on hardcourt much more during his prime.
Click to expand...


1- Djokovic was better in 2010 than Nadal in 2015, yes. However, it was still his 2nd worst year post-2006.
2- Even if Nadal achieved more, which is debatable, it's not much more. At the AO, he won one title until 2022 during his whole career. He never won Miami, Paris or YEC. Djokovic won every clay event multiple times and beat Nadal at all of them. And it was only Nadal stopping him from achieving much more. Nadal had more losses to different players.
3- HC is Nadal's 2nd best surface, clay is Djokovic's 3rd.
 
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